Quote:
Originally Posted by Spr0ckets
Lots to unpack here.
But let's just say that right off the bat, I agree with others' view that your original comments and views (including some of the ones expressed here) are considerably out of touch and just generally lacking in any compassion or humanity.
|
Ok.
Quote:
A lot of the people you're slating off as being "irresponsible" for still being in the rental market rather than ownership happen to be multi-generational Canadians - which I realize in your mind as an admitted 1st generation immigrant, implies that they should be miles ahead of you already, in terms of their current station in life having had a bit of a "headstart", ....if we can just call it that....that you yourself didn't have as a young person moving here.
Except it doesn't quite work that way all the time, and it's not as simplistic as all that.
|
Ok.
Quote:
|
A lot of those 30 something year olds (or even 40 or 50 something year olds) who've been forced into the rental market come from families where their own parents and grandparents before them, owned the homes they grew up in, and probably even hoped to pass down to their kids and grandkids as part of their legacy.
|
This is where you start to lose me. Counting on inheriting even $1, is counting on $1 too much.
Quote:
|
But a lot has happened in the last 30-40 years that's made that difficult, if not impossible, for a lot of families and made it harder for them to own homes like those who came before them - and not all of it is (in fact most of it is not) their fault, and has nothing to do with their own levels of "personal responsibility", their diligence (or laziness).
|
Definitely lost me here. Did these changes just happen without anyone noticing, at the snap of a finger? No. Access to information has been rather evenly distributed for sometime.
Vancouver has been getting more and more unaffordable the entire time I have lived here. There have been some short blips in time - GFC in 2008, Covid in 2020, but the trend is about as clear as any.
As I type this, I can predict with confidence, it will be more expensive to live here all around, and even more difficult to get into the market in 10 years. Plan accordingly!
Quote:
|
In many cases you're talking about educated folks, many just freshly graduated from college or graduate schools trying to put down roots themselves but finding that whereas their parents were able to buy their own family home that they grew up in for $50k, 90k or even $120,000, 40-50 years ago, suddenly you need no less than $700,000 to a couple of millions of dollars just to get into the ownership game and buy into a home that's less than half the size of the one you grew up with, and that that simply isn't an option at your current state in life.
|
Yes. Nothing in life is a given. Owning a house/property certainly isn't. We both know this information. Make educated life decisions, with the facts you have on hand.
Quote:
We're talking mostly millennials here with good decent(ish) paying jobs, and even on the other end you might have 40 and 50 something year old Gen-Xer's who were in the home ownership but have been forced into rental also for reasons not entirely under their control.
For a lot of these people, THIS is their home (as in Greater Vancouver and BC), and they're not going to be able to suddenly pick up and pack up and move to a more "affordable" town or city in the Prairies or the Atlantic provinces where they have no support system at all.
|
Moving is difficult. Immigrating is difficult. Life is difficult. I don't disagree. But I do fail to see the larger point?
Its certainly not societies responsibility to "give" you anything if you are fully capable of earning/working for it yourself.
And lets be honest - most of the people we are actually talking about are the same folk that will tell you that moving to Langley or Surrey is like being shipped off to the gulags...
Not the same if legitimate impediments are in place - mental health, etc.
Quote:
And I'm saying all this as a first generation immigrant myself, like you.
And like you, and as an immigrant you ought to be aware of the fact that there's some level of privilege to being able to immigrate to another country - by choice - and as a non-refugee immigrant with the kind of support system, that allows one to set down roots relatively quickly and ensconce yourself into the social strata at a decent level and station.
|
100%. I count my lucky stars daily for being able to have immigrated to Canada. Its been a blessing, and I'm always appreciate of the opportunity this country gave me.
Quote:
|
Surely that should behoove you some level of empathy for people like them, in much the same way you (hopefully) have for people that you and I left behind who couldn't afford to immigrate like we did.
|
I have a lot of empathy. Don't mistake my point out ones personal responsibility for a lack of empathy.
But empathy has limits. People need to be responsible for personal choices.
I cannot count the amount of people I know at work, or in social circles that moan about Vancouver being unaffordable or "never being able to buy.'
They all generally fit the same profile - raised in Vancouver. Always expected to own. Parents have a multimillion dollar home paid off. They drive nice cars, and pay expensive rent in nice condos. They eat out alot, and spend a good chunk on personal services and appearances.
How about move to the burbs, live in a ground floor suite, commute to work for 2 years, and save the money needed to get ahead.
For those that are literally unable to do that due to finances? Well the reality is, the less successful you are, the further out you will have to live away from the "core" of any desirable location. This isn't unique to Vancouver.
I don't think its societies responsibility to ensure they have a Vancouver condo to live. But I do think its society's responsibility to ensure they have a fair shot at earning a living in this country if they don't have a legitimate impediment to being able to do so.
If this means the rich in Downtown wont have baristas to serve them coffee. Tough luck. Not much sympathy for that either. But there are market solutions - JJ bean is a great local success story.
Quote:
|
I've heard this,.... "if you can't afford to live here, then you should be here" view before, typically (and sad to say) often from immigrants, most of whom immigrated here from relatively well-to-do families and situations and from a certain demographic, and often time forgetting the role their own immigration to this country might be playing into making it more difficult for the native born Canadians. While also conveniently forgetting the reality that if they really can't afford to live here as they observed then they just as likely can't afford to move anywhere else that you think would be more fitting for them.
|
Covid proved beyond a doubt that immigration is making Vancouver unaffordable. But to those with eyes open, didn't need Covid to see that.
But Canada as a country has agreed that immigration is a somewhat "untouchable" topic to discuss. And as such, with the covid exception, I would plan around high immigration levels indefinitely.
Quote:
|
As Genwhy observed, Burnaby and Metrotown specifically, ignored this problem for the longest time, with many of those in power to do anything about it probably having the same "personal responsibility" view and approach that you're taking, as they enjoyed the tax and revenue benefits of a runaway red hot real estate market, right up until it drove all of them out of power when the problem ran out of control.
|
Sounds like a reasonable market force reaction.
Quote:
|
It's not unreasonable to expect that the cities and the powers-that-be under whose stewardship (in successive administrations and regimes), the housing market and situation went out of control, pick up some of the burden of (social) responsibility in trying to help prevent it get even worse.
|
Yes and no. If government would stay out of housing completely there would be no need to have this conversation.
Every well intentioned idea around making housing more affordable will nearly always make it less so.
Vancouver does not exist in a vacuum, these issues have been fought, discussed, and solved in other locales.
The only way housing becomes more affordable in this city is one of two options;
1. Massive deregulation of the entire building sector. Zoning, permitting, building codes, etc.
2. Government stepping in and building true non market housing, like Singapore. Non speculative, not for profit housing stock.
Option 1 will never happen. We will sooner regulate ourselves into never building even a treehouse. This would also absolutely crater land values, not likely to ever actually be voted on seriously.
Option 2, more likely to happen, but not for decades.
Quote:
|
(read : homelessness, which clearly people here hate even more, and think just magically falls out of the sky as a societal problem happening only to those who 'deserve' it).
|
No one "deserves" to be homeless. Least of which those who are truly unable to help their reality - mentally ill, handicapped, etc.
I'm firmly pro social assistance and housing for those individuals, but they represent a tiny, tiny portion of whole population.
Prev
Linear Mode
