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  #9121  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2021, 2:08 AM
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Damn. Just did a quick dive into the house - it's the Albert H. Kelly House and was built in 1884. It's listed on the National Register of Historic Places and considered one of the best examples of vernacular form of Italianate architectural style in Utah.

Such a shame. Especially since it's in really good condition by the looks of it.

Salt Lake really doesn't have any respect for its history. I bet in 50 years, most the historic homes in the downtown area will have been demolished.

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  #9122  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2021, 3:15 AM
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Thanks Mr. Rulz. According to that map, most of the road projects are outside of the down- town area. From my perspective, most of the cross streets downtown need to be resurfaced.

I agree with Comrade on that older building. I think they could put the new apartment on the corner where the Liquor store is located.
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  #9123  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2021, 5:57 AM
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Every parcel around this old house would have been a better choice. The liquor store, simply Sushi building, the Sheraton parking lot, the office buildings along 400 South west of 200..
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  #9124  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2021, 4:29 PM
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Hyatt Regency Salt Lake City - Progress Video
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  #9125  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2021, 5:09 PM
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Hyatt Regency Salt Lake City - Progress Video
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Guys, it just hit me.. we have been talking about the CCH for YEARS and it is actually going up!
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  #9126  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2021, 5:13 PM
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I'm with Comrade on this one. And it's worth mentioning that the other house is also on the NRHP and was built in 1865.

Are we really going to lose two beautiful 150 year old homes for a bland, unremarkable apartment building? Especially when there are a hundred empty lots around downtown? Can the city do something to stop this?
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  #9127  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2021, 8:47 PM
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I'm excited to see what they got planned. With demolition scheduled this summer, I'm hoping that means we will get plans this Spring.

As far as The Tavernacle is concerned, I understand a lot of you may have a connection to that place. However, to be fair, the building its located in is just a little better than a strip mall. If someone tried to build that same building now in the CBD everyone here would lose their minds. I'm hoping they choose to relocate, since there will likely be spaces opening up with some of the other places that have closed in the city due to C-19.

I think it is becoming clear that buildings 4 floors and under in the Central Business District are now on genuine 'notice for redevelopment' (except a few notable historic structures). At the rate we are going, I suspect a majority will be gone within the next 15 years or so.
The Broadway District, IMO, is one of the most unique and eclectic streets in the downtown area. No we wouldn't be thrilled is this was proposed now, but it is buildings like this one, and businesses in those buildings that make a city unique, rather than just a spattering of new high rises with a Starbucks on the main floor. They could easily build a tower behind and on the mortuary and still get the height that they need for the project to pencil out, while still maintaining what gives 300 S its character. For some reason SLC just likes to rebuild on top of itself. There are so many more places that a tower could be built, but developers don't think outside the box, they simply see a corner and say F whatever is there, let's just build there.

The developers could definitely get creative with the parcels. I've mentioned this before, but if they placed a dead restriction on the Tavernacle building they could apply for a midblock height exception and build between the Tavernacle and The Morton. Build the building nearly adjacent to the Tavernacle, with a walkway to access the rear doors for deliveries and they could even cantalever the building over a portion of the Tavernacle building.

For comparison sake, the CCH, just the tower, appears to be roughly 80' x 354'. The mortuary lot is 336' deep, and the total space between the Morton and the Tavernacle is 172' and the depth of the parking behind Tavernacle is also 172' deep, plenty of space for a high-rise. Put some thought into it developers, build your high-rise and retain the walkability and vibrancy that results in that area being in high demand.

Last edited by New_Future_Mayor; Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 PM.
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  #9128  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2021, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RC14 View Post
Every parcel around this old house would have been a better choice. The liquor store, simply Sushi building, the Sheraton parking lot, the office buildings along 400 South west of 200..
Simply Sushi lot is being redeveloped but the developers are taking the easy way out. They are building around the Simply Sushi building, because then they don't have to meet the 100' minimum for a D-1 corner. I imagine in a few years they will want to redevelop the corner but will argue that building taller than 100' won't match the surrounding newly built building. If the PC lacks the stones that they lacked with The Birdie, I'm sure they'll go ahead and grant the exception, and then we'll have one less D-1 corner to build on.

Agree completely on the demolition of the home next to the liquor store. Seriously you shitty developers have some vision and what makes a city unique.
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  #9129  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by New_Future_Mayor View Post
The Broadway District, IMO, is one of the most unique and eclectic streets in the downtown area. No we wouldn't be thrilled is this was proposed now, but it is buildings like this one, and businesses in those buildings that make a city unique, rather than just a spattering of new high rises with a Starbucks on the main floor.
Would you feel this way if they were building on the lot across the street with the tire store?
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  #9130  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 10:53 AM
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Would you feel this way if they were building on the lot across the street with the tire store?
I don't know why anybody would throw a fit about that. One side of the street has eclectic and interesting local businesses. The other side has a chain tire shop. I don't see your point.
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  #9131  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 3:09 PM
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Some recent drone shots of Liberty Sky, 95 State, and 255 S State/theBirdie/Moda Luxe in this KJZZ article:







The video is one of the better local news reports on development stuff lately. They even get a few comments from BSL's Taylor Anderson in there!
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  #9132  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 3:19 PM
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I am hoping the Lotus project will spurn interest in this area. This block, and the block directly to the west need complete updates and overhauls.

Other than St Marks to the west, the blocks are complete messes with parking lots galore and wasted space.
Wasn't there also another project about to move along just across the street from this. Also, there's a large very attractive project going in just behind the Masonic Temple in that ugly parking lot. I posted about it a few weeks ago. And of course the Hardison and upcoming major projects around the old Elk's building. Seems like the S. Temple blocks will be experiencing some major movement over the next couple of years.









.................................

Last edited by delts145; Jan 26, 2021 at 3:30 PM.
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  #9133  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Some recent drone shots of Liberty Sky, 95 State, and 255 S State/theBirdie/Moda Luxe in this KJZZ article:







The video is one of the better local news reports on development stuff lately. They even get a few comments from BSL's Taylor Anderson in there!
Awesome shots, loving how SLC is progressing. Looking forward for coming up to visit post-COVID and seeing all the new downtown activity.
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  #9134  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 8:13 PM
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I don't know why anybody would throw a fit about that. One side of the street has eclectic and interesting local businesses. The other side has a chain tire shop. I don't see your point.
I wasn't making a point. I was asking a question. You seem to have articulated your answer, which I interpret as being that you like the building because of the tenant mix.

And that tire shop, while indeed a chain, is a Utah-based company. But it is not very interesting, I agree.
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  #9135  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 9:34 PM
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Berkadia 4Q2020 Multifamily Housing Report

https://www.berkadia.com/research-and-re...egory%5B%5D=construction-pipeline-report

Berkadia has posted their 2020 4th Quarter Multifamily Housing Report.









Full List of Projects



The report is riddled with a ton of inaccuracies but it may still be useful to get an overarching idea.

Some things to note in Salt Lake:

#26: 21Lux must be the name of @2100 South's second phase. I couldn't find any images of what that project looks like though.

#42: This hopefully answers my question from two weeks ago about if the 508 apartments were stilled planned. However, it could be inaccurate.

#43: Inaccurate. 6th and main is under construction, not planned.

#45: Block 200 is still listed as planned, though I think most of us think that it has been cancelled.

#46: Inaccurate: Block 67 is listed as planned, but Phase I is under construction including West Quarter Apartments with 242 residential units. Phase II is still planned though.

#48: Inaccurate (likely): The metropolitan is still listed. However, we know from BSL that the rest of Violin Commons has fallen through, with only the Magnolia getting built.

#50: **TAG West Temple (850 S West Temple) Does anyone know what this project is? I'd honestly like a full update on all the TAG projects, especially in Central Ninth.

#51: Trolley Square is still listed as planned, so that's something.

#52: Sugar Alley has broken ground, though this may have been after they started making this report.

#77: Inaccurate: Diamond Rail is under construction.

#78: Inaccurate. The Exchange Phase II has been under construction at the same time as Phase I

#79: Inaccurate. As with the Metropolitan Building, Liberty Uptown (part of Violin School Commons) appears to have fallen through.

#80: Inaccurate. Lists Brinshore Project (255 South State) as 'State Street Plaza', which is the name of the failed project that was demolished.
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  #9136  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 10:26 PM
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Prospective Projects

Berkadia also some prospective projects that I had not heard of listed in the report. https://www.berkadia.com/research-and-re...egory%5B%5D=construction-pipeline-report



I also was able to semi confirm them from the Utah Housing Corporation's (UHC) 2021 Summary of Federal and State Housing Credit Awards. https://utahhousingcorp.org/pdf/federal_and_state_credit_awards_2021.pdf

I thought I would highlight a few of these prospective projects.

North Station Lofts (#96)
Location: 1955 W. North Temple
Basics: 1 building, 56 residential units (all 56 affordable). In UHC (page 3).

This prospective project would replace the old Wells Fargo building and would be fully surrounded by 'The Village at North Station' development.





Silos on 5th (#90)
Location: 425 West 500 South
Basics: 1 building, 88 residential units (all 88 affordable). In UHC (page 3). Likely adaptive reuse of the silo building, but not certain. Built by GIV Communities





2234 Highland Drive (#139)
Location: 2234 Highland Drive
Basics: 90 residential units.

This prospective project looks to be replacing the old S-Line Bicycle Center





Colony B
Location: 213 West 1300 South
Basics: 1 building, 140 residential units (106 units affordable). In UHC (page 2)

This prospective project was something I was already aware of and wasn't in the berkadia report, but it was on the UHC document so I thought I would add it. It will be located along 1300 South in front of the recently completed The Lucy townhouse community.

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  #9137  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Schmoe View Post
Would you feel this way if they were building on the lot across the street with the tire store?
While the tire store has history, the building no longer reflects that history, but more importantly it does not add to the vibrancy, walkability and character of the street or the neighborhood. So no I wouldn't feel that way if it was the tire store lot. To me the building and the tenants give the street character and charm, not just the businesses.
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  #9138  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 3:38 AM
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I want to start by saying I respect the differing opinions that have been voiced. However, I'm honestly not feeling this preservationism sentiment towards this 300 South strip mall.

For a strip mall, its okay. It's got a second floor, which is nice and it is oriented to the street with the parking in back instead of in front. But its essentially a strip mall nonetheless. As far as design is concerned, its fairly plain and unremarkable. I have personally seen far more elegant strip malls in the suburbs (I have definitely seen worse as well).

As for the idea that the unique tenants are what make it important, I'd say this is true with most strip malls in America. In fact, strip malls are often where you will find the most small and unique businesses in a community.

Take this strip mall at the intersection of 1300 South and State.



The building is unremarkable and (unfortunately) not oriented to the street, with parking in front instead of in back.

However, it is home to the Pacific Food Polynesian Market, Korea House, Mi Lindo Nayarit, Shanghai Cafe, and the House of Tibet. This means this strip mall has a unique identity, with unique customers, tenants, and culture. This can be seen in many strip malls in every city.

All the same, I bet most people here would be excited if a project was announced tomorrow to demolish it and turn it into a new apartment tower. I would even say rightfully so, because strip malls are a horribly inefficient and wasteful use of space due to their low density of development.

My problem with the defense of the 300 South strip mall is that it is entirely based on each person's specific personal preference. This likely comes from having a personal connection to a few places in the location, so an 'it must be saved' mode turns on.

The fact that some are fine with the tire store across the street getting demolished speaks to this. That tire store represents unique jobs and services to this location that would not be there if the building was gone. And yet, they are disposable while the ones you care about are not.

Should we never demolish a strip mall or business ever again to build something else simply because there are unique tenants? That seems absurd, and yet that seems to be what is being argued.



My overarching point is this: cities are change. Almost every building downtown that many here love was built on top of the ruins of another building that someone else loved long ago. It is how our world works.

As I said when we learned Pantages was to be demolished, I believe the goal of preservation in Salt Lake in the past should have been to dedicate everything to protect and save a select few key buildings of significant importance. Instead, a lot of focus has been diverted to protecting what seems to be almost everything rather than key buildings. When everything is important to SLCs culture, identity, and history, nothing is.

Salt Lake's historical preservation movement is now at a point where the fate of historic structures are at the whims of developers. If Pantages couldn't be saved over the decades, why should developers be expected to save 'some old house' (i.e. Bookbinder)?

Honestly, I'm not remotely surprised by this. As I said when Pantages was announced, preservationists from older generations have been too distracted trying to 'save Sugarhouse from the millenials' (my generation) or 'protect the avenues' rather than dedicate their time saving the buildings that truly matter to the future cultural integrity of the city. If they had started there, maybe they could have branched out to saving other structures of lesser importance in addition. We will never know.

And yet, here we are again. Talking about how the 300 South property is too important to lose to the city. I understand change hurts. I genuinely hope these tenants are able to find new homes. But this kind of foolishness is why Pantages was doomed decades ago. We will keep losing truly important structures in this city unless people start to realise that you can't fight change. We must embrace it and use it to our advantage.



It is also important that we wait to see what design they come up with. I agree with Comrade that The Bookbinder is a terrible design that isn't worth the demo of a nice looking building. This likely won't stop it, but still. Maybe the building the developer puts forward for 300 South will be nice and most will be okay with it.

Anyway, that's just my feelings on this. I understand many disagree with me (which is typically the case anyway) and I respect that. I just wanted to get my thoughts out there.

Last edited by Blah_Amazing; Jan 27, 2021 at 4:29 AM.
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  #9139  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 5:35 AM
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It really is hard to take you seriously when you compare the building the Tavernacle is in to a strip mall. It's by basically every fundamentally understood definition, not a strip mall. No more than the cluster of buildings between the parking garage and Stratford Apartments (including the building that houses BAR X) on 200 South.

So, I find that you're probably trolling a bit right now and not really having a serious conversation when you compare that building, which interacts well with the street, and was built 100 years ago, to a strip mall that has zero engagement with the street.

I think the sad thing about Salt Lake is that it doesn't have vibrant street life and a big reason is due to the fact that so many of these older, smaller buildings were demolished in the 1960s, 70s and 80s for parking lots and other modern structures. It created a wasteland of nothing for so long beyond the retail developments of Main and State. Once you get beyond those two streets, downtown is completely lacking in any older, historic retail strips. Instead, you have isolated areas like this, and the area pointed out above with BAR X, that exist on an island solely because, 40 years ago, some property owner came in and bulldozed half the block to build a parking structure or a parking lot or some bland mid-rise.

It's especially infuriating when there's still ample vacant lots, and more rundown buildings that could be replaced.

But whatever. I've determined long ago Salt Lake doesn't care for its own history.

It's remarkable how everyone keeps touting how many people actually live downtown and even before the pandemic hit, you wouldn't know it by walking the streets.

Anyway, here's a neat photo of what 200 South looked like between State and 200 East before a good chunk of these buildings were demolished in the name of 'progress':





Just remember, at one point people looked at a good chunk of these buildings on this street and decided demolishing them for a four-story public parking garage, and the garage to Parkside Tower on State, as well as a bland, three-story bank building was worth it.

It killed the street engagement and, even today, the city is still trying to address.

Just because a building may not look significant doesn't mean it does not have a significant impact on a neighborhood.
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  #9140  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 6:12 AM
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Here's a Legacy project. Who wants the beautiful Pantages Theatre renamed after them? I'm looking at you Zion's Bank

Aquire the land, or work out a deal. Demolish the buildings in red, and move the auditorium and atrium to new location on 100 South:


Like this:
Video Link

(Shubert Theater, Minneapolis, cost 4 million in 1999 to move about twice the distance)

Restore auditorium (taking advantage of 3D printing technology) and build a new deeper stage/fly finally giving the theater the capability of hosting live theatrical performances, a true multi-use theater. Work with the City to build an underground direct connection to Convention Center's foyer so the theater can easily be used by conventions. Marriott Hotel could also tap into this connection via a north south tunnel under 100 south. Restore the Dinwoodey Building and re-use it as both additional support/rehearsal space for the restored theater, and possible home for the Utah Opera or other arts organization. Zion's Bank will build their new signature tower (in blue), and a luxury condo tower can be built on the vacant parcel in arrow press square, with an air controlled skyway connection to a new parking ramp:


Rendering of Restored Pantages Theater in it's new location on 100 South, next to the restored Dinwoodey Building, and new luxury condo tower in the background (of course the CCH would be seen behind that). View from City Creek Center's Cascade:




Added in from my comment below:

The stage could not be expanded due to Capitol theater’s stage being right behind it/in the way. The stage was just too shallow, only made for vaudeville acts, which made it impossible to host most all theatrical shows, rendering the theater unviable. That’s the main reason the theater was never restored. You can compare the stage depths in the aerial images above. Moving the theater to a new location would allow for a new deeper standard stage to be built, making the theater a viable venue, open to a larger range of hosting capabilities.

And connecting the theater directly to the convention center will not only ensure it’s success, but also improve the convention center’s stats for available meeting space.

(again)

Nineteenth Century Palace Restored Using Massivit 3D Printing


https://www.inkjetmagazine.com/nineteenth-century-palace-restored-using-massivit-3d-printing/

Pantages Theatre in Salt Lake City, Utah, circa 1919:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=532833

Last edited by Old&New; Jan 27, 2021 at 10:33 PM.
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