Winnipeg Construction X

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by ue

Well, that's literally what gentrification means.

But, also, you don't have to, but you generally do due to the way land and housing is made into a commodity in a country like Canada. So, you have the dilemma of a poorer community needing new sidewalks, or street furniture, or a new park, or densification, but all of these things inevitably draw attraction to first wave gentrifiers (usually artists, low level professionals, etc) who are interested in the working class 'character', who will then make the area 'trendy' to a more bourgeois clientele. At each stage, the previously existing population gets displaced due to higher costs as well as alienation. Revitalization inevitably displaces poor people who end up in the same neighbourhoods with lacking infrastructure because the middle and upper classes will eat up any neighbourhood deemed desirable.

I take it that you disagree with property ownership then. I see.

[ue]

Originally Posted by esquire

In a perfect world I'd like to see those two small commercial buildings on Provencher get retained but practically speaking I have no problem with them coming down. It's not like they are some kind of essential part of an otherwise intact strip, and there are still plenty of other buildings like them on and around Provencher.

I get the Jane Jacobs arguments for those kinds of buildings but at the same time I would not want to see substantial developments that could really help lift up the area get blocked on account of them. You need more than just the small, old commercial buildings... otherwise Selkirk Avenue would be the most vibrant street in Winnipeg.

Provencher is kind of goofy anyways. The streetscape is quite good, but the architecture (aside from a few buildings) is either shabby or tacky. Selkirk has some very interesting buildings and good urban bones that I'd rather see preserved. Also, Selkirk isn't a dead street.

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I take it that you disagree with property ownership then. I see.

Great response! And correct ! Why is it fair or necessary for poor people who've lived in a community to constantly get pushed out so some yuppie can fetishize some lost character that the poor people had made in the community? There should be a way of investing, revitalizing, and improving neighbourhoods that does not inevitably lead to gentrification.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ue

Provencher is kind of goofy anyways. The streetscape is quite good, but the architecture (aside from a few buildings) is either shabby or tacky. Selkirk has some very interesting buildings and good urban bones that I'd rather see preserved. Also, Selkirk isn't a dead street.

Selkirk is probably the most urban street in Winnipeg outside of downtown. And while it isn't dead, it has fallen on hard times in the last 30 years... the point being that having the right buildings isn't enough on its own to sustain a street.

[bomberjet]

Out of all the shabby crappy buildings there are on Provencher, these are the 2 that are getting demo'd. Definitely not the shittiest, most crappy shabby buildings. Just bump the development down to include the burned down car shop and we're all good, right?! Ownership be damned!

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.8918476,-...HrPmTLx2GEOpPlZq7mVGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[ue]

Originally Posted by esquire

Selkirk is probably the most urban street in Winnipeg outside of downtown. And while it isn't dead, it has fallen on hard times in the last 30 years... the point being that having the right buildings isn't enough on its own to sustain a street.

agree!

[Wigglez]

Seems like a lot of outrage at the loss of those 2 buildings on Provencher - hopefully the NIMBY's can save the day eh?

[buzzg]

I feel like there's a consensus that ideally the owners of the vacant lot would just swing a deal with the burned-down garage to just shift this development to the corner. Corner lot would actually make it even better. Sucks to lose those 2 useful and well kept buildings (I LOVE Dwarf no Cachette), but this is a huge net gain.

Also, Selkirk is actually a fantastic urban street design wise. Def wouldn't be walking around there for leisure, although it has improved a bit the last 5 years - especially since U of W added buildings. It definitely still has the bones for a grassroots renaissance down the road. The newer Thai restaurant is awesome... as often is the case, only takes a few new immigrant families starting businesses to give it some life. Could also stand to benefit from increase Indigenous/Metis entrepreneurship, a little Indigenous Corydon Avenue would be awesome.

[Gravity Wins]

Dwarf no Cachette is a unique restaurant in a nice, old building. There is no reasonable excuse to be tearing a place like that down with the number of vacant lots in prime locations in this city. Why does Winnipeg always seem to take one big step back before taking two steps forward? Makes no damn sense.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

Seems like a lot of outrage at the loss of those 2 buildings on Provencher - hopefully the NIMBY's can save the day eh?

Difference being the NIMBY's would be out actively doing everything in their power to stop it. Most here seem to be saying, meh. C'est la vie.

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Also, Selkirk is actually a fantastic urban street design wise. Def wouldn't be walking around there for leisure, although it has improved a bit the last 5 years - especially since U of W added buildings. It definitely still has the bones for a grassroots renaissance down the road. The newer Thai restaurant is awesome... as often is the case, only takes a few new immigrant families starting businesses to give it some life. Could also stand to benefit from increase Indigenous/Metis entrepreneurship, a little Indigenous Corydon Avenue would be awesome.

I couldn't agree more. I think there's a pretty solid argument that this is the most urban stretch of uninterrupted, nicely scaled storefronts in all of Winnipeg:

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.9157912,...ZnFiL_0i5rie0uVbgUjzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.9162458,...4d-CuDLFYxjRtVT6b25Ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.9164991,...a7aS4eaZl-fT6veDsnyaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That scale and feeling really reminds me of walking in Toronto, just without the businesses. I'd obviously like to see more indigenous entrepreneurship throughout the city, but having a concentration of indigenous owned businesses on this stretch would be really cool in my opinion.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

That scale and feeling really reminds me of walking in Toronto, just without the businesses. I'd obviously like to see more indigenous entrepreneurship throughout the city, but having a concentration of indigenous owned businesses on this stretch would be really cool in my opinion.

Was thinking the exact same thing looking at those street views. It has the huge benefit of barely losing any buildings, and many are older so even if fixed up rents would be reasonable. Could imagine something similar to what's going on in St. Clair West right now.

Also, the city should duplicate that road/streetscape design on lots of other 4 lane streets where there's (almost) always cars parked. Corydon in Little Italy, bumpouts on Marion, etc. It's fantastic.

[Hecate]

I love selkirk avenue, it’s an amazing little high street and it is definitely the most urban feeling neighbourhood in Winnipeg. It’s got the grit, the history, and the people. My dad taught in the area and growing up it was always somewhere we’d head, the bakeries, restaurants and shops. They All had something unique to offer and Everyone kinda knows everyone and everyone helps each other out. It’s a real urban community that kind of reminds of the neighbourhoods of Montréal or New York. Not so much architecturally, but in the way the people are and behave. You’ll see the shop keepers sitting on the stoop talking to the neighbours, it’s nice. It’s the people and the food that make selkirk special. eddies place was the best for breakfast. And the donut house makes the most delicious donuts!!! it’s honestly probably my favorite part of the city. The north end in general is awesome.

[pegcityfan]

Originally Posted by buzzg

^Interesting that Enterprise Riel supports this one at 8 storeys. Aren't they usually the driving force against all development in the area? Do they only want to see development on land they own(ed)? Seems fishy.

I wouldn't say they are the driving force behind developments in the area. More like the killers of developments. It does seem fishy as I was told they made demands that killed previous development on that exact property (a 4-5 story if i remember). Them "supporting" a project means nothing. They've killed projects even they were partnered / involved in with unrealistic demands. Getting through ER and the local nimbys is like no other area. There is a reason I've heard business owners say they stay away from setting up shop on Provencher or Saint-B all together.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by pegcityfan

I wouldn't say they are the driving force behind developments in the area. More like the killers of developments. It does seem fishy as I was told they made demands that killed previous development on that exact property (a 4-5 story if i remember). Them "supporting" a project means nothing. They've killed projects even they were partnered / involved in with unrealistic demands. Getting through ER and the local nimbys is like no other area. There is a reason I've heard business owners say they stay away from setting up shop on Provencher or Saint-B all together.

I said driving force against developments

[ue]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

I couldn't agree more. I think there's a pretty solid argument that this is the most urban stretch of uninterrupted, nicely scaled storefronts in all of Winnipeg:

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.9157912,...ZnFiL_0i5rie0uVbgUjzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.9162458,...4d-CuDLFYxjRtVT6b25Ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.9164991,...a7aS4eaZl-fT6veDsnyaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That scale and feeling really reminds me of walking in Toronto, just without the businesses. I'd obviously like to see more indigenous entrepreneurship throughout the city, but having a concentration of indigenous owned businesses on this stretch would be really cool in my opinion.

Yup. Selkirk is like a more solid and Indigenous Sargent Ave. Or like a non-gentrified Corydon, which has the length of Selkirk but not as good of bones. All 3 are probably the best high streets in Winnipeg, in terms of urbanism. Obviously Main and Portage have incredible bones but they're kind of a different animal, partially due to being turned into quasi-highways. And both Osborne and Provencher feel short, with the former having a terrible pedestrian experience despite its vibrancy.

[cheswick]

I remember as a child going to some kind of street festival they had on Selkirk. It's too bad the area has gotten so sketchy because it is a wonderful street. That random kid getting attacked with a hammer leaving a pizza shop not long ago. That's just nuts. The now closed Chicken Delight that was on selkirk kept their employees behind a barred baracade.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cheswick

I remember as a child going to some kind of street festival they had on Selkirk. It's too bad the area has gotten so sketchy because it is a wonderful street. That random kid getting attacked with a hammer leaving a pizza shop not long ago. That's just nuts. The now closed Chicken Delight that was on selkirk kept their employees behind a barred baracade.

The North End Fair used to happen on Selkirk in the 80s, that may be what you're thinking of... I'm not sure if it was some kind of Core Area Initiative-backed thing from that era or if it had a more longstanding history than that, but I remember it was a lot of fun for kindergarten aged me. I think it ended sometime in the mid to late 80s.

Selkirk Avenue in the 80s was much different than it is now. It was lined with a lot of shops and it was still kind of a bustling place. I used to be down there a lot when I was a kid... I remember being dragged along by my mom on Saturday morning shopping trips to Clifford's, Oretzki's, visits to the various delis, etc.

I remember when the Chicken Delight put up bars and glass at the cashier's desk... it must have been some time around the late 90s. It made an impression even on my friends who don't normally notice or care about such minor details. In hindsight, it was symbolic of Selkirk taking a turn for the worse.

I have noticed a very modest Selkirk Avenue renaissance in recent years but many of the new businesses are not public-facing... they are simply going there for commercial buildings at depressed prices. For instance, the old Chicken Delight is now a catering business. They use the kitchen and such but their doors are locked.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

The North End Fair used to happen on Selkirk in the 80s, that may be what you're thinking of... I'm not sure if it was some kind of Core Area Initiative-backed thing from that era or if it had a more longstanding history than that, but I remember it was a lot of fun for kindergarten aged me. I think it ended sometime in the mid to late 80s.

Selkirk Avenue in the 80s was much different than it is now. It was lined with a lot of shops and it was still kind of a bustling place. I used to be down there a lot when I was a kid... I remember being dragged along by my mom on Saturday morning shopping trips to Clifford's, Oretzki's, visits to the various delis, etc.

I remember when the Chicken Delight put up bars and glass at the cashier's desk... it must have been some time around the late 90s. It made an impression even on my friends who don't normally notice or care about such minor details. In hindsight, it was symbolic of Selkirk taking a turn for the worse.

I have noticed a very modest Selkirk Avenue renaissance in recent years but many of the new businesses are not public-facing... they are simply going there for commercial buildings at depressed prices. For instance, the old Chicken Delight is now a catering business. They use the kitchen and such but their doors are locked.

Think Gunn's is the only long time business (viable) left on Selkirk, spent lot of time in my youth going there!

[bomberjet]

Grandpa used to take me down Selkirk all the time to get one thing or another. This would be late 80's, early 90's.

I clicked one of the links grey garden shared. It was bargain store, thrift store, social service, boarded up theatre, empty store..

[BKB]

Eddy's Place is a nice diner on Selkirk that has been around for decades.