CANZUK International - "merger" of UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand

[wave46]

This is one of those ideas - while interesting from an academic point-of-view - doesn't really jive with how the world works in the 21st century (so far).

The world has moved towards geographical blocs for awhile. CANZUK doesn't really work in that universe, Australia and NZ aside, who have their own deal going on.

Sure, we share a common 'parent', have a similar style of government and speak a common language, but the end story is that we're not really in each other's business much. Australia trades with Asia/China, the UK with Europe and us with the US.

I'd say that someone who is well-off enough to move from the UK, Canada, Australia or NZ to another of one of them has a huge advantage simply by speaking the language, having some marketable skills and a fairly traceable background history.

I've not immigrated to another country, but I can't imaging the Aussies passing up a skilled Canadian immigrant. Heck, a lot of places will gladly expedite the immigration process for in-demand careers.

Similarly, I don't think La Francophonie or something would work for similar reasons. Immigrating to France for a Francophone Canadian would likely be similarly easy, provided they had some skills.

It's kind of a 'solution' to a non-problem IMO.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

I mean practically speaking Canada and USA could have free movement pretty easily given how integrated the countries are. But 90% of Canada's identity is based on proving to ourselves and others how we're different from America. So our political and cultural establishment wouldn't allow it.

I suspect the US would have problems with that idea moreso than Canadians.

I realize there's TN status for working right now (for which you need some special skill set), but the idea of just anybody from Canada just moseying on into a job in the US would not go over well with the powers that be down there.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by wave46

I suspect the US would have problems with that idea moreso than Canadians.

I realize there's TN status for working right now (for which you need some special skill set), but the idea of just anybody from Canada just moseying on into a job in the US would not go over well with the powers that be down there.

I might have mentioned it before but the special skill set isn't that special or hard to get into the USA to work. A friend of mine from BC, Vancouver, is a Graphic Designer and he moved to New York about 8 or so years ago, he has since moved to LA, he just got stamped at the airport when he flew down. He has since qualified for a green card. Graphic Designers are pretty common and if that is all it takes to get in that's not too bad.

[Hybrid247]

An official parliamentary petition for CANZUK just went live: https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-2964.

[MolsonExport]

total waste of farking time.

[kwoldtimer]

This strikes me as, at best, a “nice to have”. I see little to no real benefit to Canada, since we already have FTA’s in place with all three countries. More mobility would be the “nice”, but what we already have in place with the USA has much greater practical benefit, istm. What’s in it for Canada needs to be much more clearly defined before it can be taken seriously.

[Hybrid247]

Personally, I think CANZUK would be good to diversify trade with close allies that we know have similar environmental, agricultural and socio-economic standards as us. That's not to say that the US shouldn't be our main and most important trading partner, or that canzuk would ever have the capacity to significantly impact that trading relationship anyways. As for free movement, I also see it as a thing that would be "nice to have". I don't see it having any significant negative impacts tbh.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Personally, I think CANZUK would be good to diversify trade with close allies that we know have similar environmental, agricultural and socio-economic standards as us. That's not to say that the US shouldn't be our main and most important trading partner, or that canzuk would ever have the capacity to significantly impact that trading relationship anyways. As for free movement, I also see it as a thing that would be "nice to have". I don't see it having any significant negative impacts tbh.

Diversify trade? We already trade with them, especially the UK (EU). What untapped potential are we missing from a freer relationship with Australia and New Zealand that we don't already have? We're talking about a difference of a few % in tariffs, and Australia and NZ hardly either produce things we need, and we probably don't produce a whole lot they need either.

[flar]

Don't we already trade and cooperate in many areas with these countries?

[foolworm]

The way things are going it might end up being CANZEW (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, England & Wales) instead, yeesh.

[Alegan]

The way the UK is, I'd rather they stay out. Just Australia, Canada, NZ. Actually, Once in place, we should then make another freedom of mobility union with the Nordics. Simply, middle powers with social democracies and mainly constitutional monarchies (not because they're monarchies, per se, but since the head of state and head of government are separate).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by foolworm

The way things are going it might end up being CANZEW (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, England & Wales) instead, yeesh.

Well NIreland could join the Republic, but if Scotland restores its sovereignty and is not allowed into the EU (courtesy Spain and Belgium), then they’ll need to join something, so CANZEWS.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Diversify trade? We already trade with them, especially the UK (EU). What untapped potential are we missing from a freer relationship with Australia and New Zealand that we don't already have? We're talking about a difference of a few % in tariffs, and Australia and NZ hardly either produce things we need, and we probably don't produce a whole lot they need either.

I'm no trade expert, but the fact that Canada and the UK are planning to engage in new trade negotiations next year with the stated goal of building on the existing CETA rollover agreement suggests there is definitely potential for more trade. I don't see much potential for Canada-Aus/NZ trade, admittedly, but Canada-UK is another story.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

I'm no trade expert, but the fact that Canada and the UK are planning to engage in new trade negotiations next year with the stated goal of building on the existing CETA rollover agreement suggests there is definitely potential for more trade. I don't see much potential for Canada-Aus/NZ trade, admittedly, but Canada-UK is another story.

It’s hard to see what we would export to the UK that we can’t export under the CETA continuation. We might export more if the UK can’t agree on a deal with the EU (depending on what happens today) but that wouldn’t require some sort of complicated political union.

[acottawa]

To me this seems like one of those things that is a solution in search of a problem. It is relatively straightforward to travel, trade, invest, study or relocate amongst the four countries. There is already significant political, military, diplomatic, etc.cooperation amongst the four countries. There is no geographic proximity, so there is no particular advantage to a Nordic or similar model.

[casper]

Originally Posted by acottawa

To me this seems like one of those things that is a solution in search of a problem. It is relatively straightforward to travel, trade, invest, study or relocate amongst the four countries. There is already significant political, military, diplomatic, etc.cooperation amongst the four countries. There is no geographic proximity, so there is no particular advantage to a Nordic or similar model.

Actually it is actually fairly complex and time consuming to migrate or work between these countries.

We should break it apart into its key components:

- Free travel - Open up trade to be free between these countries reduces cost for everyone. That is a good.

- Travel - Currently tourism travel is quit open for up to 3 months. This would be expanding it beyond that.

- Work - Currently not that easy. This would be an improvement.

- Live in the other country - Not currently easy. this would streamline the entire process.

- Military and Political union are a bit of a question mark. It is unclear what is gained by those two.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by casper

- Military and Political union are a bit of a question mark. It is unclear what is gained by those two.

Military - we can and do seamlessly meld into each other's military. We can provide a more unified front to our adversaries (hello Communist Party of China).

[MonctonRad]

I think the main impetus for CANZUK is historical and cultural (a rebirth of the anglosphere commonwealth). This however is different from the assertion by some that such an arrangement is racist.

These four nations just happen to be advanced liberal democracies with a shared constitutional monarchy, similar values, similar lifestyles and similar standards of living.

This makes the negotiation process of international agreements promoting trade and unfettered movement of labour fairly easy. Our labour standards, educational standards and employment qualification and certification standards are already similar. So are our courts and legal institutions.

I personally don't think there will be any movement towards joint political institutions. Our national identities in Canada, Australia and New Zealand are now too well established to allow for a return to the Empire. There will have to be some type of council to oversee CANZUK, but I can't imagine such a body having any legislative authority. This won't be a new EU.

Our militaries will remain separate, but I endorse the idea of enhanced military cooperation and integration. Canada has a close military relationship with the US through NORAD and NATO. A similar type of integration through CANZUK could also occur. China would take notice.

[Hecate]

Personally, I think CANZUK is a great idea. Would give our countries a little bit of freedom, and allow for easier movement of goods, people and services between the countries. I’m all for it. Would also help us with diversification of our economy and might help decrease our dependency on the United States for, well, literally everything, just a little bit.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Our militaries will remain separate, but I endorse the idea of enhanced military cooperation and integration. Canada has a close military relationship with the US through NORAD and NATO. A similar type of integration through CANZUK could also occur. China would take notice.

Our militaries are already pretty much fully integrated. A Canadian Naval Officer or Sailor could go on any ANZUK ship today and within a couple of days be fully integrated with the ships fighting, engineering, logistic or seamanship department.