Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

And there are 467,000 francophones in Oceania, the population of Laval, and yet he included them. They represent 0,3% of all francophones in the world.



Source

What's a "partiel"?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

What's a "partiel"?

I would assume "partial", as in French as a second language.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lio45

I expect JHikka is about to create a new thread from the last page of this one (The Great "What do Canadians anticipate will be the relative power of China on the global chessboard in the coming decades?" Thread).

Nah.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Yes - sorry - I have enjoyed this thread - I do think it presents many of the current and real dilemmas - it is sometimes exhausting so I decided to parachute in more on the Macron comment (and I would have done the same if some Anglophone thought that Boris Johnson cared about what was going on in Ontario regarding the English language)... but since I'm doing a driveby shooting - by jurisdiction I inferred groups... if any community or group in Quebec wants to put up a solely English or German or Italian or Chinese sign - can they? As minorities within the province of Quebec - do they not warrant the same protections and ability to promote their culture that Quebec asks for? Asking for a displaced anglophone 1980s vintage...

Sorry I did not answer this sooner. I missed it.

As for minority groups putting up signs only in one language, the law more or less says ''depends for what''.

The Montreal Gazette and other anglo media put up large billboards only in English all the time, because they're community-specific. Of course in some cases they may put up bilingual signs for reasons of their own but it's not the law that imposes it. Various other communities can communicate only in one language (via signs or otherwise) which is not French as well. Though in practice many do communicate in the old country language plus French (or plus French and English) for a variety of reasons: trying to ''fit in'' to the host society, to accommodate community members who have lost the old language...

But an auto body shop or a dépanneur is not a ''minority community only institution'' according to the law.

BTW the only languages that get additional consideration regarding Bill 101 and French (virtually a total exemption in fact, in addition to government support) are indigenous languages. And this was included from the outset in the law in 1977.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Not to mention anyone who questions the logical inconsistencies of Quebec’s anti face covering law.

Just to clarify that Quebec does not have an ''anti face covering law''. It has a law that bans visibly religious symbols and garb for certain public employees working in positions where they exercise authority over citizens.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just to clarify that Quebec does not have an ''anti face covering law''. It has a law that bans visibly religious symbols and garb for certain public employees working in positions where they exercise authority over citizens.

Thanks for clarifying this. There is strong disinformation about that in the rest of Canada.

[Binour]

Some indulge in disinformation.

[Acajack]

Sort of fits here.

Court in Northern Ontario fails to find interpreter for sexual assault victim's testimony in French, case gets thrown out

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/polit...arienne-9d0d4b9843f6dc14adb3d37c6bbbcd4e

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1754650/services-francais-sault-sainte-marie-jordan-justice

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sort of fits here.

Court in Northern Ontario fails to find interpreter for sexual assault victim's testimony in French, case gets thrown out

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/polit...arienne-9d0d4b9843f6dc14adb3d37c6bbbcd4e

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1754650/services-francais-sault-sainte-marie-jordan-justice

There was a vehicular manslaughter trial within the last year here in Moncton, where the victim was indigenous, and the perp was Acadian and elected (as is his right) to have his trial conducted in French.

Unfortunately, the victims family could not speak French, and the courts refused to provide translation services to them. As such, people who had been traumatized by the incident felt completely excluded from the process. They were extremely upset, and I don't blame them one bit...……….

The perp was found innocent BTW (mostly on a technicality).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There was a vehicular manslaughter trial within the last year here in Moncton, where the victim was indigenous, and the perp was Acadian and elected (as is his right) to have his trial conducted in French.

Unfortunately, the victims family could not speak French, and the courts refused to provide translation services to them. As such, people who had been traumatized by the incident felt completely excluded from the process. They were extremely upset, and I don't blame them one bit...……….

The perp was found innocent BTW (mostly on a technicality).

That's completely unacceptable.

[Glazed Ham]

Anyone know of a forum where I can go read interesting news and banter about construction projects?

[Acajack]

This is a COVID story but part of it fits here, as this is basically our ''language" thread these days.

File this under the discussion: "there is no practical disadvantage to living in Quebec while knowing no French, right?".

Calhoun said she doesn’t speak French, and her husband is not fluent, and wondered if the language barrier contributed to the ticket. She said the officer did not speak English.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7567308/west-...hey-shouldve-been-considered-exceptions/

Yup, just like living in Ontario folks... until this happens.

BTW this actually happened in the inner suburbs of Montreal, not in the Bas-St-Laurent.

[urbandreamer]

My neighbour doesn't speak a word of English. He's Serbian but has been in Canada since 1992. Although I hardly speak a word of French, I would rather live in Montreal than many other cities in Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

My neighbour doesn't speak a word of English. He's Serbian but has been in Canada since 1992. Although I hardly speak a word of French, I would rather live in Montreal than many other cities in Canada.

You can live basically anywhere in the world while speaking little to none of the local language.

The question we're debating here is how much of an inconvenience to you it will be if you do that, and perhaps also whether or not it's a disrespectful practice.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You can live basically anywhere in the world while speaking little to none of the local language.

The question we're debating here is how much of an inconvenience to you it will be if you do that, and perhaps also whether or not it's a disrespectful practice.

If you're in Montreal, little to no inconvenience, in my experience. I've only once in fifty years interacted with a Montrealer who didn't speak English.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

If you're in Montreal, little to no inconvenience, in my experience. I've only once in fifty years interacted with a Montrealer who didn't speak English.

Same. Spent plenty of time in Montreal not having to speak any French whatsoever.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

If you're in Montreal, little to no inconvenience, in my experience. I've only once in fifty years interacted with a Montrealer who didn't speak English.

Well, it sounds like that family just got their once-in-50-years inconvenience.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well, it sounds like that family just got their once-in-50-years inconvenience.

Yup.

[le calmar]

Personally, I find it hard to believe the police officer didn’t speak any English. Limited proficiency in English is more likely.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Yup.

I'd suspect that it's way more often than once in a half century if one lives there, but people just roll with it I suppose.

Yesterday I was driving around Gatineau and on the highways there were electronic variable message signs flashing details about the curfew and other stuff. It was only in French and I know for a fact they're not typically bilingual in the Montreal area either.

Or for example a lot of locally-sourced food products that have stickers on a cellophane wrapping in my experience are so small and the list of ingredients so long that they're often only in French. I recently noticed that Costco had products with French only ingredient labelling - and if this happens in Gatineau, it can happen in Montreal too. (Actually I know it happens in Montreal.)

I know if I had allergies or an allergic child I wouldn't want to have to pull out a dictionary or my phone to figure out all of the ingredients on a label on a regular basis.

For the record, if I lived in Ontario I would never raise a child who spoke only French and couldn't function reasonably normally in English. Actually, I wouldn't do that in Quebec either, and have not with my kids. I do find it rather silly to live in an area with a language border where there is significant interplay between both sides, and not learn at least the basics of the other side's language.

That said, I have little sympathy for irredentists. But you guys already knew that.