Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[Architype]

Originally Posted by harls

Sounds like Jay Baruchel and Norm MacDonald conspirrning against you.

I can hear that Jay has a variation of a typical Ontario accent (Toronto? . . born in Ottawa, he grew up in Montreal), and I guess Norm probably has a Que Cy Anglo accent?

[megadude]

I don't know if Norm has an accent typical of anywhere. I don't spend enough time in Quebec hanging around with anglos there to guess but he does have a funny way of speaking.

One of my top 5 favourite standups of all time.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by megadude

When I say Doug could pass as a non-descript American, I'm not saying he doesn't sound like a Canadian, I'm saying he could be either. A non-descript speaker from either country, as in fairly neutral for a working class upbringing dude. Now he sounds more Canadian to me, but could pass as American.

And I would never consider that a strong Canadian accent. To me that would be people out west. I consider his a caker accent. A sub category we placed on older people than us when discussing with my generation from the GTA.

That home improvement guy I posted earlier is also Canadian (or Ontario), but not strong IMO in terms of a "Canadian" accent.

And yes, some of this is based on your own ear and POV from how you grew up.

Have the Fords always been wealthy? It amazes me that people who come from privilege (I thought) could end up sounding like Doug and Rob Ford. I guess, at the end of the day, education is key.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Doug Ford doesn't sound non-Canadian to my ear. Inasmuch as lots of people where he's from definitely sound like him. If that means that he has some intonations that sound American to some ears, then so be it.

His vowels do seem clipped in a Canadian way, for example he doesn't say "abaaaaaaht" like Americans do.

You forgot the "w" - "abaaaaaawht".

[megadude]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Have the Fords always been wealthy? It amazes me that people who come from privilege (I thought) could end up sounding like Doug and Rob Ford. I guess, at the end of the day, education is key.

I don't know if they were rich, wealthy or well-off when growing up. I kind of divide wealth into certain levels like that.

If they were Forest Hill type rich then you have more of an expectation they would have gone to St. Mike's and then a prestigious university, but we know this wasn't the case. But ya, if they did have that level of education it would be hard to imagine them turning out as they did.

The family business did quite well but it's not like it was some engineering firm. It's a print shop or something. Not something you associate with upper class elegance.

As I'm sure is the case everywhere, you will see many big houses driving around that have big pickups in the driveway with the construction company logo stuck on the side. Many are blue collar people that started out in construction and worked their way up (and taking risks) to owning and running their own crew and many becoming developers and landlords, not just hammering nails into wood. Their sons don't tend to turn into Justin Trudeau.

I actually know three St. Mike's grads that didn't even come close to fulfilling the expected potential professionally. Two are brothers whose parents are a construction worker and a bank teller. They didn't become blue collar types, but lower level white collar types are just barely getting by.

The other definitely had a well-off dad because he would come visit our residence in fancy cars. The kid was also definitely not blue collar. Actually he gave off a Justin type vibe based on appearance but was basically a lazy pothead playing video games and smoking his head off.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by megadude

I should be more specific when I say Canadian accent. What I mean is stereotypical Canadian accent or hoser accent. There are Ontario people I have met I would say have a Canadian accent, but not a strong one. Here is an example. I don't actually know what province this guy is from but if I were to guess it would be from Ontario outside of the core GTA. My best guess would from somewhere north of Barrie but anywhere in the province is fair game.

As soon as he talks you know he's Canadian and not American.

Good guy by the way. He has helped me out on his home improvement forum too.

• Video Link

That guy is in Saskatchewan.

I live in Northeastern Ontario and nobody in Western Canada has ever asked me where I'm from because of my accent. It's the same accent in English from where I live right to the Pacific Ocean. (unless of course you are Indigenous, Hutterite, Mennonite, not raised here in which cases it can be different)

A good portion of my family was born and raised in BC and there is absolutely no difference in accent.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Loco101

That guy is in Saskatchewan.

I live in Northeastern Ontario and nobody in Western Canada has ever asked me where I'm from because of my accent. It's the same accent in English from where I live right to the Pacific Ocean. (unless of course you are Indigenous, Hutterite, Mennonite, not raised here in which cases it can be different)

A good portion of my family was born and raised in BC and there is absolutely no difference in accent.

SK doesn't surprise me. My guess was north of Barrie, as in up in Northern Ontario. Of course, Barrie to about North Bay is Central Ontario so I don't mean like immediately north of Barrie. He reminds me of when I'm up at the cottage and I go to the store in Midland like Home Depot or Walmart or whatever and I hear some locals. Most do not sound like this guy, but I hear the odd one that does and it's possible they are from farther up in the province. I overheard one guy talking to the cashier saying "Down here is too busy for me. I'm from Northern Ontario and would love to go back". He sounded similar.

So N. Ontario and out west I can easily see as being similar.

I've only been to North Bay once, back in 2005, and was too drunk to remember what people sounded like since I was hanging with some Nippissing students, who are almost all from somewhere else anyway. I only went to Sudbury when I was a kid so that doesn't help.

How did you figure out he was from SK?

Edit: Just browsed through a couple more of his vids and the accent sounded a little thicker in those.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

When you get people who persistently mix languages within sentences, as the girl did, I'm left wondering whether it doesn't indicate that they don't actually speak either language well. You used to hear kids speaking like that in Ottawa, although I can't say I've noticed it in recent years.

You hear that a LOT in Timmins.

[lio45]

I have a few perfectly bilingual Anglos in my circles and when I'm with them, we alternate between the two languages in a way that's pretty much random.

The resident manager of my newest building (the one that requires the most attention by far, occasionally known on this forum as "my whorehouse") would be the example of this that I interact with the most often. He's Anglo, but fluently bilingual. I am as well. When I want to tell him something, I can choose to use his language (out of "respect") or my own (out of "convenience") and I can do either, depending I guess on the mood of the moment.

If there are other people around (especially if it looks like they might want to get involved in the conversation), then we'll use French.

[lio45]

Though I should mention none of us ever switches languages in the middle of sentences, like what you're talking about. That's actually weird. But within the same conversation, sure. Often it's the one whose language the conversation is taking place in that will switch to the other's mother tongue (out of "respect"/friendliness). If the conversation is long then this switch can happen a few times. I'll talk in English, he'll switch to French (to "accomodate" me, though I don't need that), then after a while I'll switch to English (to "accomodate" him, though he doesn't need that).

I suppose it would look a bit weird to foreigners. Though, being used to it, I would shrug if I witnessed, say, a German/Polish hybrid conversation from two locals on the interface between these two countries. I recall seeing that in California too. U.S.-born Latinos can often use either language between themselves.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by megadude

SK doesn't surprise me. My guess was north of Barrie, as in up in Northern Ontario. Of course, Barrie to about North Bay is Central Ontario so I don't mean like immediately north of Barrie. He reminds me of when I'm up at the cottage and I go to the store in Midland like Home Depot or Walmart or whatever and I hear some locals. Most do not sound like this guy, but I hear the odd one that does and it's possible they are from farther up in the province. I overheard one guy talking to the cashier saying "Down here is too busy for me. I'm from Northern Ontario and would love to go back". He sounded similar.

So N. Ontario and out west I can easily see as being similar.

I've only been to North Bay once, back in 2005, and was too drunk to remember what people sounded like since I was hanging with some Nippissing students, who are almost all from somewhere else anyway. I only went to Sudbury when I was a kid so that doesn't help.

How did you figure out he was from SK?

Edit: Just browsed through a couple more of his vids and the accent sounded a little thicker in those.

He mentioned being in SK in his "WHAT A YEAR, review of 2020" video.

There aren't really any accent differences between Northern and Central Ontario but they are certainly differences in mannerisms. There are cultural differences as well that have influence. Central Ontario is quite conservative whereas Northern Ontario overall is fairly left-wing socially, economically and politically.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by megadude

I don't know if they were rich, wealthy or well-off when growing up. I kind of divide wealth into certain levels like that.

If they were Forest Hill type rich then you have more of an expectation they would have gone to St. Mike's and then a prestigious university, but we know this wasn't the case. But ya, if they did have that level of education it would be hard to imagine them turning out as they did.

The family business did quite well but it's not like it was some engineering firm. It's a print shop or something. Not something you associate with upper class elegance.

As I'm sure is the case everywhere, you will see many big houses driving around that have big pickups in the driveway with the construction company logo stuck on the side. Many are blue collar people that started out in construction and worked their way up (and taking risks) to owning and running their own crew and many becoming developers and landlords, not just hammering nails into wood. Their sons don't tend to turn into Justin Trudeau.

I actually know three St. Mike's grads that didn't even come close to fulfilling the expected potential professionally. Two are brothers whose parents are a construction worker and a bank teller. They didn't become blue collar types, but lower level white collar types are just barely getting by.

The other definitely had a well-off dad because he would come visit our residence in fancy cars. The kid was also definitely not blue collar. Actually he gave off a Justin type vibe based on appearance but was basically a lazy pothead playing video games and smoking his head off.

The Fords have had a lot of money for a pretty long time. It was Doug Ford Sr who started DECO Label and Flexible Packaging in 1962 which is a pretty big supplier of their types of products for North America. Ford Sr was a PC MPP for one term when Mike Harris was Premier.

The Fords are multi-millionaires and it amazes me that there are still people out there who think that they are middle-class. I don't think that any of the family members were part of the university crowd which makes them seem lower class and/or lower income and blue collar to a number of people with higher education.

But don't be fooled. Premier Doug Ford did not have an average upbringing. He was and still is pretty elite wealth-wise.

[Sarah89]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The Fords have had a lot of money for a pretty long time. It was Doug Ford Sr who started DECO Label and Flexible Packaging in 1962 which is a pretty big supplier of their types of products for North America. Ford Sr was a PC MPP for one term when Mike Harris was Premier.

The Fords are multi-millionaires and it amazes me that there are still people out there who think that they are middle-class. I don't think that any of the family members were part of the university crowd which makes them seem lower class and/or lower income and blue collar to a number of people with higher education.

But don't be fooled. Premier Doug Ford did not have an average upbringing. He was and still is pretty elite wealth-wise.

Their accent was quite shocking considering their background and location. I first saw ''Ford nation'' on Youtube years ago and thought these two brothers had to be from somewhere out of the way or at least a small industrial city like Cambridge or something. I never guessed they were Toronto natives who grew up in a multimillionaire family. It seems that they benefited from ''Just like us'' - they did have a large blue collar following. They were very relatable to every Hoser in our province.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

Though I should mention none of us ever switches languages in the middle of sentences, like what you're talking about. That's actually weird. But within the same conversation, sure. Often it's the one whose language the conversation is taking place in that will switch to the other's mother tongue (out of "respect"/friendliness). If the conversation is long then this switch can happen a few times. I'll talk in English, he'll switch to French (to "accomodate" me, though I don't need that), then after a while I'll switch to English (to "accomodate" him, though he doesn't need that).

I suppose it would look a bit weird to foreigners. Though, being used to it, I would shrug if I witnessed, say, a German/Polish hybrid conversation from two locals on the interface between these two countries. I recall seeing that in California too. U.S.-born Latinos can often use either language between themselves.

One thing you don't encounter much in Canada, not sure why, is two bilingual people, each speaking to the other only in their mother tongue. I think it's perceived as rude somehow, although I've seen it at government meetings, on rare occasions and not for any length of time

[megadude]

Yup, elite in terms of wealth but lots of working class vibes in that family.

Rob's house below. And he was a highschool football coach on the side. Doug's house and their mom's house are certainly higher class than Rob's though. Though I must say, their mom's house has a mansard roof so really not that much of a step up in terms of aesthetics.

Actually, I remember reading that Galen Weston Jr. drove some piece of crap Dodge or something for the longest time because "it still ran". But he portrays much more of an elite image.



(Image: Daniel Neuhaus)


https://canuckpost.com/real-estate-in-ford-country/


https://canuckpost.com/real-estate-in-ford-country/

[esquire]

Rob's house was surprisingly modest for a guy with his background. I get the "regular guy" affectation for political gain, but it really doesn't seem to me that the Ford Bros. adopted those personas right before an election... they came by it honestly to my eyes. Just go back to Doug's hash dealing days in the early 80s... it's easy to imagine him sitting in a Trans Am with AC/DC blaring on the tape deck, throwing crushed beer cans out the side window. It's weird for a guy with a wealthy business owner and senior politician dad, but that's who he was apparently.

[Acajack]

I think this whole debate really speaks to the fact that in most of Canada (and indeed most of North America), you don't really have élites in true sense of the term.

The GTA has some people like that but really precious few when you think about its size, wealth and dominance over most of the country.

I am talking about people who are élite across the board in terms of tastes, behaviour, dress, culture and yes even speech and accent.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

Rob's house was surprisingly modest for a guy with his background. I get the "regular guy" affectation for political gain, but it really doesn't seem to me that the Ford Bros. adopted those personas right before an election... they came by it honestly to my eyes. Just go back to Doug's hash dealing days in the early 80s... it's easy to imagine him sitting in a Trans Am with AC/DC blaring on the tape deck, throwing crushed beer cans out the side window. It's weird for a guy with a wealthy business owner and senior politician dad, but that's who he was apparently.

Heh, thanks for the mental image. You nailed it perfectly.

People want honest politicians, sometimes. They can smell inauthenticity a mile away. (think Hillary Clinton doing a working-class accent or Stephen Harper doing the cowboy schtick)

Doug Ford is honestly Doug Ford. Dubya was totally Dubya. This should be a required lesson for aspiring politicians everywhere.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

One thing you don't encounter much in Canada, not sure why, is two bilingual people, each speaking to the other only in their mother tongue. I think it's perceived as rude somehow, although I've seen it at government meetings, on rare occasions and not for any length of time

This is incredibly common in immigrant families where the parents speak their mother tongue (wherever they're from) and the children reply to them in English (or whatever else). I'd consider the children's mother tongue to be English given where they've grown up but i'm sure someone will debate me on this.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think this whole debate really speaks to the fact that in most of Canada (and indeed most of North America), you don't really have élites in true sense of the term.

The GTA has some people like that but really precious few when you think about its size, wealth and dominance over most of the country.

I am talking about people who are élite across the board in terms of tastes, behaviour, dress, culture and yes even speech and accent.

We export those people.

Maybe that's a good thing? I get the sense that if we retained a large elite, they'd be the old-school sneering types at relative country bumpkins. For the few who think this country is ruled by the Laurentian elite, the entrenched elites of many other countries are far more dominant. The elite might look and sound sexy, but I don't think they're terribly benevolent.

It does help our relative egalitarianism.