The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't actually think heterophobia is much of a thing in Canadian society.

But what I mostly feel regarding this example is: sad for this guy if he feels alienated working amongst straight dudes, because the reality is that around 90-95% of people in society are straight and as a result society for better or for worse will always be heteronormative to some degree.

So if you're feeling alienated in that garage simply due to the mere presence of these straight dudes (assuming they're not acting homophobic), then you're probably going to be feeling alienated, and unhappy, for a significant portion of your everyday life in society as well.

So it's OK to feel "alienated" (think of the true meaning of the word) if one is the only francophone on a national board of directors for a Canadian organization? I've been there. More than once. I did not feel particularly "alienated". Though I might have if my English wasn't as good as it is.

Sure, at one point you think "hey man, I am actually the only Frenchie in the room", but then you move on. It's no big deal.

I certainly never felt this was a story for the Globe and Mail or Le Devoir, or that strangers would be discussing it on an online forum like we are discussing this chess player's story.

It's a story for the G&M because it's a fluff piece about someone doing good in her community. It's being discussed on an online forum because the anti-SJWs somehow found offense at it, exact words being:

Originally Posted by rousseau

How on earth is this acceptable?

Originally Posted by jamincan

You really have no — clue.

Well it wouldn't be him if he didn't utter something utterly absurd once a day lol

[Hawrylyshyn]

Started looking for summer jobs. So many of them require the applicant to be "female, POC, or Indigenous". Guess my gender and skin colour are more important than my qualifications and skill level

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

Started looking for summer jobs. So many of them require the applicant to be "female, POC, or Indigenous". Guess my gender and skin colour are more important than my qualifications and skill level

I highly doubt they're requiring any of these things and are more than likely asking for the sake of their own internal HR powerpoints.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I highly doubt they're requiring any of these things and are more than likely asking for the sake of their own internal HR powerpoints.

Nope, unfortunately it is a requirement. These are government jobs though so can't really be that surprised

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I highly doubt they're requiring any of these things and are more than likely asking for the sake of their own internal HR powerpoints.

Typically, it's a bit more than that, but not exactly "only groups XYZ need apply" as he is claiming.

Generally the targeted groups are "encouraged" to apply, and if someone from a designated group is found to be equally qualified to a non-designated person (ie a white male with no disabilities), then the person from the designated group will get the job.

[niwell]

I can't speak for the Feds, but I don't think I've ever seen such a requirement for an Ontario Provincial job. Either internal or external. I think there's a blurb about being an equal access employer, and certain jobs do require you to be fluently bilingual. It's possible certain Northern based jobs for Indigenous Affairs have a requirement, but I've never personally seen that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

The two of them look like they could be siblings if you're going by skin tone!

I can understand allegations of being tone-deaf if they had appointed some middle aged white guy to the job, but the idea a qualified POC doesn't have enough "C" is a questionable line of reasoning...

The new commissioner has responded to critics by saying "I can understand that some people are disappointed that the person hired for my position is not black..."

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Typically, it's a bit more than that, but not exactly "only groups XYZ need apply" as he is claiming.

Generally the targeted groups are "encouraged" to apply, and if someone from a designated group is found to be equally qualified to a non-designated person (ie a white male with no disabilities), then the person from the designated group will get the job.

More or less.

From the CHRC:

The Canadian Human Rights Commission conducts audits to determine if employers are meeting their legal obligations to offer equal employment opportunities to four designated groups : women, Indigenous persons, persons with disabilities and members of visible minorities.

In certain organizations, if representation of the four designated groups is lower than market availability in a specific industry, employers must implement practices that to demonstrate they are doing all they can to achieve equality in the workplace and fill gaps in representation.

Above all, employment equity is a matter of dignity. It offers everyone an opportunity to work and contribute to society. At the same time, employers benefit from a diversified and competent workforce, one that promotes inclusion in the work place.

Doing all they can to achieve can mean simply asking these questions on application forms.

I've been applying for jobs for 15 years and have answered these questions on the vast majority of applications and I, a white man, am still able to find work.

Pretty sure i've lost out on more jobs for not having sufficient French than for not being a woman/disabled/indigenous/POC.

Originally Posted by Acajack

The new commissioner has responded to critics by saying "I can understand that some people are disappointed that the person hired for my position is not black..."

One person, and Holness seems like a loon.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

It's a story for the G&M because it's a fluff piece about someone doing good in her community. It's being discussed on an online forum because the anti-SJWs somehow found offense at it, exact words being:

It's being discussed on a racism thread because a person quoted in a major news outlet (the newspaper of record in English Canada I'd argue) is basically saying that she is bothered by the presence of people who are ethno-racially different from her.

I don't want to make this a tempest in a teapot, but these words are hers, not mine.

The conversation continues on here because so many people argue there is absolutely nothing wrong with her choice of words.

If people's position was "yeah, I understand she wants more minority people to get involved in chess, but she could have chosen a nicer way to express that", the issue would die more quickly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

One person, and Holness seems like a loon.

Just relaying what's in the news, including CTV Montreal and the Gazette, so you know it's free of bias!

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just relaying what's in the news, including CTV Montreal and the Gazette, so you know it's free of bias!

Why didn't you relay this? Front page Gazette:

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-n...ue-vandalized-with-anti-semitic-graffiti

Westmount synagogue vandalized with anti-Semitic graffiti

Man arrested by police in connection with the incident was carrying a gas cannister, the Shaar Hashomayim synagogue said.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Why didn't you relay this? Front page Gazette:

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-n...ue-vandalized-with-anti-semitic-graffiti

Westmount synagogue vandalized with anti-Semitic graffiti

Man arrested by police in connection with the incident was carrying a gas cannister, the Shaar Hashomayim synagogue said.

Is there criteria or a scoresheet for what people "relay" on here now? I've actually posted lots of articles that make all sorts of people "look bad" on here.

In any event, since we have no info on the suspect so far, it's too early to say who will ''look bad" on this one.

So I'd hold my fire for now if I were you.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's being discussed on a racism thread because a person quoted in a major news outlet (the newspaper of record in English Canada I'd argue) is basically saying that she is bothered by the presence of people who are ethno-racially different from her.

I don't want to make this a tempest in a teapot, but these words are hers, not mine.

The conversation continues on here because so many people argue there is absolutely nothing wrong with her choice of words.

If people's position was "yeah, I understand she wants more minority people to get involved in chess, but she could have chosen a nicer way to express that", the issue would die more quickly.

Ms. Tuong's actual "choice of words":

“You can go to a place and not necessarily speak the language or know anything about the culture, but if you find another person who you can play chess with, you can enter into this really rich, intellectual exchange with them,” Tuong said.

In her experience with chess, Tuong has found it alienating to frequently see the same faces at the top of the game or even local clubs — which have been mostly those of white men lately. “I would like there to be a shift where we start looking toward the faces of other kinds of people.”

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's being discussed on a racism thread because a person quoted in a major news outlet (the newspaper of record in English Canada I'd argue) is basically saying that she is bothered by the presence of people who are ethno-racially different from her.

I don't want to make this a tempest in a teapot, but these words are hers, not mine.

The conversation continues on here because so many people argue there is absolutely nothing wrong with her choice of words.

If people's position was "yeah, I understand she wants more minority people to get involved in chess, but she could have chosen a nicer way to express that", the issue would die more quickly.

I would consider that a gross misrepresentation of what she was trying to say. Within the context of the article it is very clear that she is not bothered by people of a different race or ethnicity in chess.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Is there criteria or a scoresheet for what people "relay" on here now? I've actually posted lots of articles that make all sorts of people "look bad" on here.

In any event, since we have no info on the suspect so far, it's too early to say who will ''look bad" on this one.

So I'd hold my fire for now if I were you.

It is bizarre that you continually interpret these sorts of issues/stories as being about "making someone look bad".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Pavlov

It is bizarre that you continually interpret these sorts of issues/stories as being about "making someone look bad".

I only referred to that because that's clearly what JHikka was doing, if one reads between the lines. Alleging that I didn't post about the synagogue because it happened in Montreal (well, Westmount) because doing so would make Quebec (and by extension francophones) look racist.

Of course we have no idea who the perpetrator is or what his motivations (if any) were. It's clearly a hate crime but some people will be keen to point this out as evidence that Quebec (read = francophones) is a racist place.

If it turns out that this person is of another origin (perhaps one known for not being too fond of Jews) then some will argue it's proof that francophones and Quebec aren't racist, except for (wink wink) certain groups.

My point is simply that all of these assumptions and associations are totally absurd.

Even moreso in the absence of information.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I only referred to that because that's clearly what JHikka was doing, if one reads between the lines. Alleging that I didn't post about the synagogue because it happened in Montreal (well, Westmount) because doing so would make Quebec (and by extension francophones) look racist.

Of course we have no idea who the perpetrator is or what his motivations (if any) were. It's clearly a hate crime but some people will be keen to point this out as evidence that Quebec (read = francophones) is a racist place.

If it turns out that this person is of another origin (perhaps one known for not being too fond of Jews) then some will argue it's proof that francophones and Quebec aren't racist, except for (wink wink) certain groups.

My point is simply that all of these assumptions and associations are totally absurd.

Even moreso in the absence of information.

I'd say it's more that you clearly have some sort of axe to grind against people you perceive as SJWs.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Pretty sure i've lost out on more jobs for not having sufficient French than for not being a woman/disabled/indigenous/POC.

.

Well, that would make sense since it's an actual qualification.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Is there criteria or a scoresheet for what people "relay" on here now? I've actually posted lots of articles that make all sorts of people "look bad" on here.

As the arbiter of news from French Canada i'd assume you would want to carry over all stories that might relate to racism from French Canada, but perhaps the synagogue story didn't make the cut. It happens.

Originally Posted by Pavlov

It is bizarre that you continually interpret these sorts of issues/stories as being about "making someone look bad".

Only some people.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

As the arbiter of news from French Canada i'd assume you would want to carry over all stories that might relate to racism from French Canada, but perhaps the synagogue story didn't make the cut. It happens.

It's quite possible that the synagogue story might only be "from French Canada' in the strictest geographic sense, much the same way the U of Ottawa n-word controversy was technically in "English Canada".

I guess we'll see how the story unfolds.