Canadian Maps and Graphics

[Architype]

^ I think this relates to BC & Alta. being newer provinces, places where people feel less connected to the past (as well as being less rural than some). Chances are you don't live anywhere near where your grandparents were born unlike much of Eastern Canada, and are less likely to see religion as a cultural attribute.

[Andy6]

Scepticism and religious agnosticism were common psychological traits among those who went west to make their fortune. Being self-reliant, remaking yourself, shedding the cultural baggage that held you back were part of that ethos.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Scepticism and religious agnosticism were common psychological traits among those who went west to make their fortune. Being self-reliant, remaking yourself, shedding the cultural baggage that held you back were part of that ethos.

There were also religious groups that wanted to escape persecution, too. The West offered respite from the hostility of the east.

[ssiguy]

We cannot discuss religiosity without discussing race and particularly ethnicity.

The reality is that newer immigrants tend to be more religious and conservative than the population at large. Contrary to popular belief espoused by our politicians and left-wing media, I am willing to bet that places like Victoria, Saskatoon, Windsor, London, Moncton, and St.John's are less religious and far less tolerant of religion in their politics and general social norms than in our big cities and especially Toronto and Vancouver.

Such big cities allow for the creation of ethnic ghettos on a city-ward scale not only inhibiting their interaction with the population at large but also with other minority ethnic and religious groups. The old joke in Vancouver of 'what is the border between China and India.......the Fraser River', is very true and never the twain shall meet. Anyone in Vancouver can confirm this.

In smaller centres there are no ethnic {and hence religious} ghettos so new immigrants tend to Canadianize much faster and easier as reality forces them to integrate as moving to and socialising only with their extended ethnic group confined to a particular geographic location is not optionally.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by wave46

There were also religious groups that wanted to escape persecution, too. The West offered respite from the hostility of the east.

Examples?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Examples?

Most famously, the Church of Latter Day Saints, who trekked to Salt Lake City, UT.

The Hutterites are another.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

We cannot discuss religiosity without discussing race and particularly ethnicity.

The reality is that newer immigrants tend to be more religious and conservative than the population at large. .

Yes and no. Chinese immigrants who are one of the largest groups in Canada, don't tend to be particularly religious. Though they may be an exception. I'd agree there are more groups that are religious than not.

Even a lot of legacy European immigrant groups (non-British and non-French) are often pretty religious as well.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

We cannot discuss religiosity without discussing race and particularly ethnicity.

The reality is that newer immigrants tend to be more religious and conservative than the population at large. Contrary to popular belief espoused by our politicians and left-wing media, I am willing to bet that places like Victoria, Saskatoon, Windsor, London, Moncton, and St.John's are less religious and far less tolerant of religion in their politics and general social norms than in our big cities and especially Toronto and Vancouver.

Such big cities allow for the creation of ethnic ghettos on a city-ward scale not only inhibiting their interaction with the population at large but also with other minority ethnic and religious groups. The old joke in Vancouver of 'what is the border between China and India.......the Fraser River', is very true and never the twain shall meet. Anyone in Vancouver can confirm this.

In smaller centres there are no ethnic {and hence religious} ghettos so new immigrants tend to Canadianize much faster and easier as reality forces them to integrate as moving to and socialising only with their extended ethnic group confined to a particular geographic location is not optionally.

The least devoutly religious place in Canada is probably a small town with a younger than average population, somewhere in Quebec.

Ironically the town's name might be Saint- something, and most of the streets might also be named for saints too.

[jigglysquishy]

As one of the few (the only?) religious member of this forum, I find Canada as a whole to be incredibly intolerant to religious people, particularly Christians. Seniors are overwhelmingly Christian, and under 30s incredibly hostile to religion.

If I tell someone I'm Catholic you'd think I just said the n word with the reactions I get.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

As one of the few (the only?) religious member of this forum, I find Canada as a whole to be incredibly intolerant to religious people, particularly Christians. Seniors are overwhelmingly Christian, and under 30s incredibly hostile to religion.

If I tell someone I'm Catholic you'd think I just said the n word with the reactions I get.

Not that I really want to get into this on this forum or take this thread off the rails...... but speaking as someone historically persecuted against by religious organizations (and who grew up in a very Catholic family), it's likely because religions are very slow to change in a rapidly changing society.

Religion brings comfort to some through the feeling of belonging, and all the other psychogical reassurances that come with - if you fit the mould, of course, - but to others, it leads to ostracism and at its worst, suicide (generally, LGBT people coming from these environments).

The tension comes from these beliefs being historically protected by charter rights, but increasingly coming under fire by general society given all the tax breaks and funding available to these institutions (depending on the province)... not to mention the hypocrisy of church cover-ups.

Very big difference from the "n-word" though, unless you want to bring racism into the picture (say hello to the residential school system).... These days it's far more likely for the über religious/Catholics in Canada to drop the F*G bomb, while defending their rights to hold such prejudices.

I remember, vividly, when Canada was preparing to allow gay marriage, and the Catholic Church's fierce opposition (partially funded by American organizations) - at that time I was still semi-obligated to attend due to family pressures. The day the "petition" against was available to sign in the lobby was the day I refused to further participate; if an organization is allowed to be offside the general protections of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, it should no longer have any say in such things.

(similar issues this year with various churches wanting to be outside of public health orders during a pandemic, while at the same time, feeling like they should be able to influence general public policy - though to be fair, the Catholic Church has generally been more compliant than other Christian groups have been).

Religion

[Acajack]

All true though it is a valid question as to why there is a discrepancy in the criticism of some religions vs. others.

In this day and age I don't think it is true that Christian religions wield power in Canada and other religions do not.

So either the others get a free pass for some reason, or they are just more crafty and subtle in how they exert their influence.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

All true though it is a valid question as to why there is a discrepancy in the criticism of some religions vs. others.

In this day and age I don't think it is true that Christian religions wield power in Canada and other religions do not.

So either the others get a free pass for some reason, or they are just more crafty and subtle in how they exert their influence.

It's partially the level of exposure. If Islam, Sikhism, Hinduism, Judaism, etc made up a more significant proportion of religious adherents, they would likely get more scrutiny (not that Islam doesn't already get that to some degree). The issue that generally crops up though, is that criticism of these other religions often brings accusations of racism/xenophobia.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The least devoutly religious place in Canada is probably a small town with a younger than average population, somewhere in Quebec.

Ironically the town's name might be Saint- something, and most of the streets might also be named for saints too.

With BC being by far the least religious province in the country I'm going to guess it is on the BC coast like Salt Spring Island.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nathan

It's partially the level of exposure. If Islam, Sikhism, Hinduism, Judaism, etc made up a more significant proportion of religious adherents, they would likely get more scrutiny (not that Islam doesn't already get that to some degree). The issue that generally crops up though, is that criticism of these other religions often brings accusations of racism/xenophobia.

Exposure isn't just related to the number of adherents.

In terms of people actually talking about their faith in public, be it in the media, in a university classroom, at the office, in the lunchroom, among my kids' friends, in politics, I'd argue that the most visible religion in Canada today is Islam. I am not only or even mainly talking about requests for accommodation, I am talking about discussions that include "as a Muslim, I..." No other religious adherents do that to any comparable degree in 2021. At least not in most of Canada. (I know that in the US, it's more common to hear people say ''as a Christian, I...") In second place in terms of visibility (stemming from individuals casually bringing it up) would probably be Indigenous beliefs, traditions and spirituality. But followers of most other belief systems including Christians don't really do that much at all.

Now, I am not trying to be deliberately obtuse. I also realize that alongside this there exists a bunch of stuff that makes Canada a Christian-normative society: many of our public holidays are Christian religious days, Christmas music on the radio, our legal system and other institutional foundations are based on Judeo-Christian origins, etc...

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes and no. Chinese immigrants who are one of the largest groups in Canada, don't tend to be particularly religious

Not quite. As of 20 years ago roughly half of the Chinese diaspora in Canada were religious:

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/89-621-x/89-621-x2006001-eng.htm

Originally Posted by StatCan

The Chinese community is significantly different from the rest of the population when it comes to religion in that the majority of Canadians of Chinese origin reports that they have no religious affiliation. In 2001, 56% of Chinese people aged 15 and over said they had no religious affiliation, compared with 17% of the overall population. As a result, Canadians of Chinese origin represented 13% of all Canadians who are not affiliated with any religion, whereas they made up 4% of the overall population. Among Canadians of Chinese origin with a religious affiliation, 14% were Buddhist, another 14% were Catholic and 9% belonged to a Protestant denomination.

So 44% still declared some sort of religious affiliation.

This (slightly more recent) article gives us that at least 38% of Chinese in Metro Van are religious to some degree.

https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blog...flock-to-christianity-more-than-buddhism

Originally Posted by Douglas Todd

About 24 per cent of the more than 450,000 people of Chinese descent in Metro Vancouver tell Canada census they are Christians, compared with only 14 per cent who say they are Buddhist.

There are more than 110 Protestant Chinese churches in Metro Vancouver, operating in Mandarin, Cantonese and sometimes English. In addition, there are dozens of Catholic congregations filled with Chinese people.

This huge network of mostly conservative Chinese Christians is well organized — served by more than 26 Chinese-language Christian newspapers, magazines, radio stations and theological organizations.

Compare this with a group like Filipinos and the difference is pretty stark:

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/89-6...on%20or%20another%20Christian%20grouping.

Originally Posted by StatCan

Almost all Canadians of Filipino origin belong to a Christian faith. In 2001, 81% said they were Catholic, while 15% belonged to either a mainline Protestant denomination or another Christian grouping. In contrast, only a relatively small proportion of the Filipino community, 3%, reported they had no religious affiliation.

Filipino is one of the fastest growing ethnic origins of Canadians, so it's fair to say that at least for that group far more of them are entering (or living in) Canada with religious tendencies than the general public, whereas with Chinese it's probably somewhere in between. It's possible that Chinese immigrants today are less likely to be religious than twenty years ago given the time span between something like the great leap forward then versus now, but there are still plenty of Chinese in Canada who are religious.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

As one of the few (the only?) religious member of this forum, I find Canada as a whole to be incredibly intolerant to religious people, particularly Christians. Seniors are overwhelmingly Christian, and under 30s incredibly hostile to religion.

If I tell someone I'm Catholic you'd think I just said the n word with the reactions I get.

I have a friend who is catholic and in his early 20s. He says he was bullied his entire life in the sporting world (he was a Team Canada snowboarder and ski jumper), and was even physically assaulted multiple times because of his faith. Crazy fucking stuff.

I couldn't possibly be less religious, but I have never hated a religious person for being religious, I just hate anyone who is a cunt. Unfortunately, too often religious people use their faith as an excuse to be repugnant cunts. Though that is not exclusive to any one faith, and of course atheists and agnostics have just as much capacity to be cunts, they're usually just less scape-goaty about it.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

As one of the few (the only?) religious member of this forum, I find Canada as a whole to be incredibly intolerant to religious people, particularly Christians. Seniors are overwhelmingly Christian, and under 30s incredibly hostile to religion.

If I tell someone I'm Catholic you'd think I just said the n word with the reactions I get.

The catholic church has a lot of baggage that secular people aren't willing to look past. If you want to belong to an organization that not only condones, but covers up, abhorrent behaviour (rape among other things) that is your own prerogative..... but you can't expect people to react favourably to it. Looking the other way, tolerating it, or arguing it's balanced out by good deeds is what allows it to continue.

The idea that Canada is intolerant of religion is absurd. People are free to practice whatever religion they want but we have Separation of Church and State in this country. That means religion is a private matter. It has no place in government. The government can't be seen to be sanctioning/supporting doctrine of any kind or imposing religious belief/doctrine on the masses. There used to be no Sunday shopping, for instance, because religious people said so. If religious people don't want to shop on Sunday that's totally fine but they don't get to tell everyone else they can't.

None of these things equate to intolerance. Canada ensures freedom of religion but also freedom from religion. Alot of religious people don't seem to get that it's a 2 way street. If you want religion to have influence on the daily life of citizens and want religion in government, that's what a theocracy is for. Canada, thankfully, is not one.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by isaidso

The catholic church has a lot of baggage that secular people aren't willing to look past. If you want to belong to an organization that not only condones, but covers up, abhorrent behaviour (rape among other things) that is your own prerogative..... but you can't expect people to react favourably to it. Looking the other way, tolerating it, or arguing it's balanced out by good deeds is appalling..... and what allows it to continue. As a member, you're enabling it. Fruit from the poisonous tree.

The idea that Canada is intolerant of religion is absurd.

Having read paragraph 1, one might be permitted some doubt about the correctness of paragraph 2.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Having read paragraph 1, one might be permitted some doubt about the correctness of paragraph 2.

Swinging in for what you think is a dunk, misfiring completely. Attacking the institution of the Catholic Church for its abhorrent and criminal past does not equate to an intolerance of religion. Unless, of course, your argument is that sexual assault of children and cultural genocide is a protected expression of faith.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by csbvan

Swinging in for what you think is a dunk, misfiring completely. Attacking the institution of the Catholic Church for its abhorrent and criminal past does not equate to an intolerance of religion. Unless, of course, your argument is that sexual assault of children and cultural genocide is a protected expression of faith.

It does not "equate to" it, but the hostile tone of the first part of the post doesn't sit very well with the claim in the second part of the post that the proposition that intolerance of religion exists in Canada is not only disputable or untrue but literally "absurd".