O-Train Line 1/3 [Stage 2 | West Extension | Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[J.OT13]

I thought I heard during some meeting that the City wanted it completed early on in the project. I thought it was weird because the yard will be separated from the main line for many years still.

[Catenary]

I can't imagine construction will take long - it's basically a large prefab shed with a simple maintenance building which can be framed up and enclosed pretty quick. There's also no sense finishing it until the mainline is ready, since any trains are going to be delivered to Belfast. Unlike Belfast, there's going to be little to no maintenance work going on here until the extension opens.

[TransitZilla]

So we now know the Baseline/Algonquin extension will be Line 1 (Red), and the Moodie extension will be Line 3 (Gold?)



(from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHyOiXmsWcc)

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

So we now know the Baseline/Algonquin extension will be Line 1 (Red), and the Moodie extension will be Line 3 (Gold?)

Burnt yellow

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

So we now know the Baseline/Algonquin extension will be Line 1 (Red), and the Moodie extension will be Line 3 (Gold?)



(from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHyOiXmsWcc)

I wish the brown/gold was Line 2 and a different colour was chosen. I would have kept the blue for the future STO line.

[TheMatth69]

I wonder how they are going to mark/draw line 3 on official plans since the line will sometime stop at Blair and sometimes at Trim, and on weekend work only between Lincoln Fields and Moodie.
Also now that we have 4 different lines we can totally throw the names Trillium Line and Confederation line to the garbage.

[Aylmer]

Same for the L4 sometimes continuing up to Bayview. Honestly, if you can't easily create a visual representation of your system operations... They may be too complex. Elegance and intuitiveness have never been the strong suits of engineers.

I'm also somewhat perplexed at how these colours made their way through accessibility Once is an accident. Twice is malice.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

I wonder how they are going to mark/draw line 3 on official plans since the line will sometime stop at Blair and sometimes at Trim, and on weekend work only between Lincoln Fields and Moodie.
Also now that we have 4 different lines we can totally throw the names Trillium Line and Confederation line to the garbage.

From what I understood from the interview O-Train fans had with Pat Scrimgeour earlier this year, Line 3 will sometimes start at Blair (heading west) but it will never end at Blair (heading east).

And I think it is only late evenings that Line 3 will only be LF-Moodie.

As for Line 4 continuing to Bayview... I don't think OC has any intention of ever doing that. Partly for the reason you state- it would be way too complicated to explain.

[Truenorth00]

I wonder why they just don't run Line 1 from Algonquin to Blair and Line 3 from Moodie to Trim? Is the number of pax going from Orleans to Kanata can't be substantial enough to warrant overlapped service?

[Richard Eade]

I don't know how much real thought they put into this. They couldn't even put the line that continues south (Line 1) below the line that continues west (Line 3). Why on earth would they have a graphic that requires Lines 1 and 3 to cross? It only makes things look more complex for the user.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I don't know how much real thought they put into this. They couldn't even put the line that continues south (Line 1) below the line that continues west (Line 3). Why on earth would they have a graphic that requires Lines 1 and 3 to cross? It only makes things look more complex for the user.

Only reasoning I could think of is because in real life, Line 3 will go over Line 1 (the LF flyover). But that doesn't need to be on the graphic.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I don't know how much real thought they put into this. They couldn't even put the line that continues south (Line 1) below the line that continues west (Line 3). Why on earth would they have a graphic that requires Lines 1 and 3 to cross? It only makes things look more complex for the user.

Good point. It would have simplified the graphic.

In other news, a new temporary bus loop at Lincoln Fields looks to be opening December 6: https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/adjustments-to-lincoln-fields-station/





I admit I'm struggling to figure out how a route like the westbound 57 will be able to exit the parkway and access the new bus loop to be able to head west on Carling....

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I wish the brown/gold was Line 2 and a different colour was chosen. I would have kept the blue for the future STO line.

I don't think the colour scheme has to be permanent. They can change it again in the future.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I don't think the colour scheme has to be permanent. They can change it again in the future.

They've never changed in Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver.

[J.OT13]

There were questions recently about service patterns and possible complications with the line system when some trains start at Blair while others start at Moodie. Here are the notes I took based Shane's interview with Pat Scrimgeour earlier this year.

According to Mr. Scrimgeour, the Confederation Line service will be divided as follows if we use a 3 minute rush-hour frequency:

1. Trains heading west will split past Lincoln Fields, so a 3 minute frequency in the central section, Baseline and Moodie branches will be serviced every 6 minutes.
2. In the morning rush-hour, all Baseline bound trains will leave from Trim, while half the Moodie bound trains will leave from Trim. The other half of Moodie bound trains will leave from Blair. So trains every 3 minutes to Blair and every 4.5 minutes to Trim.
3. In the afternoon, all trains will head to Trim, so 3 minute frequency.
4. Outside rush hour, all trains would start at Trim and split at Lincoln Fields.
5. After 11 pm, Monday to Thursday, all trains from Trim will head to Baseline. Anyone heading to Moodie will transfer at Lincoln Fields to catch a "shuttle train" (similar to the Airport line). Frequency after 11 pm for both the main line and Moodie shuttle will run every 15 minutes.

Since all eastbound train end at Trim, the Line system envisioned by OC Transpo should not cause any confusion.

Here's the original interview.

• Video Link

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I don't know how much real thought they put into this. They couldn't even put the line that continues south (Line 1) below the line that continues west (Line 3). Why on earth would they have a graphic that requires Lines 1 and 3 to cross? It only makes things look more complex for the user.

I can think of a couple reasons for doing this.

1. It gives primacy to Line 1 (i.e. puts it on top visually), which will be the main line during late night hours with Line 3 only operating between Moodie and Lincoln Fields.
2. It may help people who are looking at this simplified map intuitively understand the complicated platform situation at Lincoln Fields Station. My understanding is that Line 1 westbound (to Baseline) will typically serve the western-most platform, while Line 3 westbound (to Moodie) will use the middle track (east platform). This line diagram illustrates that.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

I can think of a couple reasons for doing this.

1. It gives primacy to Line 1 (i.e. puts it on top visually), which will be the main line during late night hours with Line 3 only operating between Moodie and Lincoln Fields.
2. It may help people who are looking at this simplified map intuitively understand the complicated platform situation at Lincoln Fields Station. My understanding is that Line 1 westbound (to Baseline) will typically serve the western-most platform, while Line 3 westbound (to Moodie) will use the middle track (east platform). This line diagram illustrates that.

The diagram shows the evening service once frequencies drop to 15 minutes and passengers from the Moodie branch have to transfer at Lincoln Fields.


https://www.railfans.ca/otrain/line-1-stations/lincoln-fields

During peak and daytime hours, all trains will serve the centre platform. Here was the response form the Stage 2 team:

The design for Lincoln Fields that is being pursued is that of a centre platform and a side platform. This design decision doesn’t mean that everyone will always have to transfer, in fact, no one has to transfer up and over during peak, all eastbound trains go to downtown. Westbound, every other train will head to Baseline or Moodie. Customers may need to get off on the centre platform and wait for the next west bound train to continue to their final destination. During evening hours with a longer headway, Lincoln Fields to Moodie/Bayshore will operate as a shuttle from the single side platform requiring the up and over transfer for customers. The only other times the side platform will be used are in recovery mode from a service interruption, or when planned maintenance activities do not permit access to one of the tracks on the centre platform.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The diagram shows the evening service once frequencies drop to 15 minutes and passengers from the Moodie branch have to transfer at Lincoln Fields.


https://www.railfans.ca/otrain/line-1-stations/lincoln-fields

During peak and daytime hours, all trains will serve the centre platform. Here was the response form the Stage 2 team:

The design for Lincoln Fields that is being pursued is that of a centre platform and a side platform. This design decision doesn’t mean that everyone will always have to transfer, in fact, no one has to transfer up and over during peak, all eastbound trains go to downtown. Westbound, every other train will head to Baseline or Moodie. Customers may need to get off on the centre platform and wait for the next west bound train to continue to their final destination. During evening hours with a longer headway, Lincoln Fields to Moodie/Bayshore will operate as a shuttle from the single side platform requiring the up and over transfer for customers. The only other times the side platform will be used are in recovery mode from a service interruption, or when planned maintenance activities do not permit access to one of the tracks on the centre platform.

I stand corrected. Well then, the crossover in the diagram just makes things more confusing.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

I can think of a couple reasons for doing this.

1. It gives primacy to Line 1 (i.e. puts it on top visually), which will be the main line during late night hours with Line 3 only operating between Moodie and Lincoln Fields.
2. It may help people who are looking at this simplified map intuitively understand the complicated platform situation at Lincoln Fields Station. My understanding is that Line 1 westbound (to Baseline) will typically serve the western-most platform, while Line 3 westbound (to Moodie) will use the middle track (east platform). This line diagram illustrates that.

I think that your second point has been refuted, so I'll answer to your first - that it gives Line 1 primacy.

That is only if you think that the run to Algonquin (and, later, Barrhaven) should be Line 1 and not Line 3. At this point, the Confederation Line, current Line 1, goes from Blair to Tunney’s Pasture. Any westward extension could be the continuation of Line 1 – even the continuation to Moodie (and, later, Kanata). Does it matter if Line 1 or Line 3 is the one that continues into the late evening?

If the top line MUST be Line 1, then it should be that Line 1 travels between Kanata/Moodie and Trim during the day and between Kanata/Moodie and Lincoln Fields in the late evening. Line 3 will always travel between Barrhaven/Algonquin and Trim. Otherwise, put the top line of the graphic as Line 3 and have it go to Kanata/Moodie in the west.

While we are at it, how about swapping the colours of the Airport train and the Moodie train? That would, at least, give more differentiation between the Lines in the corridors. Maybe, if the trains were actually painted to highlight the different colours, then people could more easily tell which train was coming from a distance.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

[*]In the morning rush-hour, all Baseline bound trains will leave from Trim, while half the Moodie bound trains will leave from Trim. The other half of Moodie bound trains will leave from Blair. So trains every 3 minutes to Blair and every 4.5 minutes to Trim.

Since all eastbound train end at Trim, the Line system envisioned by OC Transpo should not cause any confusion.

Good Day.

The little detail that I cannot see is....

Where are those trains that 'start' at Blair westbound supposed to come from ? deadhead from Trim back to Blair ? I think not.

The only way is if some eastbounds end at Blair, and reverse in that pocket track just east of Blair.

So >>>>> the ops plan is ?????

EnJoy!