601 W Cordova | 114m | 22fl | Proposed

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

He wants to build a public square but doesn't realize the imaginary buildings in front on the central hub. A true visionary.

This guy has a massive ego. He writes this diatribe about "Station Square" (that's the name he gave the parking lot in the book that no one has ever read). He goes full on with this narrative about this fictional square (basically a rehash of his 2015 and 2020 letters) and he's so fixated on this BS story about converting a fossil fuel polluting parking lot into a public space.

The heritage commission and the groups fighting this project are not just fighting the one tower, they don't want to see ANY towers in the area. 555 Cordova is just the first to come so it's taking the brunt of the fight.

[Feathered Friend]

The group opposed to this office building presented to the Vancouver City Planning Commission today, but unfortunately I had to leave before the meeting finished (sadly right when Pete Fry was starting to ask questions) so I will be unable to do a full recap.

That said, there were some interesting tidbits. They admitted they're mostly a group of old planners and architects whose immediate goal is to stand in the way of any development in the area. The founder, Ray Spaxman, has built the membership nearly singlehandedly, and claims that if he were still in charge he would have never accepted the proposal.

They also believe that city staff are only listening / working with the Port of Vancouver, and feel that the Downtown BIA has betrayed them because Cadillac Fairview is a "big fish."

Their immediate focus is to continue to build media coverage to kill the DP. In their own words, they feel it's shortsighted to say new office space is always good, and feel that the city probably doesn't need anymore anyways, as there is currently an unprecedented amount.

The medium term goal would be to pressure the province, feds, or Translink to purchase the site, and they've even written Catherine McKenna to that end. In the long term, they hope the Feds will tell the Port of Vancouver to abandon the railyards, and get out of Downtown, though they don't want a soccer stadium to be built, or any significant height / density.

[jollyburger]

That's visionary.





I doubt Translink wants anything to do with Waterfront Station and if anything they need federal/provincial money for new lines/replacement cars/buses than any station improvements.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

Wow - misleading posters or what?

"Requests of ..." means (or at least can mean) "Requests from..."

It should read "Requests TO ..."

BTW - came across pics of

Zaha Hadid's Antwerp Port House
(Port Authority Building):


https://www.archdaily.com/795832/antwerp-port-house-zaha-hadid-architects


https://www.archdaily.com/795832/antwerp-port-house-zaha-hadid-architects


https://www.archdaily.com/795832/antwerp-port-house-zaha-hadid-architects


https://www.archdaily.com/795832/antwerp-port-house-zaha-hadid-architects


https://www.archdaily.com/795832/antwerp-port-house-zaha-hadid-architects


https://www.archdaily.com/795832/antwerp-port-house-zaha-hadid-architects


https://www.archdaily.com/795832/antwerp-port-house-zaha-hadid-architects

[Migrant_Coconut]

My favourite part is how the poster uses the one specific render angle that hides the plaza that's already being planned:

(VancouverIsAwesome)

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

Their immediate focus is to continue to build media coverage to kill the DP. In their own words, they feel it's shortsighted to say new office space is always good, and feel that the city probably doesn't need anymore anyways, as there is currently an unprecedented amount.

Yeah because a 4.7% office vacancy rate during COVID indicates that we don't need more office space. Have they no grasp of basic economics ? Offices = jobs (or at least in this economy it does, apparently).

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by scryer

Yeah because a 4.7% office vacancy rate during COVID indicates that we don't need more office space. Have they no grasp of basic economics ? Offices = jobs (or at least in this economy it does, apparently).

There is currently just under 4 million square feet of "new" space under construction downtown, the vacancy rate is expected to go into double digits once they are finished.

[osirisboy]

Does an application need approval of the heritage people in order to get approved by the city? Or is it like the Udp?

This is getting ridiculous at this point.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

There is currently just under 4 million square feet of "new" space under construction downtown, the vacancy rate is expected to go into double digits once they are finished.

I haven't seen that suggested in any brokers reports. Vacancy Downtown is currently 4.9%, which only increased from 4.7% in the previous quarter, so it's not rising fast at the moment.

About 65% of the space under construction has been pre-leased - so around 1.3 million is under construction, and not yet leased. Currently there's 1.6m square feet vacant. (Colliers, Q4 2020) To get to 10% vacancy, once those are completed, would require nearly 2 million square feet of additional vacant space.

For that to occur, nothing more currently under construction would be leased in the three years it'll take for them to be built, and an extra 700,000 sq. ft. would have to be vacated. That's by no means impossible, if markets fall, but only the most pessimistic observers would 'expect' that to be the case. A higher vacancy rate, in the short term, is a reasonable expectation.

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I haven't seen that suggested in any brokers reports. Vacancy Downtown is currently 4.9%, which only increased from 4.7% in the previous quarter, so it's not rising fast at the moment.

About 65% of the space under construction has been pre-leased - so around 1.3 million is under construction, and not yet leased. Currently there's 1.6m square feet vacant. (Colliers, Q4 2020) To get to 10% vacancy, once those are completed, would require nearly 2 million square feet of additional vacant space.

For that to occur, nothing more currently under construction would be leased in the three years it'll take for them to be built, and an extra 700,000 sq. ft. would have to be vacated. That's by no means impossible, if markets fall, but only the most pessimistic observers would 'expect' that to be the case. A higher vacancy rate, in the short term, is a reasonable expectation.

Nearly 4.8 million sq ft of new office space is currently under construction, including 3.5 million sq ft in downtown and 1.27 million sq ft in the suburbs. Most of this construction began well before the pandemic, but some projects also began over the quarter. Pre-leased doesn't mean it wont be available

The commercial agency reports that the number of subleases has increased from 37 at the end of 2019 to 90 this month, representing more than 500,000 square feet of space, as a direct result of the pandemic.

“The first real shockwaves to hit the market were delivered via the downtown Vancouver sublease market. Uncertainty pushed some tenants to withhold from moving forward with leasing contracts, with some refusing to take occupancy. This has resulted in a proliferation of subleasing activity,” the June 15 report stated.

[GenWhy?]

Is Spax and his group really advocating for a private lot of land to be expropriated for a public plaza that overlooks a giant railyard?

[s211]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Is Spax and his group really advocating for a private lot of land to be expropriated for a public plaza that overlooks a giant railyard?

"That'd be one 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 expensive parklet" was my first thought.

[jollyburger]

They've come from the future and are trying to save CF from losing money on an office building project?

CBRE Office Market Update:

• Rising for the third consecutive
quarter, overall office vacancy in
Metro Vancouver reached 6.2%
in Q4 and surpassed the 6.0%
mark for the first time since Q1
2018. Tenants remain optimistic
however, with many occupiers
beginning to discuss their return
to work plans leading into 2021.
• Primarily driven by an increase
in direct space, the downtown
vacancy rate rose by 120 bps
quarter-over-quarter to 5.8%, the
highest recorded figure since Q2
2017. Overall leasing remains
subdued, however deals are still
taking place. Despite all this,
Vancouver’s title as one of the
tightest and most competitive
downtown office marketplaces
remains intact.
• Driven by the Broadway Corridor
and Burnaby submarkets,
Vancouver’s suburban vacancy
rate increased by 130 bps this
quarter to 6.6% in Q4 2020. Most
of this change can be attributed
to two large vacancies at 1077
Great Northern Way, where MEC
surrendered their lease on the
building, and 4555 Kingsway,
where five contiguous floors are
available for sublease.
• On the development front, no
new projects were delivered this
quarter. Construction on the
current phase of developments
continues, with four projects
slated for 2021 delivery already
100% pre-leased.

https://www.cbre.ca/en/about/media-cente...d-record-setting-industrial-performances

Also, if there is no need for offices then screw their Waterfront Hub vision.

[whatnext]

There's been a lot of focus on what effect WFH is going to have on the office market but I wonder how much thought has been given to the likelihood that Biden will roll back a lot of restrictions Trump slapped on skilled visa workers. It's no secret Canada benefitted from Trump's stupidity as tech companies brought in skilled foreign workers to Canada rather than the USA. If that demand disappears, how much is needed downtown.

[LeftCoaster]

I agree, immigration reform in the US has the potential to be a much bigger impact than work from home IMO.

Many companies are now seeing productivity drops in work from home as people develop new bad habits at home and are more comfortable with the set up.

I expect a lot of work from home privileges to be removed or majorly restricted when Covid is over.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

The group opposed to this office building presented to the Vancouver City Planning Commission today, but unfortunately I had to leave before the meeting finished (sadly right when Pete Fry was starting to ask questions) so I will be unable to do a full recap.

That said, there were some interesting tidbits. They admitted they're mostly a group of old planners and architects whose immediate goal is to stand in the way of any development in the area. The founder, Ray Spaxman, has built the membership nearly singlehandedly, and claims that if he were still in charge he would have never accepted the proposal.

They also believe that city staff are only listening / working with the Port of Vancouver, and feel that the Downtown BIA has betrayed them because Cadillac Fairview is a "big fish."

Their immediate focus is to continue to build media coverage to kill the DP. In their own words, they feel it's shortsighted to say new office space is always good, and feel that the city probably doesn't need anymore anyways, as there is currently an unprecedented amount.

The medium term goal would be to pressure the province, feds, or Translink to purchase the site, and they've even written Catherine McKenna to that end. In the long term, they hope the Feds will tell the Port of Vancouver to abandon the railyards, and get out of Downtown, though they don't want a soccer stadium to be built, or any significant height / density.

If he were still in charge

He was fired in 1989 and hasn't been professionally employed since.... and it shows.

This group are the NIMBYs of all NIMBYs and are fighting projects all over the City. They represent and are made up of the biggest proponents of the "Village of Vancouver" and will continue to fight progress on sites across the City. Ray after all has published articles stating how 3.0 FSR is the maximum residential density needed and how iconic architecture is ruining Vancouver.

As a side note Ray Spaxman doesn't even live in Vancouver... he lives in suburban West Van, but he still feels entitled to tell the City and it's residents how to live.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by s211

"That'd be one 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 expensive parklet" was my first thought.

Yup.

Ray doesn't care though, since he hasn't paid income tax for 30 years isn't even a City of Vancouver tax payer to boot.

It's amazing how little the retired or those who already "have theirs" care about those who still need to make a living or find a place to live in this City.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I agree, immigration reform in the US has the potential to be a much bigger impact than work from home IMO.

Many companies are now seeing productivity drops in work from home as people develop new bad habits at home and are more comfortable with the set up.

I expect a lot of work from home privileges to be removed or majorly restricted when Covid is over.

Do you have a sense of how much of Vancouver's office growth has come from US companies looking to set up here because of the US immigration issue? I can think of Apple establishing a modest office, and obviously Microsoft have expanded - but they were doing that in the last Democrat-run period, so that's not necessarily related to immigration in the US. Amazon are the obvious new big player in town, but they're already looking to expand outside Seattle, and there's no reason to think they wouldn't find Vancouver a good place to add an operation anyway.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Yup.

Ray doesn't care though, since he hasn't paid income tax for 30 years isn't even a City of Vancouver tax payer to boot.

It's amazing how little the retired or those who already "have theirs" care about those who still need to make a living or find a place to live in this City.

I guess the onus is on Cadilac Fairview to figure a way to push this project through if they want to get it built. I don't know the minutiae of Vancouver politics but I assume it's an uphill battle at this point.

I think it's people who get some credit for their past work who lose a bit of sense of reality about how cities operate. The worse part is that they pretend to be inclusive in listening to voices of the community but are the biggest and "my opinion or the highway" blowhards.

[jollyburger]

Excerpt from Spaxman's thoughts on 555 Cordova from 2015.

Today it provides several of the few really good urban sequences in our young city. Try walking into the entrance to the CPR station from the upper plaza on its west side. You will pass from the brightly day-lighted plaza with its spectacular mountain views into a fine stairway leading down into the station. As you take the steps down, you will experience the descent into the really grand reception hall of the old station.

While not as grand as Grand Central in New York, nor Union Station in Toronto, it is a happier, more colourful place. It has the humane architectural detailing of its century-old styling. It also throbs at times with the crowds of different people passing between their numerous origins and destinations. Weaving through the throngs of people and past the ticket booths and coffee shops, you can either turn south and go out by the grand entrance or proceed easterly along the wide corridor to the easterly exit.

They overplay the "status quo" since it meets their narrative about why nothing should be done at 555 West Cordova. Of course they don't want to be called insane and compare it to Grand Central Station, but just throwing out that it's somehow similar because they both at one time had passenger trains servicing them. How any of the above relates to 555 West Cordova? Yeah, maybe he'll figure out how that fits in later on in the article.

As you exit you may feel the sense of pleasure (sorry about the parking lot!) at moving from the enclosed corridor out into wide open fresh air and sunshine and one of the more spectacular views this lovely city has to offer to visitors and residents. As a bonus you will also note the fine facade of the Landing, another exceptional piece of architecture in our city, that announces the presence of our founding neighbourhood—Gastown.

This is where the Martian intends to land. If it lands as proposed it will obliterate this open space, the expanse of the Landing facade, and the view and leave a mean, winding passageway entrance into the station concourse.

But also see this. Look around and you will notice some very special features along this side of Cordova Street. Here are some of them. Firstly notice the scale of the buildings at this location. There is the grand scale of the station with its classical entrance porticos, the warm brick and careful detailing that is comfortable to the humans that walk past, as are the retail stores and restaurants. The war memorial sculpture is perfectly located at the transition to the open space, currently the parking lot. The east side of the building works with the Landing to create one of the great missed opportunities in the city—a real urban square. The Landing and the station encloses and define a space that is uniquely perfect for a small urban square. A square with two fine architectural sides and a spectacular view to the north.

I would say the opposite. The East entrance to the station is a complete mess thanks to the ugly patios. The Landing might have been a nice warehouse in the past is anything but amazing in terms of it's facade. The streetscape is ruined by the outdoor patios on both buildings. The memorial is out of place if anything. The front facade of Waterfront Station is still majestic, interior has been pretty much decimated except for the ceiling features.

Now let’s also look at the scale of design potential that exists here. There are potentially three levels that need special attention. There is the street level with the desire for activity, continuity, and pedestrian interest, comfort and safety. Then there are the street facades that define the street. They give us the sense of a cohesive place—like Water Street does so well. This can vary in height around 75 to 100 feet in this part of town. It has “eyes on the street” and one senses there are people living or working at their various occupations.

I'm glad Spaxman's idea of a square consists of two buildings and a parking lot but he never seems to manage to include how the Harbour Centre tower fits into his grand urban streetscape vision. (Nevermind ignore that, ruins the storyline)

If we are to consider higher buildings we can wonder about this third level. These higher buildings stick up into the sky, cast long shadows, can be seen from afar as well as close by and begin to formulate our urban skyline. This is a skyline which has received a lot of attention in the past 30 years. With the significant density increases that city councils have approved for the downtown we need to monitor and revise our high-rise and view corridor policies, not to obliterate them, as some suggest, but to bring them in line with current necessities. In the meantime higher buildings provide the opportunity for creating a recognizable and exciting skyline. Hopefully that can be something commensurate with our unique setting and not just a plethora of architectural exhibitionism that is happening in other parts of the world.

I think he wants to say something. Again how it relates to 555 Cordova is beyond me. I mean tall buildings are a good boogeyman but just copying/pasting your vision of skylines into this article is quite dissapointing.

Urban design is so important to us. It is not a simple matter. I have simply described a tiny portion of the thought process that should go into this proposal.

All major proponents should illustrate what they are valuing or not valuing in their design. Any number of nice words are meaningless without specific illustration. Claiming human scale when it is obvious there is none, or heritage compatibility when there is none, or welcoming usable public spaces when there is none, just should not be accepted.

He just complains that the developer should explain their design. But if anything he's doing the exact same thing with his non-critique of the project.

We want to be able to trust that our planning staff is providing the love and rigour needed to maintain the livability and inspiration of our city. It is much more than higher densities and increasing the income from community amenity contributions.

I mean I think all of us could come up with positive/negatives in how 555 West Cordova would work. I still have no clue what their argument is. If anything their most recent slide presentation was a "lets just drag this out longer with fake proposals" since they don't want to actually discuss the project as presented.

https://www.straight.com/news/811816/ray...thoughts-555-west-cordova-street-project