The 401

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Blitz

If anyone thinks Windsor has been given its share of provincial infrastructure dollars over the years, I'd respectfully disagree. We have had to deal with these polluting, belching trucks on city streets (going right past a high school for God's sake) for 60 YEARS because the province lacked the brainpower to connect the busiest highway with the busiest border crossing. Also, the E.C. Row Expressway in Windsor is an unsafe joke that is nowhere close to being up to highway standards because the province downloaded it onto the city even though it's a regional road.

Better late than never I guess. The 401 extension in Windsor is stupid expensive for what it is, but at least they had the foresight to 6-lane it.

That cut what.. half of the lights? I know the most impactful intersections are deeper in the city closer to the bridge but at least its something.

A few more years and the new crossing should bypass Highway 3 completely. The only people not happy about it are the Marouns / Ambassador Bridge companies and anyone employed by the businesses along Huron Church.

I wonder if they will ever build that second span... Could it all have just been a all-in bluff that was finally called?

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Could it all have just been a all-in bluff that was finally called?

Yep. That's what I believe.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I actually wonder why Highway 3 - Huron Church Road wasn't converted to a freeway back then. Or did Canada and U.S. just not want to feed Maroun?

Matty bought the bridge in 1979. Neither the Canadian federal and provincial governments nor their U.S. counterparts were willing to pony up.

I don't think it was until after the original CAN-USA Free Trade Agreement was in place that the importance of that border crossing became so apparent... the development of a cross-border auto manufacturing cluster was furthered by the FTA and subsequently NAFTA, and other shifts in manufacturing and other sectors made international trade more important as well. That all made the bridge purchase a lost opportunity, something nobody in government foresaw (at least nobody with approval credentials)

The question of whether the approach in Windsor should have been upgraded earlier is an interesting one. Before the FTA I don't think anyone worried about it - things were sufficient for the cross border demand. Afterward it was more complex given devopment along Huron Church and debate about what to do.

But I would gamble that there was a political element on Canada's end that did not want to be seen as supporting an American private business. On the U.S. side the connections to the interstates were much better, as was Maroun's ability to purchase poltical influence, so less issue there.

[CF1Fan]

What's the expected timeline to replace Simcoe Street and Albert Street bridges in Eastern GTA? They look like they will fall down any time, even though MTO would have checked that their integrity for at least the next few years.

At least they did replace Henry and Brock St bridges, so it probably shouldn't be long.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Better late than never I guess. The 401 extension in Windsor is stupid expensive for what it is, but at least they had the foresight to 6-lane it.

That cut what.. half of the lights? I know the most impactful intersections are deeper in the city closer to the bridge but at least its something.

A few more years and the new crossing should bypass Highway 3 completely. The only people not happy about it are the Marouns / Ambassador Bridge companies and anyone employed by the businesses along Huron Church.

I wonder if they will ever build that second span... Could it all have just been a all-in bluff that was finally called?

The Herb Gray Parkway eliminates all of the lights to the new crossing.

[Dengler Avenue]

At the end of the day, what’s the harm in having 2 crossings in close proximity anyway? In White Rock, B.C., it’s actually pretty useful to have 2 (well, for passenger vehicles only, since large ones can only use one of them.)
The businesses on Highway 3 and the Moroun’s will take a hit, but I doubt it’ll be that big of a hit.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

At the end of the day, what’s the harm in having 2 crossings in close proximity anyway? In White Rock, B.C., it’s actually pretty useful to have 2 (well, for passenger vehicles only, since large ones can only use one of them.)
The businesses on Highway 3 and the Moroun’s will take a hit, but I doubt it’ll be that big of a hit.

The businesses on Huron Church mostly serve the locals that live in the area, so it shouldn’t really be a big hit for them.

There will be three vehicle crossings close together once the new bridge is finished, plus the rail tunnel.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by north 42

The businesses on Huron Church mostly serve the locals that live in the area, so it shouldn’t really be a big hit for them.

There will be three vehicle crossings close together once the new bridge is finished, plus the rail tunnel.

I think the new bridge will take almost all the business from Moroun's bridge, just because the new bridge will be connected right to the 401 and it's more convenient.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

They did the cable median barrier this summer, but I'm not sure if they did the resurfacing work. I don't think they did, when I drove through in July, they had the cones set up for the cable median barrier, but not for the resurfacing. I could be wrong though, I didn't make it that far this fall.

This is the installed cable median barrier taken in September:

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_174_east_EB_Sep20_24x16.jpg

I drove down that stretch of highway a few days ago, and oh boy, a lot of those cable barriers are torn to shreds already.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

I think the new bridge will take almost all the business from Moroun's bridge, just because the new bridge will be connected right to the 401 and it's more convenient.

Moroun owns several trucking companies. Which bridge do you think the trucking companies that his company owns will cross?

The old bridge is still going to carry a decent amount of traffic.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Moroun owns several trucking companies. Which bridge do you think the trucking companies that his company owns will cross?

The old bridge is still going to carry a decent amount of traffic.

That’s just moving money from one pocket to another though.
I guess it’s still better than giving it back to the government.

[Djeffery]

I think the AB will stay popular with local to local traffic as a lot of the commercial and longer distance travel moves to the GHB. People from the US side coming to the casino, people on the Canadian side going to a game, or example, will still use the AB or tunnel. At least, after an obligatory curiosity crossing on the GHB anyway.

[ScreamingViking]

I recall reading several years ago that the Ambassador Bridge was in need of major rehab. Has this been happening?

If not, the Maroun family will need to spend a fair bundle to keep their investment intact.

[sonysnob]

^ yeah, I don’t believe the Ambassador Bridge has ever really undergone a major rehabilitation project. Seeing as it’s more than 90 years old, one would think that the bridge would be nearing the end of its useful life.

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Huron Church Road is and has always been a connecting link. The province commits funding for the road despite the fact that it's a city street.

Lots of other important roads across the province are connecting links. Windsor is far from unique in that regard.

If the province were to have retained control over Huron Church as Highway 3, the City of Windsor wouldn't have been able to allow gas stations and fast food restaurants along the corridor wherever they so chose, so blaming the province for the condition of Huron Church isn't a fair or well informed argument.

That road should not even be a "connecting link"! No other "connecting links" even come close in comparison. It's the busiest international truck route in North America. There are 10 traffic lights on the whole route between Quebec and Texas...and they're all in Windsor. Who cares if the province commits a paltry amount of funding for Huron Church Road? It's not about funding - it's about quality of life. The neighbourhoods in West Windsor have some of the highest cancer rates in Canada because of decades of a constant stream of trucks stopping and starting. The city had no power to do anything about it. The fact that the province allowed that to exist for 60 years (while building and expanding countless highways around the GTA during that time period) is a disgrace.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Blitz

That road should not even be a "connecting link"! No other "connecting links" even come close in comparison. It's the busiest international truck route in North America. There are 10 traffic lights on the whole route between Quebec and Texas...and they're all in Windsor. Who cares if the province commits a paltry amount of funding for Huron Church Road? It's not about funding - it's about quality of life. The neighbourhoods in West Windsor have some of the highest cancer rates in Canada because of decades of a constant stream of trucks stopping and starting. The city had no power to do anything about it. The fact that the province allowed that to exist for 60 years (while building and expanding countless highways around the GTA during that time period) is a disgrace.

Dryden, has a connecting link on Highway 17, which carries all interprovincial truck traffic between western Canada and the south.

Dawson Road in Thunder Bay (the shortcut to the TCH) isn't even a connecting link, despite carrying a good share of interprovincial trucks -- much to the ire of the Thunder Bay council. Before the Shabaqua Highway opened, Arthur Street (the TCH mainline) was a connecting link west of the Thunder Bay Expressway as well.

Sault Ste. Marie has a very long connecting link agreement, again carrying all of the truck traffic on Highway 17.

Kapuskasing and Hearst both have long connecting link agreements, again carrying all interprovincial truck traffic along Highway 11.

I could go on.

Because the City of Windsor owned Huron Church Road, they got to litter the roadside with commercial establishments in order to maximize their property tax revenue along the corridor. Don't kid yourself, that's always been Windsor's goal in keeping Huron Church a city street. If the province had have owned it, the province would have restricted development along the corridor, which would have cost the city tax revenue. Full stop.

The province was heavily involved in the current design of Huron Church Road. I've seen the design report from the 80's. It had the provinces logo on it.

Blaming elevated sickness in West Windsor on Huron Church is a leap. While, truck traffic does undoubtedly cause pollution, the greatest source of pollution is the downriver industry on the US side, and specifically the steel mill at Zug Island.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Blitz

That road should not even be a "connecting link"! No other "connecting links" even come close in comparison. It's the busiest international truck route in North America. There are 10 traffic lights on the whole route between Quebec and Texas...and they're all in Windsor. Who cares if the province commits a paltry amount of funding for Huron Church Road? It's not about funding - it's about quality of life. The neighbourhoods in West Windsor have some of the highest cancer rates in Canada because of decades of a constant stream of trucks stopping and starting. The city had no power to do anything about it. The fact that the province allowed that to exist for 60 years (while building and expanding countless highways around the GTA during that time period) is a disgrace.

The province's power is limited. Until the feds pushed through an alternate route across the border, Huron Church Road was the only way.

Maybe before Windsor was built up it could have done something, but that time ended decades ago. The screaming from local businesses and city officials had the province expropriated private land and businesses would have dissuaded them. Bulldozing the inner parts of cities has never really been the province's way of building highways. At a large level, that's probably a good thing.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Dryden, has a connecting link on Highway 17, which carries all interprovincial truck traffic between western Canada and the south.

Dawson Road in Thunder Bay (the shortcut to the TCH) isn't even a connecting link, despite carrying a good share of interprovincial trucks -- much to the ire of the Thunder Bay council. Before the Shabaqua Highway opened, Arthur Street (the TCH mainline) was a connecting link west of the Thunder Bay Expressway as well.

Sault Ste. Marie has a very long connecting link agreement, again carrying all of the truck traffic on Highway 17.

Kapuskasing and Hearst both have long connecting link agreements, again carrying all interprovincial truck traffic along Highway 11.

I could go on.

Because the City of Windsor owned Huron Church Road, they got to litter the roadside with commercial establishments in order to maximize their property tax revenue along the corridor. Don't kid yourself, that's always been Windsor's goal in keeping Huron Church a city street. If the province had have owned it, the province would have restricted development along the corridor, which would have cost the city tax revenue. Full stop.

The province was heavily involved in the current design of Huron Church Road. I've seen the design report from the 80's. It had the provinces logo on it.

Blaming elevated sickness in West Windsor on Huron Church is a leap. While, truck traffic does undoubtedly cause pollution, the greatest source of pollution is the downriver industry on the US side, and specifically the steel mill at Zug Island.

Ridiculous! Huron Church road had commercial development all along it long before the 401 was even built.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by north 42

Ridiculous! Huron Church road had commercial development all along it long before the 401 was even built.

Sure.

But the McDonalds at the foot of the Ambassador Bridge doesn't look like it's from the 50s. Nor does the Tim Hortons. Or the Shoppers Drug Mart for that matter. Or the Popeyes. Or the Comfort Inn.

The highway has been continually redeveloped since the 401 was built 60 years ago.

My point is, if the province had have owned Highway 3, they would have slowly bought up the properties along Huron Church when they became for sale, and they would have turned it into a freeway decades ago. But then the city would have lost out on that property tax revenue. So the city owned the road, got regular stipends from the province for maintenance and upgrades, and also got to collect the property taxes from the businesses along the corridor.

As an arterial street, Huron Church was a net positive to the coffers of the City of Windsor, and that's why it took so long to finally get the political motivation to actually do something with the 401.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.clickondetroit.com/resizer/3...g.com/gmg/2DX5UIS7ZVBYBENDQRFY7IQ47Q.jpg

This is my first time seeing the detailed design on the U.S. side. Won’t cross-border traffic back up on I-75?