HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #9261  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 10:09 PM
Atlas's Avatar
Atlas Atlas is offline
Space Magi
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,988
Some pretty good discussion of HB 98 happened on the subreddit a few days ago. It's worth reading through and it turns out that there are some pretty good arguments for it, imo. I'm not sold on it but my outrage has been tempered.
__________________
r/DevelopmentSLC
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9262  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 10:54 PM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SL,UT
Posts: 1,609
It's less egregious than it looked initially, but I still don't like a lot of factors. I understand the argument to reduce barriers for housing development, but it seems like a great way to ensure that big, beige, poorly-built boxes with horrible street engagement continue to be the norm. Not being able to regulate the materials of the facade or street orientation or windows seems like a good way to ensure poor quality buildings more so than we already have.

I can't imagine a bill like this would pass, but I don't understand how the Utah Legislature thinks most of the time, and they are dominated by developers and landlords, so what do I know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironweed View Post
Radicalism on both sides is ruining our nation.
There is only one brand of radicalism in this country and it has infected the entire Republican Party. The so-called "radical left" only wants fair and equal treatment for all citizens and for people to not end up on the street because they can't afford healthcare.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9263  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 11:01 PM
Boz's Avatar
Boz Boz is offline
of SLC
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boobs & Clowns
Posts: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob rulz View Post
There is only one brand of radicalism in this country and it has infected the entire Republican Party. The so-called "radical left" only wants fair and equal treatment for all citizens and for people to not end up on the street because they can't afford healthcare.
Save this kind of crap for a different forum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9264  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2021, 11:39 PM
scottharding scottharding is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob rulz View Post

There is only one brand of radicalism in this country and it has infected the entire Republican Party. The so-called "radical left" only wants fair and equal treatment for all citizens and for people to not end up on the street because they can't afford healthcare.
You're right, and thanks for calling it out. It obviously triggered someone, but it's time to stop pretending what's really going on in this country. And the infection is deep at Capitol Hill.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9265  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 12:03 AM
Always Sunny in SLC Always Sunny in SLC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob rulz View Post
It's less egregious than it looked initially, but I still don't like a lot of factors. I understand the argument to reduce barriers for housing development, but it seems like a great way to ensure that big, beige, poorly-built boxes with horrible street engagement continue to be the norm. Not being able to regulate the materials of the facade or street orientation or windows seems like a good way to ensure poor quality buildings more so than we already have.

I can't imagine a bill like this would pass, but I don't understand how the Utah Legislature thinks most of the time, and they are dominated by developers and landlords, so what do I know?



There is only one brand of radicalism in this country and it has infected the entire Republican Party. The so-called "radical left" only wants fair and equal treatment for all citizens and for people to not end up on the street because they can't afford healthcare.
This is or course how the left and right would frame it, but the reality is all people, by and large, want fairness and equality, but always have and always will disagree on what those terms mean.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9266  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 12:04 AM
bflatflat9 bflatflat9 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottharding View Post
You're right, and thanks for calling it out. It obviously triggered someone, but it's time to stop pretending what's really going on in this country. And the infection is deep at Capitol Hill.
Thank you.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9267  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 12:27 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SL,UT
Posts: 1,609
Sorry, seeing the both sides argument just triggers me. It's hard to believe that given what's happened the last 4+ years. I know this isn't really the place for that.

That said, awesome work on that map blah_amazing! I'm really enjoying just looking at it haha.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9268  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 12:30 AM
EPdesign EPdesign is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 863
How I miss Salt Lake City. It’s funny. It wasn’t until I moved to Florida that I really appreciated how many things that city does right. Even being able to go to a forum with actual updates is nice. I can’t wait to go back next month.

You guys continue on about politics. I’ll wait till we get back to development
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9269  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 12:35 AM
EPdesign EPdesign is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 863
Also...can someone tell me how to post pics on this thing? Thank you
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9270  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 1:12 AM
Orlando's Avatar
Orlando Orlando is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 4,122
/\/\/\
Download your image to an image hosting site. Then copy the BBC code. Start a post on here, and click on the yellow square button above, which has a mountain profile and a sun in it. Paste the code into it, and press enter.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9271  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 1:15 AM
Orlando's Avatar
Orlando Orlando is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 4,122

Hey guys, let's keep any political ranting relative to development only, please.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9272  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 2:31 AM
Makid Makid is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,089
Let's talk about a different form of politics...Transportation...

A Rail Line May Soon Head To Alta

Quote:
The idea for a cog railway serving a busy Utah recreation destination came into sharper focus this week when proponents unveiled possible alignments and cost estimates that suggest rail could help solve the growing transportation quagmire in Little Cottonwood Canyon. A nine-mile rail line to Alta is the latest high-capacity transit option under consideration for the canyon that sees up to 3 million visitors a year coming to enjoy two world-renowned ski areas and year-round recreation in an alpine setting just outside Salt Lake City. Proponents say rail could do a better job with fewer impacts than the other options being explored by the Utah Department of Transportation, which include expanded bus service, a gondola and road improvements. As an added benefit, a cog rail system, if it’s electrified, could be integrated with existing light-rail transit in the Salt Lake Valley, according to Mike Allegra, a consultant with the Swiss railway design firm Stadler and former president and CEO of the Utah Transit Authority. With 10-minute headways, the system could move 3,000 passengers an hour up the canyon. The run would take 19 minutes to Snowbird and another six minutes to reach Alta. Trains could easily move more passengers than cars, considering only 1,000 vehicles can travel up the canyon per hour even in the best of circumstances, Allegra told the Central Wasatch Commission Monday.
Quote:
The nine-mile line would run from a terminal below the mouth of the canyon near the famed La Caille restaurant to Alta’s Wildcat base area, rising about 3,000 vertical feet. During off-peak times, trains could make “whistle stops” at recreational destinations other than the Snowbird and Alta, such as the White Pine trailhead and Lisa Falls. The Stadler team outlined two potential alignments. One travels along the north edge — or uphill side — of the highway and the other along the south side, closer to the creek. The cost of installing a single track with sidings would be $345 million for the north-side alignment, and $267 million for south side of the road, according to Stadler’s consultant Newell Jensen. The north-side option would be more costly because it passes through various avalanche paths, necessitating the need to construct sheds to keep the track free of slide debris, Jensen said. The southern alignment, by contrast, would skirt around all but the White Pine slide path. “There’s a possibility that there would be an avalanche shed in that particular location,” Jensen told the commission. “Other than that, this line can stay relatively free of avalanche sheds.”
I wanted to call attention to this:

$345 million for the north-side alignment, and $267 million for south side of the road.

The current cost for the Gondola is around $450 Million to $600 Million depending on the path chosen. The current cost for enhanced bus is $350 Million. Even just adding another lane to the road is estimated at nearly $250 Million.

As we are looking at having transfers between any transit option and the canyon transit choices, a cog rail could be built now for the same cost or less than the bus option. It would also be nearly 45% faster to travel from end to end.

Once in place, there would be a big push to have Trax extended the cog line transfer point.

I agree with Hatman that Trax should extend from Fashion Place to the LCC transfer. This would increase usage not just for the canyons but also commuters going to the Fort Union area as well as Cottonwood Heights (6200 South 3000 East area). This has so much more potential ridership than a Trax extension from 9400 South.

The cog line would be cheaper than other options, move more people, reduce traffic, and best of all, support and create local jobs at an expanded Stadler Rail plant.

Because the manufacturing plant for Stadler is in SLC, I think that this can be discussed here as opposed to just the Transit thread.

Lastly, as I posted on the Reddit thread, the line could be extended to Park City. This could spur the speed of a future Park City to Tooele FrontRunner line. And we know that the line would benefit greatly from a restored and enhanced Rio Grande station as the gateway for commuter and long distance rail to SLC.

So hopefully this political thread helps entice conversation...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9273  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 3:02 AM
Utah_Dave Utah_Dave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 698
Cog Train

Makid, I recently read an article on Desert News and the Train was estimated to be just over 1 billion. Can you double check your source? Also, I do like that the train would stop at multiple spots in the canyon. Otherwise we will just be solving the resorts transportation problem heavily subsidized.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9274  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 3:56 AM
Makid Makid is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_Dave View Post
Makid, I recently read an article on Desert News and the Train was estimated to be just over 1 billion. Can you double check your source? Also, I do like that the train would stop at multiple spots in the canyon. Otherwise we will just be solving the resorts transportation problem heavily subsidized.
The estimated cost is from Stadler themselves. It is also based on estimates from Mike Allegra (Former head of UTA). This would put the estimate about on par or slightly over the actual cost. UTA hasn't had a project that came in over budget as they were cautious in their estimates.

Because of this, I would tend to believe the number.

One nice thing about the Stadler plan is that it would remove the passing lane on the road today and use the lane for the train. Because the train will remove a lot of traffic, the lane would not be needed. We could possibly see a road diet on a UDoT road if this plan was adopted.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9275  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 4:38 AM
Utah_Dave Utah_Dave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 698
Thanks for clarifying. A train or gondola would be pretty cool. I wish Ogden was able to make it happen with the base right near the Weber state stadium parking lot if possible
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9276  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 5:11 AM
i-215's Avatar
i-215 i-215 is offline
Exit 298
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Inland Empire (CA)
Posts: 3,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob rulz View Post
Sorry, seeing the both sides argument just triggers me. It's hard to believe that given what's happened the last 4+ years. I know this isn't really the place for that.
.
Both sides contribute to the problem. But they are faaaaaaaaaaaar from mirror images of one another. Each in uniquely stinky.

It takes collaboration to skyscrapers built. It takes collaboration to fix domestic policy. Every minute we spend fighting one another is one wasted — one we could have pointed to solving a problem. It makes me sad.
__________________
I've stopped caring. Good luck, America
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9277  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 5:20 AM
stayinginformed stayinginformed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_Dave View Post
Makid, I recently read an article on Desert News and the Train was estimated to be just over 1 billion. Can you double check your source? Also, I do like that the train would stop at multiple spots in the canyon. Otherwise we will just be solving the resorts transportation problem heavily subsidized.
I think the $1 billion would be the cost of also extending TRAX to LCC to connect to the line up the canyon.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9278  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 3:37 PM
airhero airhero is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 965
I'm veerry skeptical of the numbers above saying a train would be cheaper than a gondola. How could that possibly be true?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9279  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 4:10 PM
Orlando's Avatar
Orlando Orlando is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 4,122
Guys, c'mon, why do we keep getting derailed on off-topic discussions? Let's move this to the appropriate thread.

Last edited by Orlando; Feb 9, 2021 at 5:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9280  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2021, 5:41 PM
EPdesign EPdesign is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 863
I did see on the map the Tower that is supposedly to be built New District Attorney’s Office.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:10 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.