DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[bulldurhamer]

incidentally, apple appears to be working with hyundai on an electric vehicle.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/01/apple-allegedly-working-with-hyundai-on-electric-car-for-2027/

these clean apple cars will be everywhere one day. what's wrong with parking? the anti parking movement seems somewhat outdated, like streetcars. the reasons for them are diminishing. much like the interest in crowded public transportation during the age of pandemic. individual clean cars are the future. if the autonomous feature is soon, then i agree that parking isn't as necessary, but i don't get the impression that's the case.

[The Dirt]

If Americans drive their electric cars anywhere near as much as they do with their current gas-guzzlers, it would cancel out the carbon reduction brought on by electrification.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...vehicles-alone-won-t-stop-climate-change

Switching power sources does nothing to address the vast amount of space the car demands, which could otherwise be used for greens, parks, playgrounds and homes. It doesn’t stop cars from carving up community and turning streets into thoroughfares and outdoor life into a mortal hazard. Electric vehicles don’t solve congestion, or the extreme lack of physical activity that contributes to our poor health.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/23/electric-cars-transport-train-companies

Simply put, there are three ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from passenger transport: avoid the need to travel, shift the transportation modes or improve the technologies,” Milovanoff wrote in The Conversation. “EVs only tackle one side of the problem, the technological one.

https://futurism.com/the-byte/researcher-electric-cars-arent-answer-climate-change

These could include massive investment in public transit—subways, commuter trains, buses—as well as the redesign of cities to allow for more trips to be taken via active modes, such as bicycles or on foot. They could also include strategies such as telecommuting, a shift already spotlighted by the COVID-19 pandemic.

"EVs really do reduce emissions, but they don't get us out of having to do the things we already know we need to do," says MacLean. "We need to rethink our behaviours, the design of our cities, and even aspects of our culture. Everybody has to take responsibility for this."

https://phys.org/news/2020-09-electric-vehicles-wont-climate.html

Finally, this:

[TakeFive]

Nice post

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I wouldn't agree with everything but there lots of good info here (nor am I interested in long-winded ideological debate).

With respect to all the skepticism over EV's consider those who never believed computers would amount to much; those who thought Orville Wright was nutty.

Things we can agree on

Electrifying transit buses and trains


Source

Per technavioblog

According to the report from Bloomberg NEF’s “Electric Vehicle Outlook 2019”, out of almost 425,000 electric buses in operation worldwide at the end of 2018, approximately 421,000 were in China.

What's wrong with this picture? Where the hell is the USA USA USA

Obsessing over VMT?
Misses the bigger picture and is already outdated as COVID-19 has accelerated many changes - like work-from-home, having goods delivered.

There's always this hyper focus on urban centers as if that's all that counts. Once again, COVID-19 has rendered that more questionable. They always skip the suburban life where families live and have kiddos needing transportation to various activities etc.

The biggest waste of miles driven is obviously commuting and Denver is well ahead of most of its peers when it comes to having good bones.

In any case, 'the people' will decide with their feet, their pocketbooks and their votes what the future should look like.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

The Dirt nailed it. I think we need cities that are not designed for an auto-dependent existence. Nearly all surface lots in downtown and immediately adjacent to transit should be used for mixed use development with high proportion of that being residential.

[rds70]

X Denver 2 (formerly X Denver 3) is officially under construction:

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

this movement against parking is pretty weird. if cars can be "clean", what's the big objection?

the reality is that electric cars are about to take over everything. they aren't going away, despite the crazy predictions otherwise. trains are sure to be obsolete, again, as well.

so instead of having places to park these clean vehicles, we're going to count on what? uber? we're happy to support an industry that has no worker protections for what?

eventually autonomous vehicles will take over and parking won't be needed, but that seems a little farther out. Parking being build now should always be made in a way to be converted to something else later anyway.

back to the point, what's the deal with getting rid of parking everywhere? i understand giant empty lots in central areas are silly, but what's wrong with decks? again, the global warming argument will be moot once these solar charged cars are in place.

On a large scale, it seems there is a movement to break auto-dependency on multiple levels. Be it transit upgrades, expansions, multi-modal transit considerations, and planning changes, many center cities and suburban communities are attempting to become more self-sufficient and auto-dependency is a major contributor to those changes in thinking. What does that mean? Co-locating housing, employment, and services. Easier said than done, but despite some notable communities resisting this, many (perhaps most) planning is pushing beneficial improvements.

What's encouraging - if you [drive] around town you'll notice quite a bit of infill amongst old shopping centers, malls, under-utilized suburban land. Much of it happening on former parking lots. The change will take decades, but one by one it's positive change. Our collective instant gratification demands immediacy, but this stuff takes decades.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by rds70

X Denver 2 (formerly X Denver 3) is officially under construction:

^Sharp looking deal. I'm excited about this one. Sort of reminds me of architecture in Chicago's north loop or NYC's meatpacking district. If you've never been to those areas, they are filled with quality design large and small.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by laniroj

^Sharp looking deal. I'm excited about this one. Sort of reminds me of architecture in Chicago's north loop or NYC's meatpacking district. If you've never been to those areas, they are filled with quality design large and small.

Agreed. This is one slick building that will look quite nice in Arapahoe Square. If Kenect ended up breaking ground on the next block over, this would contribute a lot towards energizing the lower end of AS.

[kemachs]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Agreed. This is one slick building that will look quite nice in Arapahoe Square. If Kenect ended up breaking ground on the next block over, this would contribute a lot towards energizing the lower end of AS.

Not only is the architecture/urban form better than previous developments in AS, but it appears to include retail space - something the neighborhood needs if it wants to become a dynamic place where people want to spend time. I have a suspicion that 1-story retail structures like Woods Boss could be demolished in the long term, so what replaces those buildings is crucial.

Developers in Arapahoe Square & city leadership could learn a thing or two from Little Italy in San Diego, which is a similar neighborhood (residential, adjacent to the CBD, plenty of midrise development activity). The difference is that the ground-level restaurants/patios and Piazza della Famiglia make it feel very unique, even with most of the buildings and the piazza itself being newer construction. Hell even LoDo w/ Union Station as the plaza is a decent comparison, except it and Gaslamp are stadium districts, so it's a different vibe with different retail environments. Any reason we couldn't see a public/private anchor like that here, though?

I also think breaking up superblock buildings like Alexan AS, even if it's part of the same development, would go a long way in making them feel more pedestrian friendly. I notice on their website they won't even show the outside of the building, which I find pretty hilarious - even they recognize it's hideous and imposing.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Agreed. This is one slick building that will look quite nice in Arapahoe Square. If Kenect ended up breaking ground on the next block over, this would contribute a lot towards energizing the lower end of AS.

Check this out; Sounds a whole lot like what X communities is doing.

https://rebusinessonline.com/akara-partn...t-phoenix-apartment-community-this-fall/

Kenect will offer 320 furnished and unfurnished units, including junior studios, one-bedroom, one-bedroom flex and three-bedroom/three-bath floor plans. The community will also offer 24-hour amenities, including concierge services, studio fitness classes, social programming, virtual events, 8,000 square feet of ground-floor retail space, 7,000 square feet of co-working space and a rooftop pool.

I didn't recall but Nashville does have some rent by bed-space units. Their co-working space has memberships available to non-residents that includes access to the other amenities. Offering 3 months free rent reflects COVID times. It appeared that half the units in Nashville were still available.

It sounds like when they built their Phoenix project they upped their options with upscale touches. They also offer a 'membership' to residents.

Kenect Phoenix will also offer residents Kenect Exclusive Experiences (KEE) with exclusive access to Kenect-branded events and fitness classes. Residents receive priority reservations for events, such as private concerts in the KEE Studios, demos with local mixologists and chefs, in-house artist classes and pet-friendly happy hours, as well as pop-up coworking and networking events.

For travelers, Kenect memberships are good wherever there's a Kenect project.

Supposedly Akara has secured a JV partner for a Cleveland project. Not sure what the near-term prospects are for Denver. The units in Phoenix have only been available for move-in since November IRRC.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

this movement against parking is pretty weird. if cars can be "clean", what's the big objection?

the reality is that electric cars are about to take over everything. they aren't going away, despite the crazy predictions otherwise. trains are sure to be obsolete, again, as well.

so instead of having places to park these clean vehicles, we're going to count on what? uber? we're happy to support an industry that has no worker protections for what?

eventually autonomous vehicles will take over and parking won't be needed, but that seems a little farther out. Parking being build now should always be made in a way to be converted to something else later anyway.

back to the point, what's the deal with getting rid of parking everywhere? i understand giant empty lots in central areas are silly, but what's wrong with decks? again, the global warming argument will be moot once these solar charged cars are in place.

Even with autonomous vehicles, I will want my own and need a place to park it. I leave so much shit in my car. I'll leave even more shit inside if a robot is driving and I can watch Netflix and bill a few hours in leisure.

[rds70]

Potential Parq II at 10th and Cherokee. 17 stories, 324 units, 7,000 square feet of retail:

[TakeFive]

"Two is company but three's a crowd" - so why not?

Originally Posted by rds70

Potential Parq II at 10th and Cherokee. 17 stories, 324 units, 7,000 square feet of retail:

Wasn't it BG918 who was describing how cool it was to live at The Parq?


Pair of 5-story apartment buildings planned in Denver's Highland neighborhood
Jan 12, 2021 By James Rodriguez – Reporter, Denver Business Journal

Denver-based Corum Real Estate Group is in the early stages of planning two five-story apartment buildings at the intersection of Speer Boulevard and Firth Court, in the Highland neighborhood, according to a concept plan recently submitted to the City of Denver.

The two buildings, which reach the maximum allowable height under the current zoning, would be built on roughly 1.2 acres. The larger of the two, located at 2801 Firth Court, would total 154,417 square feet and consist of 96 residential units. The smaller building, located at 2800 Speer Blvd., would include 83 units in a 110,588-square-foot structure.

They like the neighborhood.

"Our Kasserman project in LoHi has been very successful and we have enjoyed being part of the neighborhood and integrating into the fabric of the community," Fletcher said in an email. "We look forward to growing our presence here and working with the neighborhood groups on the development of this project should it come to fruition."

The Kasserman - 2680 18th St

.....
Images courtesy The Kasserman.com

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Great to see more infill along the Speer corridor. Now take one lane of traffic and create a BRT from Cherry Creek State Park to the Aurarian Campus

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by rds70

Potential Parq II at 10th and Cherokee. 17 stories, 324 units, 7,000 square feet of retail:

Looks like it might be the whole block- guess that means the 955 Bannock office project is likely dead.

[rds70]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Looks like it might be the whole block- guess that means the 955 Bannock office project is likely dead.

I think the site is an “L” around the 955 Bannock building.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Great to see more infill along the Speer corridor. Now take one lane of traffic and create a BRT from Cherry Creek State Park to the Aurarian Campus

I've agued in the past for light rail from Civic Center Station down Broadway to Cherry Creek/Leetsdale with a (Phase One) end-of-line station at the SEC of Parker Rd and Mississippi. Light rail would also extend south down Broadway from Cherry Creek to the Broadway Station.

BRT would come with several issues. The City of Denver boundary ends at So Quebec where it becomes Unincorporated Arapahoe County and then becomes Aurora at Iliff Ave IIRC. Not sure the voters outside of Denver would like your plan.

From "Cherry Creek Park" you can already grab the H Line light rail at Nine Mile Station and ride into the heart of downtown. If you prefer Civic Center Station then bus route 83 goes there from Nine Mile Station. If you're thinking closer to Quincy Ave there's two bus routes that service that area including Smoky Hill Rd that stop at Nine Mile Station.

[gopokes21]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I've agued in the past for light rail from Civic Center Station down Broadway to Cherry Creek/Leetsdale with a (Phase One) end-of-line station at the SEC of Parker Rd and Mississippi. Light rail would also extend south down Broadway from Cherry Creek to the Broadway Station.

BRT would come with several issues. The City of Denver boundary ends at So Quebec where it becomes Unincorporated Arapahoe County and then becomes Aurora at Iliff Ave IIRC. Not sure the voters outside of Denver would like your plan.

From "Cherry Creek Park" you can already grab the H Line light rail at Nine Mile Station and ride into the heart of downtown. If you prefer Civic Center Station then bus route 83 goes there from Nine Mile Station. If you're thinking closer to Quincy Ave there's two bus routes that service that area including Smoky Hill Rd that stop at Nine Mile Station.

Hi there. I usually just lurk for development news, but this post stirred me to join.

We really need to stop relying on surface transportation proposals to move Denver around. Anything we do at street level will just be stuck in traffic no matter how well-intended signal priority, dedicated space/lanes, etc.

Seattle, Austin, Pittsburgh and others are now doing subway where it makes sense. Denver is beyond the point of needing to go underground to connect Union Station, Civic Center, Cap Hill, Cheesman, Cherry Creek, Glendale, and Colorado/25.

If you could get between any of those stops in 90 seconds or less that is truly a game-changer that would take cars off the road. Anything else will be another boondoggle for an underutilized light rail or whatever. Downtown Denver to Cherry Creek in 4-5 minutes flat - think about it! It's also the ONLY way for Denver to really serve its densest, highest transit-propensity neighborhoods.

It's 2021. Subway or bust for Denver. No more LRT or BRT boondoggles, and the suburbs have had more than enough of RTD's focus to the exclusion of our densest neighborhoods like Cap Hill.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

Hi there. I usually just lurk for development news, but this post stirred me to join.

We really need to stop relying on surface transportation proposals to move Denver around. Anything we do at street level will just be stuck in traffic no matter how well-intended signal priority, dedicated space/lanes, etc.

Seattle, Austin, Pittsburgh and others are now doing subway where it makes sense. Denver is beyond the point of needing to go underground to connect Union Station, Civic Center, Cap Hill, Cheesman, Cherry Creek, Glendale, and Colorado/25.

If you could get between any of those stops in 90 seconds or less that is truly a game-changer that would take cars off the road. Anything else will be another boondoggle for an underutilized light rail or whatever. Downtown Denver to Cherry Creek in 4-5 minutes flat - think about it! It's also the ONLY way for Denver to really serve its densest, highest transit-propensity neighborhoods.

It's 2021. Subway or bust for Denver. No more LRT or BRT boondoggles, and the suburbs have had more than enough of RTD's focus to the exclusion of our densest neighborhoods like Cap Hill.

.....
Source

FWIW, many props to Seattle but Austin is a long, long, long way from having any subway - but they could use it. The one advantage with Denver is it already has two hubs that bookend downtown: Denver Union Station and Civic Center Station.

But anyone willing to one-up Elon Musk is Okay in my book.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I'm interested to see how the Boring project turns out in Las Vegas. Maybe that might help catalyze underground transportation in Denver. I'm quite ignorant on the economics and engineering of underground tunnels systems. I've always just assumed that it would be impossibly expensive unless our city center had triple its current residential density