Envie [256 Rideau St] | 2x85m | 2x29f | Completed

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Classic Ottawa

Cheaper...

No no, that won't do, CHEAPER!!!!!!

Fuck it let's just give up and phone it in

I dunno... what is being built looks pretty much exactly like the revised elevation in this post from back in May. I like the top detail in that elevation, so I'm going to reserve judgement for now.

I do think the cladding looks better than the Andaz.

[J.OT13]

The second version of the proposal was my personal favourite. Unique to Ottawa, and even Canada to a certain extent. It would have provided some variation in depth, along with a bit of colour.

The general design and materials of the current build-form, though mediocre, are superior to Claridge Plaza I-IV.

No matter the architectural design, the massing remained the same in all 4 iterations, contributing to what could very well be the absolute worse city block in central Ottawa.

I don't think people taking residency in the building will have any issues. The problem is at street level and the effect on the skyline. The shear wall, the micro-climate created by this wall, the illusion of one giant block. Truly city planning at it's worse.

As for Envie Champagne, it certainly won't win any design awards (though in Ottawa, who knows), but at least the heights are varied, the roof lines are somewhat interesting (remains to be seen for this one), there's breathing room between the two phases and it rises along side a diverse group of condo/apartment towers, in height, design, materials and colour palettes. In stark contrast to that stretch of Rideau, Dow's Lake represents some of the best urban planning in Ottawa.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The second version of the proposal was my personal favourite. Unique to Ottawa, and even Canada to a certain extent. It would have provided some variation in depth, along with a bit of colour.

The general design and materials of the current build-form, though mediocre, are superior to Claridge Plaza I-IV.

No matter the architectural design, the massing remained the same in all 4 iterations, contributing to what could very well be the absolute worse city block in central Ottawa.

I don't think people taking residency in the building will have any issues. The problem is at street level and the effect on the skyline. The shear wall, the micro-climate created by this wall, the illusion of one giant block. Truly city planning at it's worse.

As for Envie Champagne, it certainly won't win any design awards (though in Ottawa, who knows), but at least the heights are varied, the roof lines are somewhat interesting (remains to be seen for this one), there's breathing room between the two phases and it rises along side a diverse group of condo/apartment towers, in height, design, materials and colour palettes. In stark contrast to that stretch of Rideau, Dow's Lake represents some of the best urban planning in Ottawa.

I've never actually minded Envie Champagne that much. On it's own it's kind of ugly, but not offensive, and I appreciate the variety it will add to the eventual Little Italy skyline that will probably be dominated by concrete and glass and maybe a few dozen more Roderick Lazy clone stamp towers.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Yup. I'm from Québec City and beyond the historic core, the city looks like something you would see in suburban Texas.

St-Roch? Nothing’s 20 storeys, but there is some good modern architecture and retrofits there. Nice urban fabric.

[Urbanarchit]

Rideau Street is going to look much like this street in Hong Kong except without any of the charm. I don't quite understand how this could get approved considering how tall and wall-like it'll make the block while not giving enough sunlight to residents. Here's hoping the adjacent property doesn't continue this miserable construction.

There does need to be a change to city approvals to prevent bait-and-switch proposals. If the City approves a building with its design, then only that should be allowed to be built. If they change the design, then they should restart the whole process for approvals, knowing it might not be accepted.

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by phil235

St-Roch? Nothing’s 20 storeys, but there is some good modern architecture and retrofits there. Nice urban fabric.

I guess I have a pretty wide definition of the historic core. Further west or further north, Québec City has some of the ugliest suburbs in Canada.

Back on topic, I usually don't mind Soviet style buildings, but looking at the windows, this should never have been approved. If another tower get built right beside, these "windows" are going to be totally useless (and they pretty much already are).

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Quebec City? like what? Please provide an example of a decent 20+ floor building. Even Montreal sucks in terms of tall modern architecture.

Why does it have to be over 20 stories...??? Do you work for Claridge? My point was that you can drive to see nicer buildings - for a nations capital we sure suck at building crap - it isn't even mediocre.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Why does it have to be over 20 stories...??? Do you work for Claridge? My point was that you can drive to see nicer buildings - for a nations capital we sure suck at building crap - it isn't even mediocre.

I said 20 because it's mostly tall buildings that get the "angry" treatment from armchair developers, and that there are several shorter buildings in Ottawa that have good design. And Quebec City is just such a bad bad choice when trying to make this kind of argument. Having said that, most buildings around the world are just crapy, ugly, and cheaply build with a focus on making money. Granted, when the climate permits it, there is more creative freedom. And no, I don't work for Claridge. Can't I completely disagree with someone without having to work for the company that they despise?

[OTownandDown]

Does anyone have any photos of the canyon produced by all these buildings from the inside?

How do the podiums interact? I can't imagine it's super nice to hang out in there.

Imagine 6 more towers built along the block with the same massing? Or worse, another thru-block tower to dead-end the canyon?

I'm imagining its starting to look like this:

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Does anyone have any photos of the canyon produced by all these buildings from the inside?

How do the podiums interact? I can't imagine it's super nice to hang out in there.

Imagine 6 more towers built along the block with the same massing? Or worse, another thru-block tower to dead-end the canyon?

I'm imagining its starting to look like this:

It might be worse now that they've started construction on the other side of the road. Personally, any time I have walked below the buildings I haven't really noticed the canyon. Rideau at street level is interesting enough that you don't notice the impact.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by silvergate

It might be worse now that they've started construction on the other side of the road. Personally, any time I have walked below the buildings I haven't really noticed the canyon. Rideau at street level is interesting enough that you don't notice the impact.

Road-based canyons are one thing, and can be debated based on the neighbourhood design guildelines that have clearly been flaunted. (6-storey frontage and all, going out the window).

I mean the podium canyon, and the poor schmucks who bought on the south-east side of 244 Rideau on the lowest levels:
https://goo.gl/maps/5Su73fuWN1iaMAeB6

Is the Envie podium, loose grass and dirt-patch going to be the same level as Claride Plaza's dirt patch, or is there a change in elevation resulting in a three-sided canyon completely devoid of natural light for the people living on the lower floors at Claridge?

[OTownandDown]

Credit to Harley for photographing these condo units before they disappear from public view forever. The units to the lower right and left of the inside of Claridge plaza. I'm thinking these are going must be a tad dark and claustrophobic at this point? Good for people working the nighshift at Cafe Dekcuf.

[Harley613]

I can't find another case where two completely different twin tower developments are connected in this fashion anywhere else in Canada. I'm sure it exists, probably in third world countries, but I don't think this would ever fly in Toronto or Vancouver. What were they thinking when they approved this?!

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Credit to Harley for photographing these condo units before they disappear from public view forever. The units to the lower right and left of the inside of Claridge plaza. I'm thinking these are going must be a tad dark and claustrophobic at this point? Good for people working the nighshift at Cafe Dekcuf.

It really makes you considering the value in some "Right to Light" laws like what they have in the UK. The design of the original Claridge Buildings all but ensured the people facing inward would likely never get much light, and that there is likely risk of that with future buildings. They will be faced with a dark canyon. It then sort of forces the buildings beside it to copy their design lest they block them off entirely - but such buildings are quite awkward. That's some poor quality of life.

Envie's site was too narrow to do anything different, but if the parking lot beside it could have acquired it, then at least they could have done a Vancouver-type building with a tower or two set back from Claridge Plaza to allow for that light. Maybe the City shouldn't have approved Envie by recognizing what impact it would have for existing residents in a various obvious way.

[905er]

these don't look new at all.. they look like two commie blocks that have been reclad or renovated. Is it just the pic, or are these at least a bit more redeeming in person?

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by 905er

these don't look new at all.. they look like two commie blocks that have been reclad or renovated. Is it just the pic, or are these at least a bit more redeeming in person?

Nope they're just as bad in person.

[J.OT13]

Quite an embarrassing development. This type of build form should never be approved, and the worst part is, we'll no doubt get a third project with the same proportions between Envie and the old Quality Inn (also student res today).

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by 905er

these don't look new at all.. they look like two commie blocks that have been reclad or renovated. Is it just the pic, or are these at least a bit more redeeming in person?

No, no, you can see from the large sign, they're Luxury Condos For Sale

[905er]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

No, no, you can see from the large sign, they're Luxury Condos For Sale

thanks for the laugh.

[eltodesukane]

2021 January 19

How tall will be the middle section?