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  #161  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2020, 5:32 PM
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https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/develop...-district-sparks-controversy-11609336800


Developer’s $1.4 Billion Plan for Towers in New York’s Historic Seaport District Sparks Controversy
Proposal is slated to go before the Landmarks Preservation Commission on Jan. 5; panel previously rejected at least nine developments for the site



By Irene Plagianos
Dec. 30, 2020


Quote:
The South Street Seaport, one of New York City’s oldest neighborhoods, is no stranger to fights over protecting its historic buildings. And one of its longstanding preservation battlegrounds is a parking lot.

Over the past decades, several developments have been proposed for the block-long lot, which sits at the edge of the historic district in lower Manhattan. But many have been scuttled over the height and style of the proposed buildings.......
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  #162  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2021, 2:32 PM
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https://champ.gothamist.com/champ/gotham...an-towers-would-prefer-tow-pound-instead

Opponents Of Lower Manhattan Towers Would Prefer A Tow Pound Instead


BY SYDNEY PEREIRA
JAN. 5, 2021


Quote:
For decades, a 48,000-square-foot parking lot has sat between Water and Pearl Streets at the corner of Peck Slip, the edge of an 11-block historic district in the South Street Seaport section of Lower Manhattan.

Attempts to build on it have proven fruitless. At least nine proposals have been brought to the Landmarks Preservation Commission, the body that would need to greenlight any proposal in the historic district. All have failed.
Now, the Howard Hughes Corporation is trying again, with a 470-foot-tall dual-tower proposal with about 360 homes, including around 100 affordable apartments.

But the prospect of a residential tower is so loathed by some in the community that one faction is lobbying for the NYPD's Manhattan tow pound to be relocated to the historic district instead.
Quote:
“We consider it to be a reasonable alternative,” said Michael Kramer, a prominent member of a group known as the Seaport Coalition. “We’re not NIMBY here.”

In a proposal plan shared with Gothamist, the coalition calls it “Resiliency Park,” an eyebrow-raising moniker in the era of climate change and an effort by cities to reduce the reliance on cars.

More than 6,500 people have signed a petition against the developer’s tower proposal, and the coalition is raising $100,000 to bankroll a legal battle. Community Board 1 has voted to oppose the developers’ project in an advisory resolution.

Meanwhile, Kramer and Paul Goldstein, a Community Board 1 member and Southbridge Towers resident, have been speaking about the tow pound as an alternative for months in multiple private meetings, including with the borough president’s office, according to Manhattan Deputy Borough President Matthew Washington.

Washington acknowledged discussions, although he said the plan was not “realistic.”
Quote:
Still, the aggressive campaign against the Howard Hughes project reflects the deeply ingrained resistance to tall buildings in parts of in NYC, even in sections of Lower Manhattan. Just 149 affordable apartments have been built in CB 1’s district during the entire de Blasio administration, which has been criticized for concentrating construction of affordable housing in lower-income neighborhoods through rezonings. And 1,651 affordable co-ops were lost in 2014 after Southbridge Towers voted to privatize and opt out of the Mitchell-Lama program for middle-class homes.

The two towers under the developers’ plan would rise about 470 feet, with about 100 affordable apartments at 40% of the area median income, or $40,960 a year for a family of three in NYC. It would also provide $50 million for the Seaport Museum’s expansion, which is a part of the application to the landmarks commission, and clean-up of a toxic mercury site below ground from more-than century-old thermometer factories through the state’s brownfield program.
Quote:
A spokesperson for the developer, James Yolles, said in a statement: “The proposal to replace the parking lot with a large tow pound proves that a few of the project’s opponents care far less about what’s right for the neighborhood and the historic district than about preserving their own apartment views in the guise of historic preservation.”

The developer has faced opposition from longtime residents for years over development proposals and promised amenities— like blowback after promised public rooftop space at Pier 17 was reserved for those who could afford a $492 ticket on July 4th in 2019.

But now, both Councilmember Margaret Chin and Borough President Gale Brewer, whose input is critical to the Howard Hughes project, are expected to issue joint testimony in support of the developers’ proposal on Tuesday.
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  #163  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2021, 3:36 PM
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Well, they'd probably prefer an industrial plant over a nice apartment complex so probably not the people to pay attention to.

I can't get over how 470' is "too tall" for lower Manhattan, where dozens of buildings go well beyond (even double or triple) that.

I hope this can still see the light of day.
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  #164  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2021, 3:57 PM
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This is such a freaking joke, and an indictment of everything wrong with the NYC development approvals process.

They could build a giant crater here and the NIMBYs would claim it's "too tall". It's a perfect site for a supertall, and NIMBYs should be shunted aside. Hopefully the next mayor fixes this idiocy.
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  #165  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2021, 5:20 PM
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^ There’s a plan floating around from the council to change the process, but somehow you know it would just get worse.

http://council.nyc.gov/wp-content/upload...gether-Final-Report-December-16-2020.pdf
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  #166  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 3:16 AM
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Guess Gale Brewer didn't want the tow pound...



https://therealdeal.com/2021/01/05/howar...-gets-surprise-backing-from-gale-brewer/

Howard Hughes’ Seaport project gets surprise backing from Gale Brewer
Noted tower foe urges Landmarks to approve 250 Water Street





New York
January 05, 2021


Quote:
Et tu, Gale?

For opponents of two towers proposed in the South Street Seaport Historic District, Manhattan Borough President Gale Brewer’s endorsement of the $1.4 billion project Tuesday must have seemed like a betrayal.

For fans of residential development, it was a promising sign that the controversial project will get the go-ahead — and that 2021 might be a turning point for builders.

Brewer has for ages sided against developers pitching outsize buildings, but she urged the Landmarks Preservation Commission to approve the Howard Hughes Corporation’s application for 250 Water Street.

She was among dozens of New Yorkers to testify at a hearing before the commission, which is charged with ensuring the appropriateness of architecture in historic districts.

Brewer’s backing was not only the most unexpected but arguably the most important, given her credibility as a steward of Manhattan’s traditional neighborhoods. For example, she is suing to reverse the de Blasio administration’s decision that four Two Bridges towers can be built without City Council sign-off.

What makes 250 Water Street different is that it would fund a $50 million endowment for the South Street Seaport Museum, which has struggled financially for years and been closed since March. Its champions call the institution crucial to the historic district, which they say justifies the Landmarks Preservation Commission taking the funding into consideration.

The project “will overall ensure this district’s success for many years to come,” Brewer told the commissioners via Zoom.

But the borough president cited another key argument for the residential development, which would be 470 feet at its highest point: “It has been crafted to reflect the existing urban context,” Brewer said.

To wit: At street level it would look like its neighbors, with the towers set back, and it would be at the Wall Street edge of the historic district. Backers say it would provide a transition from the low-scale buildings closer to the East River to the soaring spires just west of it.

“Y’all keep talking about a 40-story building as a tower,” testified Kenneth Jackson, the retired Columbia University professor and perhaps Manhattan’s premier historian, after a number of opponents had spoken. “Have you walked around Lower Manhattan at all?”

Robert Tierney, a former chairman of the commission, told his successors, “New buildings don’t need to be of the scale of 19th century buildings found on the other side of the district.” Howard Hughes’ edifices, he said, “would blend into the taller modern buildings immediately behind it.”
Quote:
Critics, though, made an impassioned case for Landmarks to deny the application, rejecting the very idea of a transitional zone.

“There’s no such thing as an edge to a historic district,” said Tara Kelly of the Municipal Art Society. “You’re either in it or out of it.”

Andrea Goldwyn, director of public policy at the New York Landmarks Conservancy, was among many who said the towers would “overwhelm” the district. And Simeon Bankoff, executive director of the Historic Districts Council, called the proposed building “a truly monstrous edifice to achieve many goals, but chiefly greed.”

Hitting on another argument frequently made by project foes, Goldwyn said the landmarks agency is obligated to gauge only the historic appropriateness of the proposal. “A hefty donation should not influence the commission’s decision,” she said.

But it is hard to imagine commissioners completely divorcing themselves from that and other factors touted repeatedly Tuesday by a veritable who’s who of the city’s so-called permanent government. Many testifiers needed a good portion of their allotted three minutes just to rattle off their résumés.
Quote:
The project’s role in saving the museum was a frequent refrain.

“It would endow us with enough continuing support so that we might never face closure again,” said Brendan Sexton, chairman of the museum’s board and a former city sanitation commissioner. “We have the chance for financial stability for the first time.”

Rebutting claims that development rights in the district could be sold to raise funds, as envisioned long ago, construction magnate Frank Sciame said, “For five decades, the benefits to the museum of the air rights have not materialized.”

He questioned why the parking lot on which the project would rise was included in the historic district in the first place, as nothing distinguishes the site. But in any case, Sciame, a board member and former chairman of the New York Landmarks Conservancy, said, “The residential towers above are sited and massed such that they will not detract from the historic district.”

With its size, proximity to Wall Street and striking views of the East River, the project’s 260 condominium units would command prices sufficient to accommodate 100 affordable rentals.

“Even though I know we’re not supposed to talk about this issue, it will have affordable housing,” Brewer told the commission, alluding to the agency’s narrow mandate.

Affordability would play a stronger role if the project gets past Landmarks and into the city’s land use review, where Council member Margaret Chin would decide its fate late this year. She testified in favor of landmarks approval Tuesday.

Seth Pinsky, an Economic Development Corporation president in the Bloomberg administration, doubted that a low-scale project would be financially viable at 250 Water Street. And even if it were, he testified, it would not be appropriate from an urban planning perspective to put a small building there, given its proximity to job centers and the Fulton Street and World Trade Center transit hubs.

Like other project supporters, Pinsky noted the need for economic development as New York City tries to come back from its pandemic state — ostensibly not Landmarks’ concern, but hard to ignore nonetheless.

“Take a hard look,” Pinsky said, “at what we will forego as a city if we deny this.”
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  #167  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 3:36 AM
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Hahaha

When Gale Brewer of all people tells you to stop complaining about a high-rise development you do it.
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  #168  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 3:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Hahaha

When Gale Brewer of all people tells you to stop complaining about a high-rise development you do it.

She got it cut down in half, almost literally, so her work is done.
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  #169  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
She got it cut down in half, almost literally, so her work is done.
I know, hasn't she done enough damage?

I still won't forgive her for the Tower Verre height chop, ever.
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  #170  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 5:40 PM
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I know, hasn't she done enough damage?

I still won't forgive her for the Tower Verre height chop, ever.

That wasn’t her. That was Amanda Burden at City Planning during the Bloomberg administration.
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  #171  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 6:06 PM
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That wasn’t her. That was Amanda Burden at City Planning during the Bloomberg administration.
You're right, my mistake. Didn't she cut some other big 1K project though (other than this)? I may be thinking of the Cherry Street Towers.

Not sure why I confused Gale with Amanda.
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  #172  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2021, 6:06 PM
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Honestly considering the testimony (this was an almost 9 hour hearing) the height chop to me was an astute move anyways. Naysayers were correct in saying just about all the other proposals with towers were foiled through the years by LPC, and a 1,000' version might have put HHC in a place of bad faith with the LPC right out of the gate.
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  #173  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2021, 1:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
You're right, my mistake. Didn't she cut some other big 1K project though (other than this)? I may be thinking of the Cherry Street Towers.

Not sure why I confused Gale with Amanda.
She's been involved in many.


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Originally Posted by JSsocal View Post
Honestly considering the testimony (this was an almost 9 hour hearing) the height chop to me was an astute move anyways. Naysayers were correct in saying just about all the other proposals with towers were foiled through the years by LPC, and a 1,000' version might have put HHC in a place of bad faith with the LPC right out of the gate.
Well here's the thing, if we're going to judge based on height, then those nearly 500 ft towers are out of scale with the district also, and there are now two of them. The project is the same size, we just get two towers now instead of one slender one. Basically, more people will lose their views is all that was accomplished. And none of those earlier proposals brought the benefits to the historic district that this proposal will.



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  #174  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2021, 2:45 AM
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  #175  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2021, 4:36 AM
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^^ whats that low/mid-rise trash immediately to the left (to the southwest) of the proposal in that rendering..
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  #176  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2021, 5:11 PM
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^^ whats that low/mid-rise trash immediately to the left (to the southwest) of the proposal in that rendering..
This beauty?

https://www.emporis.com/buildings/114392/st-margarets-house-new-york-city-ny-usa

https://www.smhnyc.org/




https://www.curbed.com/2021/01/south-street-seaport-tower-howard-hughes-historic-districts.html

Build a Tower, Save a Museum? That’s the Gamble in the Seaport Historic District





By Caroline Spivack
January 7, 2021


Quote:
Despite occupying prime real estate in Lower Manhattan, a city-block-size parking lot between Water and Pearl Streets has sat undeveloped for decades. The Howard Hughes Corporation hopes to change that; last October, the company presented plans to build a 470-foot-tall dual-tower complex with both market-rate and affordable housing. A chorus of community complaints quickly sprang up, as is expected when new development is proposed in someone’s backyard. But this isn’t a plain old NIMBY story — because the site falls within the boundaries of the Seaport’s 11-block historic district. In theory, nothing so large is allowed to be built there, but it may happen anyway, and that could be a big deal with some big repercussions.

The area’s zoning caps buildings at 12 stories, and several developers who’ve sought to build some sort of high-rise there in the past have been thwarted. The land itself isn’t historically significant, of course; who wants to preserve a parking lot? But there are fears that approval of the Howard Hughes building, which has the key support of local City Councilmember Margaret Chin and Manhattan Borough President Gale Brewer, would set a precedent that may lead to more high-rises in historic districts across the city.
Quote:
At a marathon nine-hour Landmarks Preservation Commission hearing this week, Simeon Bankoff, the executive director of the Historic Districts Council, called the plan “a Trojan horse” and said it would set a “dreadful precedent for the regulation of historic districts in New York City going forward.” By the city’s definition, a historic district is a collection of buildings that together “create a distinct sense of place.” A 40-something-story high-rise isn’t exactly in keeping with that spirit (it’s down from an earlier 990-foot design). That said, the parking lot that’s currently there isn’t in keeping with that spirit either — and probably shouldn’t have been included in the district in the first place.
Quote:
What sets this plan apart is a detail that makes it harder to reject out of hand: It would fund a $50 million endowment for the South Street Seaport Museum, which is struggling financially. And that is, at least in part, why some big names in the landmarks world, including former LPC chair Bob Tierney and commissioner Sherida Paulson, back the developer’s plan. Technically, the Commission is only supposed to consider the “appropriateness” of the building itself, but the tradeoff of allowing the development in order to save the museum, which might otherwise shutter, has some preservationists willing to back the towers.

The Howard Hughes Corporation also says that the circumstances around this site are unique, as this is the city’s only undeveloped full-block lot within a historic district. “There’s no rules that all construction in a historic district must match the height of all other buildings in the district. It’s really a case-by-case determination,” Valerie Campbell, a land-use counselor for Howard Hughes, told Curbed. And, the argument goes, this case is unlikely to recur.
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  #177  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2021, 7:48 PM
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Call me crazy but I kind of like these buildings. I hope they still have a shot despite all the opposition.
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  #178  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2021, 8:17 PM
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Call me crazy but I kind of like these buildings. I hope they still have a shot despite all the opposition.
Yeah, the design has always been nice. The issue has been in what form it should be built. These NIMBYs were never going to be satisfied, and never will be.
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  #179  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2021, 11:34 PM
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Yeah, the design has always been nice. The issue has been in what form it should be built. These NIMBYs were never going to be satisfied, and never will be.
Of course but how much can they chop this thing. Do you think the current 470 twins can get approved?
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  #180  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2021, 12:56 AM
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Of course but how much can they chop this thing. Do you think the current 470 twins can get approved?
It can get approval, more so now that Gale Brewer and Councilmember Margaret Chin are behind it. But it's still up to Landmarks. They'll probably approve it, and then be sued by some NIMBYs anyway. Every decision in New York ends in a frivolous lawsuit.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9134368&postcount=11
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