Atlanta Beltline - Page 61

Libertarian · #**1201** Posted **Jan 29, 2021, 5:44 AM**

There are great possibilities of creating community development and following from Beltline light rail. However I have several concerns.
#1 Should not create a safety problem or impede the pedestrians or bike riders. Consider the use of minitrams. The massive, expensive Siemens streetcars used downtown would be completely out of scale on the Beltline, in my opinion.
#2 There should be established a Beltline transit tax district that would put some of the bond servicing burden directly on nearby properties that receive the most benefit.

Street Advocate · #**1202** Posted **Jan 29, 2021, 12:14 PM**

“ The BeltLine Tax Allocation District was created in 2005 to provide a local funding source for the implementation of this major revitalization project. In this way it differs from the other TADs, because all increment collected goes to fund the infrastructure of the project.” -Invest Atlanta
https://www.investatlanta.com/developers...tion-district-financing/atlanta-beltline

Also funding transit is a main component of the additional special service district introduced by city council.
——
Presentation of new connection point off RDA in Westview:
https://beltlineorg-wpengine.netdna-ssl....tudyGroup_RDA-Access-Point_1.28.2021.pdf

Libertarian · #**1203** Posted **Jan 29, 2021, 3:24 PM**

You think it will get funding? What about those unwieldy Siemens monsters? Do they have an alternative?

Street Advocate · #**1204** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 12:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertarian

You think it will get funding? What about those unwieldy Siemens monsters? Do they have an alternative?

1) Yes.
2) I think you mean the normal sized streetcar that helps transport a significant amount of people as a mode of high capacity transit in the ROW and will be physically separated from pedestrians. And has time and again been determined to be the preferred mode of choice for transit along the corridor.

Libertarian · #**1205** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 5:25 AM**

There are at least as many folks downtown and around Georgia State as in beltway adjacent communities but they're not riding the behemoth Siemens mactrollies. It's overcapacity and overkill and the tourists and everybody else were not jumping on, even pre-2020. It's so expensive that the city can't even afford to expand the system. This is where my libertarian comes out...instead of doubling down on an expensive gimmick (which ATL can't afford and that by itself should raise everyone's suspicion) it would be better to junk them and get something more to scale which could mean more frequent runs and therefore more use. One thing that residents/taxpayers should realize by now is that running huge, expensive German equipment every 30 minutes instead of less expensive smaller-scale units every 5 minutes means that 90% of potential riders say forget it. Look at how other similar size and density cities around the world are dealing with it.

Street Advocate · #**1206** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 2:39 PM**

1) Atlanta’s Siemens streetcars were built at a plant in Sacramento. You’re coming across xenophobic, although you may think you’re being pro “buy American” or economical.

2) We weren’t talking about the existing streetcar, which has its own issues that have been hashed been acknowledged over the years. I had issues with the route when it was initially proposed and still do. Generally I don’t think crosstown routes need to be streetcar/LRT, but rather BRT with dedicated ROW and increased capacity. The existing streetcar route was duplicating of existing ridership sheds/transit routes and frankly doesn’t cover much ground beyond what someone able bodied could walk.

3) You live in Gwinnett, right? And you discouraged people to vote no on high capacity transit in your county. Just want to keep that top of mind for other readers who might wonder if you’re informed on transportation and economics or if you’re just a cynic.

jwbab · #**1207** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 3:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

1) Atlanta’s Siemens streetcars were built at a plant in Sacramento. You’re coming across xenophobic, although you may think you’re being pro “buy American” or economical.

2) We weren’t talking about the existing streetcar, which has its own issues that have been hashed been acknowledged over the years. I had issues with the route when it was initially proposed and still do. Generally I don’t think crosstown routes need to be streetcar/LRT, but rather BRT with dedicated ROW and increased capacity. The existing streetcar route was duplicating of existing ridership sheds/transit routes and frankly doesn’t cover much ground beyond what someone able bodied could walk.

3) You live in Gwinnett, right? And you discouraged people to vote no on high capacity transit in your county. Just want to keep that top of mind for other readers who might wonder if you’re informed on transportation and economics or if you’re just a cynic.

I also don't understand the persistent misconception that the type of streetcar used in Atlanta presents a safety issue or is otherwise incompatible/out of scale with crowds of pedestrians and cyclists on the Beltline. Basically the same equipment/technology is safely used in crowded cities all over the world. This image is just one example from Amsterdam which is much more crowded with pedestrians than the Beltline.

shivtim · #**1208** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 5:45 PM**

Westside Beltline Connector:

Unfortunately a big portion of it is completely blocked off for construction of Echo street west.

Libertarian · #**1209** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 6:21 PM**

Siemens is a great company and I'm not xenophobic - about 70% of my revenue comes from non-US sources. Let's be careful the beltway transit solution that is pushed as a fait accompli by the experts turns out not the best value for money.

Libertarian · #**1210** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 6:34 PM**

duplicate

montydawg · #**1211** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

1) Atlanta’s Siemens streetcars were built at a plant in Sacramento. You’re coming across xenophobic, although you may think you’re being pro “buy American” or economical.

I don’t think lib’s statement was ‘xenophobic’ at all. It seems that term is getting thrown around way too much these days when someone suggests we should use domestic products or support American jobs. I would certainly have no issue sending my money to Germany, which is a strong democracy with similar values to America.

It seems both of you, in your own way, are saying the same thing. Street advocated for BRT as being perhaps a more practical transportation solution over the current streetcar, and lib was saying he thought the Siemens streetcars were impracticality large for the future route.

While I agree busses would be much less expensive and perhaps more practical in the short term, I believe the line, when extended from west end all the way up to Lindbergh, would have much higher ridership, assuming they reconfigure some of the lanes downtown to give the streetcar more of a dedicated right of way. While electric busses using the centenary would be an option, diesel or natural gas busses would add a noise athletic to the Beltline which I feel streetcars be more suited.

I agree with street, however, autonomous vehicles are a non starter and are not practical for any mass transit application. You loose the economies of scale that transit has.

Libertarian · #**1212** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 8:22 PM**

Quote:

autonomous vehicles are a non starter and are not practical for any mass transit application

I'm suggesting that stakeholders consider some other midway solution between little autonomous toys and massive, out of scale equipment more suited to LRT, and not suited for frequent stops every half mile, in other words what is needed to serve the use including to take bikes on board. Siemens was a mistake for the surface streets of Atlanta (cost and size) and would be a mistake for the Beltway, my opinion. Look what other medium size cities are doing, even for longer distance LRT.

atlHawks · #**1213** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivtim

Westside Beltline Connector:

Unfortunately a big portion of it is completely blocked off for construction of Echo street west.

I wish someone would bike the path and put on a GoPro.

shivtim · #**1214** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 9:12 PM**

^It's a nice path. Pretty standard high quality PATH design. The southern portion has several bridges to maintain grade separation, giving great connectivity toward the GWCC and Mercedes Benz stadium. The path does go through a very economically depressed area, and oddly ends in a cul-de-sac that doesn't directly connect to the nearest street - although I believe at that point the trail extension will officially be the Beltline as opposed to a PATH trail. There are tree removal signs there applied for by the Beltline.

In related news, PATH400 from Lenox to Lindbergh is open, and someone did film it. The new section is from 0:33 to 1:34:

• Video Link

montydawg · #**1215** Posted **Jan 30, 2021, 10:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlHawks

I wish someone would bike the path and put on a GoPro.

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/lPtGiovdL6I

Libertarian · #**1216** Posted **Jan 31, 2021, 12:08 AM**

Quote:

And you discouraged people to vote no on high capacity transit in your county.

I merely had an opinion but the people voted

Street Advocate · #**1217** Posted **Jan 31, 2021, 11:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by montydawg

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/lPtGiovdL6I

I came here to post that! Thanks for sharing.

Westside connector is a brilliant piece of new infrastructure. Hopefully it doesn’t stay blocked off for too long. We need a better connection along Baker Street from the connector trail and over to freedom trail.

Lib, sorry for saying you came across as a xenophobe. Perhaps keep an eye on how you present some ideas- I’m not one to jump to thoughts like that.

I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised with ridership of the streetcar along the BeltLine over the years. Shit is no joke how many people visit the area, how many jobs are coming to the BeltLine, and how many people want to live along it. We’re seeing a massive shift in Atlanta right now.

And bring on crosstown BRT routes. Those will bolster everything on the BeltLine and support more jobs and residences in the core of downtown and midtown.

Libertarian · #**1218** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 5:03 AM**

Every rational human is a bit zenophobic or protective of home turf. I don't care who provides the trams, but they have to be cost effective pretty much immediately. Just look at the the downtown line. You can always upgrade later.

atlHawks · #**1219** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 3:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by montydawg

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/lPtGiovdL6I

Amazing, so much potential.

shivtim · #**1220** Posted **Feb 1, 2021, 5:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by montydawg

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/lPtGiovdL6I

FYI for anyone planning to check out this trail, the portion currently closed (blocked off by chain link fence; no way to get through) is from 2:23 to 4:43 in the video. The well marked detour is along James P Brawley (no sidewalks on part of this, but not much traffic), Donald Lee Hollowell (heavy traffic), Echo Street (no sidewalk but not much traffic) and Fox Street (no sidewalk but not much traffic).