Alexandra Bridge replacement | Planning Stage - Page 6

OTSkyline · #**101** Posted **Nov 17, 2020, 3:29 PM**

This seems to indicate they will go with the cheap concrete bridge.

Nothing in Ottawa can be nice or visually appealing or contain an innovative design as we wouldn't want anything to "detract from Parliament Hill"...

Why is that the only nice thing Ottawa can have?

J.OT13 · #**102** Posted **Nov 17, 2020, 3:50 PM**

I would much prefer if they shut-down the existing bridge for a few years and made the necessary repairs so it could last another 100+. If they went with that approach, I feel like they could continue to keep it open for active transportation.

I hope the question is raised at some point as to why that's not possible.

I'll reserve my judgement on the design of a new bridge until concepts are released and until the new bridge is completed.

passwordisnt123 · #**103** Posted **Nov 18, 2020, 12:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FutureWickedCity

The new bridge is expected to be less imposing than the old in order to enhance views of Parliament.

That is really rich..... they are trying to make it sound as if their cheap minimalist bridge will somehow be an improvement over the Alexandra. This whole "consultation" is a master class of manufacturing consent for a project which has already been rubber stamped and shoved down our throats. I realize I'm in the minority of people here who is upset about the loss of this incredible piece of heritage. I wonder if people in NYC would be told to "chill out" if it was proposed to demolish the Brooklyn Bridge and replace it with something "less imposing to enhance the NYC skyline".

I disagree. They don't care whether the public consents so they wouldn't waste their time manufacturing any. I think this is more like Bart Simpson writing lines on the chalkboard. He's going through the motions, waiting out the clock before he can leave. Nothing will be learned in either process. And behaviour won't change.

OTownandDown · #**104** Posted **Nov 18, 2020, 2:04 PM**

Frankly, I think public consultation at THIS phase is a perfect play:

1. Let Frank your crazy uncle NIMBY complain in ALL CAPS on CBC NEWS that JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS RUINING OUR ECONOMY and also this bridge. 'Thats it, frank... let it all out now...' Better than when the design comes out and Frank is really pissed because he didn't even know about this project and how DARE they change a bridge Frank likes to look at when he's downtown on Canada Day.

2. Commentary by people like us includes overarching principles 'the bridge as a people space' 'the flow of wetness should flow into the design as water is the essence of wetness' 'The indigenous heritage of the river banks during a salmon run should be reflected in the realized traffic flow'. Etc. etc.

3. The NCC shows publicly that they did a consultation thing. The short list of overarching principles are used. The designer of the bridge uses the bullet point list to do 'stuff' that meets the principles and BAM there's your publicly consulted bridge.

Uhuniau · #**105** Posted **Nov 22, 2020, 5:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The new bridge is expected to be less imposing than the old in order to enhance views of Parliament.

Typical NCC/FedGov/Ottawa pretty-ism, implying that the existing bridge is a blight.

Quote:

The new bridge will be more than just a transportation link. It will be a "dynamic public space".

Oh, god, no.... that's a five-station BS alarm going off right there.

Harley613 · #**106** Posted **Nov 22, 2020, 5:25 AM**

Here is a side by side of what I would like to see with what is there :

BUT it's like they trying to mentally prepare us for this with some astroturf on top:

Aylmer · #**107** Posted **Dec 15, 2020, 3:38 PM**

It looks like the Alexandra Bridge is closing the car lanes from January to almost May. Be prepared for traffic on all bridges to... remain pretty much at current levels. I wish that PSPC would conduct a traffic study of the effects of the bridge's frequent closures so we can finally put to rest this idea that this bridge is in any way critical to the region's road network. If it were up to me, I'd just keep it closed to cars to extend the lifespan of the structure, save millions in temporary fixes before demolition, and save hundreds of millions in reconstruction.

Harley613 · #**108** Posted **Dec 15, 2020, 5:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aylmer

It looks like the Alexandra Bridge is closing the car lanes from January to almost May. Be prepared for traffic on all bridges to... remain pretty much at current levels. I wish that PSPC would conduct a traffic study of the effects of the bridge's frequent closures so we can finally put to rest this idea that this bridge is in any way critical to the region's road network. If it were up to me, I'd just keep it closed to cars to extend the lifespan of the structure, save millions in temporary fixes before demolition, and save hundreds of millions in reconstruction.

Replacing structural steel at this point is like putting a new engine in a 30 year old car with a failing transmission and rusted out floorboards.

Aylmer · #**109** Posted **Dec 15, 2020, 6:13 PM**

Exactly. But it's necessary if we want cars to be able to eke out a few more years of use on it. We should at least be examining whether it's actually worth it.

Tesladom · #**110** Posted **Dec 16, 2020, 1:15 PM**

Use the savings to build that damn Kettle Island Bridge!

J.OT13 · #**111** Posted **Dec 16, 2020, 3:26 PM**

In all the times the bridge closes, I've never seen any significant impact on traffic. The NCC should look into this to a. consider the possibility of removing cars completely and b. look into the possibility of preserving the heritage structure as an active+transit bridge, which should have a lesser impact than active+cars. We're already replacing the streel structure, all that's left is fixing the pillars/foundations, no?

J.OT13 · #**112** Posted **May 3, 2021, 1:49 PM**

Calls to save the Alexandra Bridge ae growing. Heritage Ottawa proposing what I've been saying for a while; remove cars from the bridge and only use it for tramways and active transportation.

Quote:

MEDIA RELEASE: NEW COALITION FORMS TO SAVE ALEXANDRA BRIDGE

Heritage Ottawa
Friday, April 30, 2021

THE ALEXANDRA BRIDGE COALITION WANTS A GREEN FUTURE FOR THE ALEXANDRA BRIDGE!

The Federal Government proposes to demolish the Alexandra Bridge.

The Alexandra Bridge Coalition proposes that the Bridge be retained for its national heritage value and significance, and repurposed for green infrastructure transportation.

KEEPING THE ALEXANDRA BRIDGE IS THE SUSTAINABLE THING TO DO:

Sustainability is a cornerstone of the Government of Canada’s policies on climate change. The greenest structure is the one that is already there. These principles should guide the debate on revitalizing the Alexandra Bridge.
Even pre-pandemic, the Alexandra Bridge was supporting greener transportation. It carried 40% of active pedestrian and cycling cross-river transportation, and only 9% of the vehicular traffic. This trend needs support not erasure.
A repurposed Alexandra Bridge could accommodate a green-friendly Loop Tramway, better linking Ottawa and Gatineau along a significant, tourist-dominated route connecting the National Capital’s major destinations. The National Capital Commission has been charged with studying tramway options, and it just makes sense to consider the Alexandra Bridge in those studies.
Conversion of the bridge to active transportation would alleviate much of the corrosion and load stresses brought on by vehicular traffic and would better ensure its maintainability and durability.
Conversely, a new bridge designed to carry increased vehicular traffic would have a negative impact on the social sustainability of the residential neighbourhoods at both ends.
Good sustainability practice calls for assessments of the amount of greenhouse gas emissions that would be produced by the demolition, materials removals, traffic detours, and construction of the new bridge, as opposed to retention of the existing bridge. But demolition is not necessary.

THE ALEXANDRA BRIDGE IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE:

The Alexandra Bridge is of national historic importance for its historical, engineering, and environmental significance:

The Alexandra Bridge was built by the Dominion Bridge Company in 1900, the first Canadian company to tackle an engineering feat of this scope.
The Alexandra Bridge is an outstanding work of engineering as recognized by the Canadian Society of Civil Engineers. The engineering value of the Alexandra Bridge resides in its innovative design, featuring all steel construction and mid-truss deck. It is internationally recognized as an outstanding example of the cantilevered steel bridge type.
The Alexandra Bridge is a key component of the nationally significant landscape of the Parliamentary precinct and its environs, encompassing monuments and landscape features on both sides of the Ottawa River.

The National Capital Commission’s own website refers to the Alexandra Bridge as a major national landmark. It is recognized for its iconic beauty and world-class workmanship.

THE ALEXANDRA BRIDGE COALITION SEEKS:

A reversal of the decision to demolish the bridge in favour of the revitalization of the bridge for active transportation.
In support of evidence-based decision-making, we request access to all studies: historical studies, engineering studies, options analyses, financial analyses, traffic studies, and environmental and cultural heritage impact studies.
A peer-review of the decision to demolish the bridge.
Full public consultation on the future of the bridge, not on how it should be commemorated after demolition. This includes consultations with the cities of Ottawa and Gatineau, and appropriate provincial partners.
Referral to the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada for consideration as a national historic site.
Stabilization and maintenance of the structure according to the Standards and Guidelines for the Conservation of Historic Places in Canada.
A management plan posited upon a future as an active-transportation bridge. This plan should be created through public consultation and signed by the minister responsible.

For more information, please contact:

Claude Royer [email protected] 613-295-4115 cellulaire (porte-parole, en français)

Jordan Ferraro [email protected] 613-862-5004 cell/text (spokesperson, English)

COALITION MEMBERS / CO-SIGNATORIES:
The National Trust for Canada

Heritage Ottawa

La Fédération Histoire Québec (FHQ)

Architectural Conservancy of Ontario (ACO)

Architects DCA

La Société d’histoire de l’Outaouais (SHO)

Transport Action Canada

Greenspace Alliance for Canada’s Capital

Action Vélo Outaouais (AVO)

L’Association des résidents de l’Île de Hull (ARIH)

L'Association du patrimoine du ruisseau de la Brasserie (APRB)

Lowertown Community Association

Manor Park Community Association

Action Sandy Hill

https://heritageottawa.org/news/media-release-new-coalition-save-alexandra-bridge

J.OT13 · #**113** Posted **May 3, 2021, 1:51 PM**

Saving the bridge means basically rebuilding it from the ground up, so is it still the same bridge? The same could be argued for may other heritage restorations after multiple restorations. How much of the West Block is original?

I usually scoff at replicating heritage structures, but in this case, it may be worth the investment. Any new design would be highly polarizing.

Acajack · #**114** Posted **May 3, 2021, 1:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In all the times the bridge closes, I've never seen any significant impact on traffic. The NCC should look into this to a. consider the possibility of removing cars completely and b. look into the possibility of preserving the heritage structure as an active+transit bridge, which should have a lesser impact than active+cars. We're already replacing the streel structure, all that's left is fixing the pillars/foundations, no?

It is however the bridge that uppermost level public servants living in the toniest parts of central Ottawa use to get to their jobs at Portage or Terrasses.

Aylmer · #**115** Posted **May 3, 2021, 2:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In all the times the bridge closes, I've never seen any significant impact on traffic. The NCC should look into this to a. consider the possibility of removing cars completely and b. look into the possibility of preserving the heritage structure as an active+transit bridge, which should have a lesser impact than active+cars. We're already replacing the streel structure, all that's left is fixing the pillars/foundations, no?

I agree. This is how I look at it:

For cars, it really is a bit of a useless bridge most of the time. Whatever gains in directness are more than offset by the lower speed and capacity. When there's even the lightest traffic, you're better to use Portage or McDC. Even when there's not traffic, it's about 60 seconds' savings over either. I'm always surprised how Google Maps would rarely recommend the Alexandra for trips, but it checks out.

For active transportation and tourism, the bridge is a key, indispensable link. It connects major regional bike routes and major tourism destinations on either end. There's every reason to make this particular bridge a pleasant experience for these modes, and a tourism destination in itself.

The Alexandra itself is somewhat less critical for regional transit. But it enables the the downtown loop, and that will be important to long term capacity.

J.OT13 · #**116** Posted **May 3, 2021, 2:22 PM**

It also gives further justification for the Kettle Island Bridge, if removing truck traffic from downtown isn't enough of to sell politicians on the idea (which apparently, it isn't for Watson). If the Kettle Island Bridge results in a net-zero increase in new vehicular lanes across the river (with the removal of two lanes from the MC, for two vehicle lanes and two bus or HOV lanes on the new bridge), then that should be enough to convince more people, including the Mayor of Gatineau and his replacement.

Acajack · #**117** Posted **May 3, 2021, 2:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aylmer

For cars, it really is a bit of a useless bridge most of the time. Whatever gains in directness are more than offset by the lower speed and capacity. When there's even the lightest traffic, you're better to use Portage or McDC. Even when there's not traffic, it's about 60 seconds' savings over either. I'm always surprised how Google Maps would rarely recommend the Alexandra for trips, but it checks out.

.

I assume you're looking at it in terms of "to Ottawa" in the AM, and "to Gatineau" in the PM.

From when I was in the area every day, I would often observe that the Alexandra was the only bridge that had as much traffic in both directions during both peak periods, and in some cases even had more Gatineau-bound in the AM, and Ottawa-bound in the PM.

Probably due to those federal government (executive?) people I was talking about.

But even if that's the case, it is true there is a huge amount of available capacity on the other bridges for Ottawans who work in Gatineau.

J.OT13 · #**118** Posted **May 3, 2021, 2:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I assume you're looking at it in terms of "to Ottawa" in the AM, and "to Gatineau" in the PM.

From when I was in the area every day, I would often observe that the Alexandra was the only bridge that had as much traffic in both directions during both peak periods, and in some cases even had more Gatineau-bound in the AM, and Ottawa-bound in the PM.

Probably due to those federal government (executive?) people I was talking about.

But even if that's the case, it is true there is a huge amount of available capacity on the other bridges for Ottawans who work in Gatineau.

And with a tramway, it would be just as easy, if not easier, to get across than by car. If execs don't want to use the tramway, than tough luck.

Aylmer · #**119** Posted **May 3, 2021, 2:44 PM**

Not even tough luck - McDC and Portage usually are free-flowing towards Gatineau at rush. Heck, I'm willing to bet that removing car traffic from Alexandra might even improve downstream traffic. Think of how Sussex gets backed up with people trying to bunch into the tiny left-turn lane towards Alexandra Bridge. Even assuming no modal shift, by diverting trips from very constrained Ottawa approaches, you could probably improve traffic flow. This is one of those instances where everyone wins.

OTownandDown · #**120** Posted **May 3, 2021, 2:46 PM**

Hear me out, not trolling (for once):

Is it possible to build the new bridge directly beneath the old bridge, adding a deck to carry trams for the new loop, and then remove the cantilevering side structures from the old (significant weight removed), removing the concrete deck from the middle/replace with wood (significant weight removed), and keeping just the middle portion for pedestrian use? Of course, at the same time the piers would be redone, and significant portions of the steel structure would be redone but it would be simpler because the old bridge is shored with the new bridge.

I'm thinking something with arches, or a fancy tension cable thing to ADD to the existing bridge?