Halifax Active Transportation

[Franco401]

The notion of cyclists not contributing to construction funds is ludicrous as well. Cars and trucks cause exponentially more wear and tear on roads and the continued standard of car-dependency leads to greater and greater sprawl requiring pricey expansion of municipal services and the feds throwing more handouts to oil companies run by billionaires, if you want to talk about a waste of money.

Every cyclist, even the imaginary army of Mad Max-style gangsters we hear so much about on this board, is one less car on the road.

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by Franco401

The notion of cyclists not contributing to construction funds is ludicrous as well. Cars and trucks cause exponentially more wear and tear on roads and the continued standard of car-dependency leads to greater and greater sprawl requiring pricey expansion of municipal services and the feds throwing more handouts to oil companies run by billionaires, if you want to talk about a waste of money.

Every cyclist, even the imaginary army of Mad Max-style gangsters we hear so much about on this board, is one less car on the road.

I've likely paid over $100k in property tax and deed transfer tax over the last 20 years, and probably so has every 40-something cyclist I know. For the first half of that 20 years I was somewhat resentful of how much we were subsidizing sprawl.

The subsidization continues, and you may argue that it is necessary for a growing city,...but there is also a need to facilitate other forms of transportation through the city.

[Nouvellecosse]

I thought this was quite an interesting discussion about the role of the street as public space. Particularly the history of how the automobile lobby pushed for free reign by basically criminalizing other road users. Makes me laugh thinking about how some people actually have the nerve to talk about the "bicycle lobby".


• Video Link

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I thought this was quite an interesting discussion about the role of the street as public space. Particularly the history of how the automobile lobby pushed for free reign by basically criminalizing other road users. Makes me laugh thinking about how some people actually have the nerve to talk about the "bicycle lobby".

The video link must have blown a tire as it doesn't work. But are you actually suggesting there is no bicycle lobby? Seriously? The HCC and the EAC pull the strings of Mason and most of HRM Council, and have for years. Making such arguments only undermines whatever tiny amount of credibility the cycling activists may have.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Franco401

The notion of cyclists not contributing to construction funds is ludicrous as well. Cars and trucks cause exponentially more wear and tear on roads and the continued standard of car-dependency leads to greater and greater sprawl requiring pricey expansion of municipal services and the feds throwing more handouts to oil companies run by billionaires, if you want to talk about a waste of money.

So it sounds like you're saying that f only we banned vehicles entirely, only permitted bicycles to use our road network, and forced everyone to live in commie blocks on the peninsula then everything would be hunky-dory.



I am sad to see that the delusional thinking of the cycling zealots is showing no sign of abating.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The video link must have blown a tire as it doesn't work. But are you actually suggesting there is no bicycle lobby? Seriously? The HCC and the EAC pull the strings of Mason and most of HRM Council, and have for years. Making such arguments only undermines whatever tiny amount of credibility the cycling activists may have.

These are pretty grassroots organizations, it's not like Louis Garneau, Giant and Cannondale are donating millions to the HCC.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So it sounds like you're saying that f only we banned vehicles entirely, only permitted bicycles to use our road network, and forced everyone to live in commie blocks on the peninsula then everything would be hunky-dory.



I am sad to see that the delusional thinking of the cycling zealots is showing no sign of abating.

Keith, I think you're shoving words into his mouth. Not one person on this thread advocated for banning vehicles entirely.

[Citizen_Bane]

I love all forms of active transportation. I love Love LOVE bicycle paths and lanes....until they start limiting or restricting the growth of our city centre. Check out the top ten biggest industries on our planet and defend why we as a city should not participate in them and yet still expect success. Single file lanes of automobile traffic into and out of a city core in the absence of a modern desirable public transit option is a recipe for failure. Perhaps members of our city council will self identify as Mennonite one day and I'll then understand their attitude towards the modern automobile. Oh, did you hear? The Ford Mustang is now electric. Imagine the very near future when all cars will be electric and soon thereafter the grid fully green. "people gotta move". ...and they will.

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by Citizen_Bane

I love all forms of active transportation. I love Love LOVE bicycle paths and lanes....until they start limiting or restricting the growth of our city centre. Check out the top ten biggest industries on our planet and defend why we as a city should not participate in them and yet still expect success. Single file lanes of automobile traffic into and out of a city core in the absence of a modern desirable public transit option is a recipe for failure. Perhaps members of our city council will self identify as Mennonite one day and I'll then understand their attitude towards the modern automobile. Oh, did you hear? The Ford Mustang is now electric. Imagine the very near future when all cars will be electric and soon thereafter the grid fully green. "people gotta move". ...and they will.

Which artery into the city has been turned into a single file lane because of bike lane?

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Citizen_Bane

I love all forms of active transportation. I love Love LOVE bicycle paths and lanes....until they start limiting or restricting the growth of our city centre. Check out the top ten biggest industries on our planet and defend why we as a city should not participate in them and yet still expect success. Single file lanes of automobile traffic into and out of a city core in the absence of a modern desirable public transit option is a recipe for failure. Perhaps members of our city council will self identify as Mennonite one day and I'll then understand their attitude towards the modern automobile. Oh, did you hear? The Ford Mustang is now electric. Imagine the very near future when all cars will be electric and soon thereafter the grid fully green. "people gotta move". ...and they will.

Then you have good reason to keep loving bike lanes, because so far there’s no evidence of them restricting growth in our city centre. A good AT network supports transit ridership so it’s not as if they’re at odds with each other. It also supports public health, efficient use of space and a conservative use of public funds. So you see, it’s not just an environmental issue. With that in mind, even from an environmental standpoint electric cars will help the world but not save it, and a “fully green” grid is ages away.

[Dartguard]

[QUOTE=Nouvellecosse;9109256]I thought this was quite an interesting discussion about the role of the street as public space. Particularly the history of how the automobile lobby pushed for free reign by basically criminalizing other road users. Makes me laugh thinking about how some people actually have the nerve to talk about the "bicycle lobby".


Pop on over to the Halifax cycling coalitions twitter feed. Koolaid all over the place.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Pop on over to the Halifax cycling coalitions twitter feed. Koolaid all over the place.

The argument isn’t that cycling groups don’t have opinions or that they don’t lobby local politicians. The point is that they and their actions are small potatoes compared to what we’ve seen on the part of automobile interest groups.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

The argument isn’t that cycling groups don’t have opinions or that they don’t lobby local politicians. The point is that they and their actions are small potatoes compared to what we’ve seen on the part of automobile interest groups.

The cycling coalition may still have the ear of certain sympathetic city councilors though, and thus disproportionately influence municipal politics and policy.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

The argument isn’t that cycling groups don’t have opinions or that they don’t lobby local politicians. The point is that they and their actions are small potatoes compared to what we’ve seen on the part of automobile interest groups.

Well, that's because the vast majority of the tax-paying population drives vehicles. People doing something they want/like to do tend to want to be able to keep doing that without the heavy hand of govt interfering with that.

The "automotive interest groups" referred to in a previous post really needs to be backed up by some useful examples. Otherwise it edges close to bizarro conspiracy theories.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The cycling coalition may still have the ear of certain sympathetic city councilors though, and thus disproportionately influence municipal politics and policy.

If Haligonians felt as if Austin, Smith, Cleary and Mason were puppets to a group not representing the majority they could have easily lost their seats. But we’re fresh out of an election and they’re still here because people in their districts like the direction.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Well, that's because the vast majority of the tax-paying population drives vehicles. People doing something they want/like to do tend to want to be able to keep doing that without the heavy hand of govt interfering with that.

The "automotive interest groups" referred to in a previous post really needs to be backed up by some useful examples. Otherwise it edges close to bizarro conspiracy theories.

I used that term because I don’t want to pin the blame on average suburban dwellers. Here is a recent example from France, which banned a bike advertisement for its negative take on the automobile industry:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguar...-bike-tv-ad-for-creating-climate-of-fear
France bans Dutch bike TV ad for creating ‘climate of fear’ about cars
Ad for VanMoof bike unfairly discredits automobile industry, says watchdog
Daniel Boffey in Brussels
Wed 1 Jul 2020 05.41 EDT

A TV commercial for a Dutch-made bicycle has been banned by France’s advertising watchdog for creating a “climate of fear” about cars.
Despite being aired on Dutch and German television, the Autorité de régulation professionnelle de la publicité (ARPP) said the ad for the VanMoof bike unfairly discredited the automobile industry.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Citizen_Bane

Oh, did you hear? The Ford Mustang is now electric.

For the sake of accuracy, Ford has introduced an electric SUV and attached the Mustang name to it, essentially making it an available (or soon to be available) model of Mustang.

The gasoline-powered 2-door Mustang coupe is still available and is selling well, with a next-generation platform (gas powered and gas/electric hybrid) in the works. The standard Mustang coupe and the Mustang Mach-E (electric SUV) have virtually nothing in common other than a name.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

Now we return to the regularly scheduled bicycle vs car catfight, already in progress...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

If Haligonians felt as if Austin, Smith, Cleary and Mason were puppets to a group not representing the majority they could have easily lost their seats. But we’re fresh out of an election and they’re still here because people in their districts like the direction.

Clearly not. Don't mistake disinterest for support. As has been discussed here many times, the best way to get re-elected as a Councillor in HRM is to get elected the first time given that most voters don't pay any attention at all to the antics of a particular Council member who goes along with the groupthink at city hall. After that, you really, REALLY need to screw up (i.e. do a Zurawski) to lose your sinecure.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Clearly not. Don't mistake disinterest for support. As has been discussed here many times, the best way to get re-elected as a Councillor in HRM is to get elected the first time given that most voters don't pay any attention at all to the antics of a particular Council member who goes along with the groupthink at city hall. After that, you really, REALLY need to screw up (i.e. do a Zurawski) to lose your sinecure.

Voter turnout was pretty low**, but those candidates have the urban voter base that largely supports or does not oppose AT initiatives. If any of those 4 applied the same platform to Tantallon area they wouldn’t stand a chance. Let’s say Mason loses or decides not to run the next election, it’s possible you wouldn’t be a fan of his replacement either.

**Please note voter turnout statement is incorrect, as corrected by following poster.

In all seriousness Mr. Placer, I get the idea that you don’t oppose cyclists in principle but instead oppose ideas associated with them. You see the cyclist as the embodiment of a worldview and whole range of ideas in opposition to yours. Therefore, you see it fitting to poo on the party any time a new AT project or article is shared because you feel you’re preventing the progression of other crazy but unrelated ideas. You can keep doing that, but I’ll be here to bring new points and justify things that probably seem crazy to a few.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Voter turnout was pretty low, but those candidates have the urban voter base that largely supports or does not oppose AT initiatives.

Voter turnout was the highest it's been since 2004 (48%), when Sunday shopping was an issue. This year 40% of those who could vote, did, representing an increase over the previous election in which less than 30% of people voted.