DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[coolmandan03]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Are self-storage units an essential part of urban living at this point due to the amount of stuff that the average individual has? I'd lean towards yes. Should a person who lives in an urban environment be required to travel via car to a self-storage unit?

Self storage isn't a new thing. In fact, the "Storage Castle" on east Colfax has been a self storage place since it opened in 1926 - long before cars were the norm. How is this development any different than that one?

Here's a great little history about it - https://denverite.com/2017/10/09/castle-...-marked-rich-renter-shift-cap-hill-area/

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

Self storage isn't a new thing. In fact, the "Storage Castle" on east Colfax has been a self storage place since it opened in 1926 - long before cars were the norm. How is this development any different than that one?

Like you really want to count the ways?

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Are self-storage units an essential part of urban living at this point due to the amount of stuff that the average individual has? I'd lean towards yes. Should a person who lives in an urban environment be required to travel via car to a self-storage unit? No, even though they are more likely to drive to such a facility.

We talk about putting everything that one needs for daily living within walking distance to create a 15-minute neighborhood and I'm saying that self-storage might be one of those needs.

^Exactly. This is the most intelligent thing someone has ever said on this forum. We can't just want the bright new shiny things, we have to take the mundane and utility right next door. 15 minute neighborhoods = fewer vehicles on the road, then transit starts working.

[coolmandan03]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

Like you really want to count the ways?

Yes - how is this planned self storage for a booming neighborhood any different than the self storage for a booming neighborhood built in 1926? They're literally 5,000 feet from each other.

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by laniroj

^Exactly. This is the most intelligent thing someone has ever said on this forum. We can't just want the bright new shiny things, we have to take the mundane and utility right next door. 15 minute neighborhoods = fewer vehicles on the road, then transit starts working.

LMAO -- so the goal now is to have everyone within a 15 minute walk of a self storage facility?

During the extensive East Central neighborhood planning process did anyone....I mean literally even one person.....mention self storage as a desire for the neighborhood?

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

Yes - how is this planned self storage for a booming neighborhood any different than the self storage for a booming neighborhood built in 1926?

Just riffing a few ways.....

1- 1926 self storage did not require housing to be demolished to be built
2- 1926 self storage was built in the modern day equivalent of stapleton, not downtown
3- 1926 self storage was not surrounded by buildings with historic designation (literally on three sides of the 16th and pearl property)
4- 1926 self storage was not built during a housing crisis
5- 1926 self storage was built when there was no shortage of vacant land in the city
6- 1926 self storage was not built in the middle of a traffic and public transit crisis
7- 1926 self storage was not built within a 5 minute walk of Denver's busiest public transit hub
7- That 1926 building really is a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵 and contributes to one of the deadest, least pedestrian friendly, and least activated stretches of Colfax. It is a great example of why NOT to do this. Saying 'look at this 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 building, it happened' is no good reason to do it again. And to be clear, the city agrees as current zoning on colfax prohibits another self storage from being built, because we have evolved since 1926. This lot is just outside of the mainstreet zoning on Colfax, but is still an utterly inappropriate location for a storage shed.

[mhays]

Walkable self-storage is certainly a benefit to many urban dwellers. Some will choose a drivable location (which might be cheaper) and some will choose something they can get to more easily and frequently.

Storage is pretty innocuous, and not the sort of thing that needs to be zoned against entirely. Mostly it's just a low-use use. But even while it can deaden a block, it can indirectly support a neighborhood's growth. Maybe it can be limited.

In a basic google maps search, storage places seem common on the fringes of both of our downtowns, and sometimes walkable to lesser urban districts. They're clearly not a necessity for an area to grow. But they do often follow multifamily growth.

As for supermarkets, yes I'd discourage single-use suburban supermarkets in urban neighborhoods. Those are prime mixed-use opportunities, with good examples in Denver.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

LMAO -- so the goal now is to have everyone within a 15 minute walk of a self storage facility?

During the extensive East Central neighborhood planning process did anyone....I mean literally even one person.....mention self storage as a desire for the neighborhood?

No. I believe the number one desire was to not change anything in the entire neighborhood, add affordable housing, maintain the single family home nature of the neighborhoods, keep the poor people out, add parks everywhere, and to make the entire place walkable. All while, again, not changing anything.

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

No. I believe the number one desire was to not change anything in the entire neighborhood, add affordable housing, maintain the single family home nature of the neighborhoods, keep the poor people out, add parks everywhere, and to make the entire place walkable. All while, again, not changing anything.

LOL that's true. So clearly this should be a park serving latte's for the gentrifiers.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Streetcars on MLK Blvd and/or 13th/14th would be a much more practical alternative than a subway for E Denver. 10,000 units is a fart in the wind of the amount of density you'd need to justify a subway investment though. I get why you want it, but what people want and what is practical or possible are very different things - then again, we vote for impractical things that we want all the time so there's ample precedent for your argument. The only data point going in favor of a subway IMO is the fact that streetcars running through all those SFH NIMBY areas wouldn't stimulate any additional dense development/investment because (just like the West Rail) all of those SFH owners will decry everything and try to fortify their bubble. The ROI on streetcars would be nothing in between west cap hill and stapleton (Central Park?)/lowry.

nobody is riding street cars when ubers will be a whole lot easier and not much more of a cost.

ya'll love to hype up trains, but new york 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and that's why people live here. walking to and waiting for trains with huge crowds in disgusting stations with covid here for the long haul isn't a winner. we're nothing like new york in terms of stuff, so it's a dumb ideal. we also have the space they don't.

anti car thinking is so 10 years ago. clean cars are coming. in time they'll be autonomous and traffic won't be a thing. it's time to look forward.

anyway, speaking of trains. has anybody ever seen somebody riding the train through five points? exactly...

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by rds70

Courtesy Businessden

this is basically the museum tower in charlotte

[BG918]

New tower crane going up at 13th & Sherman today

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Ride share and electric cars are going to be large components of our transportation going forward although the present economics are distorted by all of the external costs not included in the price of using those modes. Walking, biking, taking a bus, and using rail are each several orders of magnitude more energy efficient than even the most efficient electric vehicles. My interest is primarily in designing cities where you can reasonably get around without a car, and that doesn't necessarily mean investing billions more dollars in rail systems much more than simply infilling around the substantial system we already have. That's a much more sustainable, healthy, and socially integrated future. Lithium ion mining poses some serious environmental issues that we shouldn't ignore. We can keep cars but we shouldn't design the future of our cities exclusively around convenience for personal auto use

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

nobody is riding street cars when ubers will be a whole lot easier and not much more of a cost.

ya'll love to hype up trains, but new york 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and that's why people live here. walking to and waiting for trains with huge crowds in disgusting stations with covid here for the long haul isn't a winner. we're nothing like new york in terms of stuff, so it's a dumb ideal. we also have the space they don't.

anti car thinking is so 10 years ago. clean cars are coming. in time they'll be autonomous and traffic won't be a thing. it's time to look forward.

anyway, speaking of trains. has anybody ever seen somebody riding the train through five points? exactly...

All of your comments scream cranky, old, white Republican who's angry at the world because other people exist.

[TakeFive]

The problem is too many helicopters


Photos courtesy of KOAA

If it weren't for all that 'helicopter money' falling from the skies, then the stock & financial markets would have fallen over 20% (the official definition of a Bear market) and the real estate market wouldn't have been far behind in also dropping over 20% in prices. That would make Denver much more affordable; just need to turn the clock back a few years.

Governor Polis has the answer

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

nobody is riding street cars when ubers will be a whole lot easier and not much more of a cost.

ya'll love to hype up trains, but new york 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and that's why people live here. walking to and waiting for trains with huge crowds in disgusting stations with covid here for the long haul isn't a winner. we're nothing like new york in terms of stuff, so it's a dumb ideal. we also have the space they don't.

Speaking of 'helicopter money' RTD expects to receive over $200 million from the recent Stimulus deal; that's on top of $232 million that was received by last year's CARES Act. That's a lot of money for a system that few are using.

Polis ‘Extremely Concerned’ By RTD
January 22, 2021 By Nathaniel Minor - CPR

Polis wrote in a letter to Johnson on Friday, RTD has a “statutory and ethical duty” to voters to complete the FasTracks plan.

“I am committed to ensuring that during my tenure as governor and beyond, that sacred promise with taxpayers is kept,” he wrote.

The Governor thinks that $200 million in recent stimulus money could jumpstart the B Line to Boulder/Longmont.

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

anti car thinking is so 10 years ago. clean cars are coming. in time they'll be autonomous and traffic won't be a thing. it's time to look forward.

GM plans to end sales of gasoline powered cars by 2035
January 28, 2021 By Ben Geman - Axios

The big picture: The 2035 "aspiration" would put GM on the same timeline with the state of California, and an identical or similar path t0 several countries with plans to phase out sales of internal-combustion vehicles.

How it works: The target to make all light-duty vehicles zero-emissions is part of a wider climate pledge GM unveiled Thursday. The company said it plans to become "carbon neutral" by 2040.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Ride sharing has cut into transit ridership nationally and COVID obviously hurt. RTD has services with great ridership (A line, 15L, 0) and services with very poor ridership. I personally think RTD should focus it's service on popular corridors (i.e. Colfax BRT, 38th and Blake) we should upzone the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 out of transit adjacent land so we can develop more under the Union Station model rather than the Highlands Ranch/Reunion/Sterling Ranch model. I think places like Vancouver, Portland, Melbourne, Calgary, Vienna, Amsterdam, and Copenhagen are much more useful cities to look at than gargantuan metropolises like NYC, Tokyo, Shanghai, etc...

[TakeFive]

Politics makes strange bedfellows

Originally Posted by The Dirt

All of your comments scream cranky, old, white Republican who's angry at the world because other people exist.

Perhaps you paint with too broad a brush in assuming all Dems and all Republican's fit the same mold. Colorado politics is rather bland; not so much in the desert.

Dr. Kelli Ward serves as the Chair of the Arizona Republican Party. She previously ran for the Senate twice and lost both times in the primary. She is however an articulate conspiracy nut. After being reelected to lead the party last weekend the group proceeded to Censure the Governor for certifying the election as he is required to do.

The Party also censured Cindy McCain. Admittedly she had endorsed Joe Biden for President; hardly a surprise as John McCain and Joe Biden became best of friends as a result of their trips together to visit the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Joe even flew into Phoenix to speak at John's funeral/memorial at the Phoenix Baptist Church. Btw, my son's grandparents had attended Phoenix Baptist and I've been there a number of times. When Cindy was asked by the press to comment on Kelli Ward et al she said only: "You might remind her that John "Maverick" McCain was first elected in 1982 and never lost an election."

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Ride sharing has cut into transit ridership nationally and COVID obviously hurt. RTD has services with great ridership (A line, 15L, 0) and services with very poor ridership. I personally think RTD should focus it's service on popular corridors (i.e. Colfax BRT, 38th and Blake) we should upzone the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 out of transit adjacent land so we can develop more under the Union Station model rather than the Highlands Ranch/Reunion/Sterling Ranch model. I think places like Vancouver, Portland, Melbourne, Calgary, Vienna, Amsterdam, and Copenhagen are much more useful cities to look at than gargantuan metropolises like NYC, Tokyo, Shanghai, etc...

All I had to do was listen to Jenifer Lopez at Joe's inauguration to know the I already live in the greatest country on earth.

What's good for the city of Denver is fine but the Colorado Front Range will continue to reflect the long predicted growth from Colorado Springs to Fort Collins. I love the open space that has been built into suburban Arapahoe and Douglas counties. You can ride your bike for miles and miles while enjoying the natural habitat.

Different strokes.

[gopokes21]

Yes, Gov Polis is going to make sure that every inch of Boulder County is served by mass transit before any Denver neighborhoods get mass transit. We all knew this would be coming.

I'm all for different strokes but our transit system is like spreading peanut butter thinly over bread. We've had multiple pages of this discussion already but it's a joke that Arapahoe County is better served by transit than Denver, but that's how politics works. Unfortunately politics got us to a broken system that nobody likes, $7 billion later. Yeah it's great for getting to the airport or from a suburb to downtown, but Denver has needs to.

I think we just need a regional system with local systems nested within, and Boulder should obviously do its own thing - it will probably be better! Maybe we can all pay a small portion into the regional system (even though it's obviously for the benefit of everything around Denver) but we will need to free up resources and tax/levy capacity for individual cities to pursue their own systems. Counties should take over ALL local bus routes for instance, and maybe Englewood will want to waste money with a slow streetcar for economic development, but Denver's needs are just so different. It's a unique challenge of how to insert mass transit into a dense core (beyond just a downtown).

Like you said, different strokes. Or was that implying different strokes, funded by Denver?

[gopokes21]

What if there was a map that clearly indicated where Denver is dense and economically self-sufficient versus money pits for unsustainable infrastructure? Oh look here's an old bookmark that shows just that.

Amazingly, it looks like FasTracks goes literally everywhere that is not dense and nowhere that is dense. Huh

https://strongdenver.org/2019/01/15/infr...ers-are-heavily-subsidized-by-urbanists/


Source: Strong Denver blog

I know most of you want me to shut up and be thankful for 38th/Blake and Broadway Park but that is such crumbs after spending $7 billion (!!!) and we're just going to keep doing this again and again and...

And I'm triggered by Polis finally showing his cards for the one thing he wants. Good for Longmont and the transit-oriented ranches of Boulder County I guess...