Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[Acajack]

Southern Ontario and the GTA in particular enjoyed so much growth and wealth generation at one point, relatively suddenly that whole bunch of people ended up with lots of money without really going through the transition towards a true élite persona.

I think the Ford kids are the perfect embodiment of that.

In my younger days I knew lots of Golden Horseshoe types my age who were sub-achiever types despite being from very wealthy families.

Now, I'd caution about labelling Rob and Doug Ford too strongly as sub-achievers: one became the mayor of the biggest of city in the country and the other is Premier of the province.

Though in terms of what it really means to be élite, yes they are under-achievers.

Or perhaps my definition of élite is simply out-dated?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Or perhaps my definition of élite is simply out-dated?

I think Canadian elites simply don't stay if they achieve a certain power or status.

Conrad Black comes to mind. Wanted to be anything but Canadian.

Who wants to be a big fish in a small pond if you can play in the real big pond?

Edit: I think taste is it. If you don't like podunksville, Canada's a hard sell compared to London or Los Angeles. The Fords couldn't give a crap about the upper crust lifestyle. However, if you chafe at the relative backwardness of Toronto compared to New York, you won't stay in Toronto.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by wave46

Who wants to be a big fish in a small pond if you can play in the real big pond?

The rich families in New Brunswick say hello.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The rich families in New Brunswick say hello.

Those NBers are actually some of the exceptions I had in mind.

Montreal obviously has quite a few people like this. Arguably the largest concentration in Canada and perhaps one of the largest in North America. Even Mordecai Richler said as much!

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The rich families in New Brunswick say hello.

More like own the pond after growing legs and building a house next to it.

[megadude]

Agree so much about the lack of elite types. I worked for 7 years at a lifeco, but next to the Investments and Capital Markets teams. Met a several guys and a couple of gals in their 20s working as analysts or summer students.

Three of the guys grew up in Forest Hill or York Mills area with investment banking exec. dads or in one case, his CIO of our company mom.

Also sat beside the daughter of the CEO for a summer and she grew up close to the lake in Oakville. But her dad didn't have anything fancier than a Subaru and a Honda. Their house was actually a bungalow and her dad had a hobby farm up north where he actually did the farming.

Also trained the son of a doctor mom and investment banker dad who grew up in Maple Grove, Oakville.

None of these people gave off an air of superiority. Not like a British upper or royal class kind of thing. They spoke just like the rest of us. God, I hate listening to certain people speaking Received Pronunciation aka the Queen's English. The upper crust with that nasal tinge to it like the prof from Back to School:

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

One thing you don't encounter much in Canada, not sure why, is two bilingual people, each speaking to the other only in their mother tongue. I think it's perceived as rude somehow, although I've seen it at government meetings, on rare occasions and not for any length of time

I don't think it's a question of it being seen as rude. I think it's a question of linguistic power relationships. North America doesn't really have the sentiment you find for example in Europe where a lot of people intrinsically see other languages as being of equal value to their own. Sure, bien-pensant Canadians may pay lip service to that notion (somewhat emphatically at times) but the proof is in the pudding.

Two bilingual people in Canada won't speak each other's language? Of course they won't. They're gonna speak English!

Quebec as usual is the exception to some degree but even here the continental linguistic power relationship exerts its influence. To the advantage of English much of the time - which is a surprise to many who have assumptions about Quebec but don't know it. And even dare I say in some situations where French is the most powerful and dominant language, and bizarrely it's often like I am listening to the anglo-domination crowd, only with words in French.

Linguistic diversity doesn't come naturally to North Americans.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by megadude

God, I hate listening to certain people speaking Received Pronunciation aka the Queen's English

RP is meaningless, though. Chrystia Freeland, for example, is about as credentialed within the Anglo system as one can be.

- UWC Adriatic (a branch of the Atlantic College, founding overseen by Lord Mountbatten).
- Rhodes Scholar (as in Cecil, of course, and the creation of the Trust tasked with ensuring the continued global domination of the English-speaking peoples, up to and including "the recovery of the United States").
- The Economist (the bible of Anglo-American market liberalism and the LSE Fabians).

This is a very meaningful CV. Our Finance Minister was groomed by the absolute elite of the Anglo world. But she doesn't go around speaking RP. She speaks like a normal professional woman from Toronto.

A lot of the Canadian system is a bit like this. There are the families, of course, maybe 10-15 of them. But class power in Canada has more to do with the institutions you contact and are in contact with.

It's very meritocratic in its way, if you're content with the "way" circling tightly around the Empire that birthed us, and whose supposed ghost is still very very busy.

[kool maudit]

(Sometimes we still get bumped up to the majors, even)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

(Sometimes we still get bumped up to the majors, even)

Not bad for a kid from Edmonton! (I guess there is an inferiority complex in what I just wrote...)

[megadude]

Totally forgot to tell a story from my days of working for a company owned by one of the top 10 richest families in the country.

They were on the floor above us and the office is extremely WASPY. I'm talking portraits of former executives and all that. Very regal looking. But the patriarch, who was the chairman, took a cab every day to work.

His three kids all paid their dues working elsewhere before two of them came on board in senior positions while the other went off to do this own thing.

However, one of them completely ignored me when I saw him walking towards me at the same door and I held it open for him. I had also been in his office before for fundraising and talked to him twice on the elevator and at my boss' retirement party, the three of us were talking for a minute and at the end of the convo he shook my hand and said nice to meet you. He doesn't act elitist but I would describe it as being off in his own world.

And the head of the rival company to my current employer, who is massively rich, didn't just bring his son onboard. His son actually started as an underwriter and then became a manager at one of the shitty B lenders in my industry. A company with a terrible reputation. Still there as far as I know. It's possible he doesn't get along with his dad and went his own way but if not, it's quite admirable to see someone doing that.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/nova-scotia-...-on-roads-highways-and-bridges-1.5284355
00:56 and 02:06
How do you pronounce "Antigonish" again? an-ee-guh-ish?? The t is silenced??

[goldeneyed]

Montreal has various ethnic accents, in English and in French. These are two examples.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XgU1I0EYFA&ab_channel=MatthewGiuffrida

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTXR5uTNRv4&ab_channel=AryaTV

[megadude]

Being in commercial real estate at a firm that lends across the country, I have spoken to quite a few Montrealers.

If I couldn't see who was speaking, it was usually very easy to tell when it was a Montrealer of Italian background that was speaking, whether it be French or English. Same for Jews if speaking English, but I don't think I remember hearing one speaking French, at work or on TV.

The ones I do speak to at work don't have a Quebec accent to my ears. They could just as easily be from Toronto. Of course, I assume they grew up speaking English before French. Do most come from the west island?

For other ethnicities, I haven't really thought about whether I could discern who was speaking but could probably distinguish by race most of the time, unless they are mixed.

[goldeneyed]

Originally Posted by megadude

Being in commercial real estate at a firm that lends across the country, I have spoken to quite a few Montrealers.

If I couldn't see who was speaking, it was usually very easy to tell when it was a Montrealer of Italian background that was speaking, whether it be French or English. Same for Jews if speaking English, but I don't think I remember hearing one speaking French, at work or on TV.

The ones I do speak to at work don't have a Quebec accent to my ears. They could just as easily be from Toronto. Of course, I assume they grew up speaking English before French. Do most come from the west island?

For other ethnicities, I haven't really thought about whether I could discern who was speaking but could probably distinguish by race most of the time, unless they are mixed.

There's a distinct Italian, Greek, Jewish and even Lebanese accent in English. They are very similar to one another, especially the Greek and Italian ones. The Italian ones has more subtle hints of a Quebecois accent for certain words. But it all depends where you grew up. Look at this case.

If I didn't know this girl's name, I would assume she was Greek. But looking at her name, I can see that she's Italian.
https://www.tiktok.com/@jugrandoni/video...rce=h5_m&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

I still find that old-stock Anglos from places like the West Island sound different than people from Toronto, or even anglos 30 minutes away across the Ontario border. If you listen closely you can notice the differences.

But a lot of people also adapt their accents, depending on who they are talking to haha.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by goldeneyed

There's a distinct Italian, Greek, Jewish and even Lebanese accent in English. They are very similar to one another, especially the Greek and Italian ones. The Italian ones has more subtle hints of a Quebecois accent for certain words. But it all depends where you grew up. Look at this case.

If I didn't know this girl's name, I would assume she was Greek. But looking at her name, I can see that she's Italian.
https://www.tiktok.com/@jugrandoni/video...rce=h5_m&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

I still find that old-stock Anglos from places like the West Island sound different than people from Toronto, or even anglos 30 minutes away across the Ontario border. If you listen closely you can notice the differences.

But a lot of people also adapt their accents, depending on who they are talking to haha.

Quebec does have its own accent for English although it's not always a huge difference from what you would hear in Ontario and going West. Some words are pronounced slightly differently and there are unique terminologies and words, many taken from the French spoken in the province and because Quebec society has differences. There are ethnic influences that you mentioned as well of course such as Italian, Jewish, Greek, Irish, etc.. Some of the influences on English are American and others are because many Anglophones in some parts of Quebec have ancestors who settled in the province a long time ago so there was isolation and they were a minority community in many instances. I also cannot forget that the Indigenous communities in Quebec that frequently use English have their own unique accents, words and terminology.

[Innsertnamehere]

Even Robs house was in a good Etobicoke neighbourhood and is probably worth around $1.3-1.5 million today. It was a smaller 3 bedroom and not very well renovated though, so I get how it comes across as modest.

My understanding is that Rob wasn’t as involved in the family business prior to politics, so he didn’t get as large a chunk of the wealth.

Doug however was the head honcho for many years. So he pulled in the bucks.

As for the comments that he feels “American” - I believed he lived in Chicago for a fairly significant amount of time, running the American wing of the business.

It’s a different world for these upper crust families - the dynamics are very different in them compared to regular ones. The “patriarch” role of the one that owns the business is significant, and the general amount of privilege in them is remarkable. I’ve seen small glimpses into a few similar families.. it’s a weird family dynamic.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/nova-scotia-...-on-roads-highways-and-bridges-1.5284355
00:56 and 02:06
How do you pronounce "Antigonish" again? an-ee-guh-ish?? The t is silenced??

Not by people who I know that are from Antigonish. In fact, one guy I went to school with pronounced it "An-TEE-go-nish", with emphasis on the "T"... he was a character indeed.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Not by people who I know that are from Antigonish. In fact, one guy I went to school with pronounced it "An-TEE-go-nish", with emphasis on the "T"... he was a character indeed.

The only way I've ever heard it is "Annie-gone-ISH".

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The only way I've ever heard it is "Annie-gone-ISH".

Weird. I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced without the "t", but then I don't live in that part of the province - maybe some of the locals pronounce it with a "t" and some don't?