West Gatineau Tramway & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

So with a downtown loop, to get to the airport from my house in the Plateau, I'd get on a tram to downtown Gatineau , transfer to the loop tram, get off in downtown Ottawa, transfer to the Confederation line, get off at Bayview, transfer to the Trillium Line, get off at South Keys, transfer to the Airport Spur, get off at the airport. Five trains, compared to two buses today. That's absolutely wild. I wonder if there is even a place in New York City from which you would take five different public transportation vehicles to get to JFK, La Guardia or Newark.

No transfers from the Aylmer tram to the loop. The loop would be part of the STO tram. Still 4 trains. But that's the City of Ottawa's lack of vision. Ottawa should have built an airport-downtown rail link, just like Vancouver and Toronto have built, Montreal is building and the Infrastructure Bank in proposing for Calgary.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

No transfers from the Aylmer tram to the loop. The loop would be part of the STO tram. Still 4 trains. But that's the City of Ottawa's lack of vision.

Damn you're fast, I already revised my post to six trains when I realized it would be an extra transfer at Chemin d'Aylmer because the Plateau tram is a spur. Even if the loop would be part of the Aylmer-Downtown line it would still be five trains like I said before I revised it two minutes later.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Damn you're fast, I already revised my post to six trains when I realized it would be an extra transfer at Chemin d'Aylmer because the Plateau tram is a spur. Even if the loop would be part of the Aylmer-Downtown line it would still be five trains like I said before I revised it two minutes later.

Plateau will be spur? Do we have confirmation of this? I imagined it would be interlined like Confederation west.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Harley613

So with a downtown loop, to get to the airport from my house in the Plateau, I'd get on a tram to downtown Gatineau , transfer to the loop tram, get off in downtown Ottawa, transfer to the Confederation line, get off at Bayview, transfer to the Trillium Line, get off at South Keys, transfer to the Airport Spur, get off at the airport. Five trains, compared to two buses today.

You must not take transit to the airport often. For the past two years, it's been at least two transfers from anywhere in Gatineau (STO to CL, CL to 97).

The tram wouldn't be any worse for you for that particular trip. Remember, the loop isn't something you'd transfer onto - your tram would run on it, allowing a direct transfer to the CL. The rest of the silly airport spur issue is a problem of OC's making, unrelated to this project.

In time, PoW will likely be rebuilt as a secondary link, cutting it from 3 transfers to 2. It'll only become truly practical once Ottawa actually ponies up the resources to properly electrify and double-track Line 2, but that's still unrelated to this project.


Backing up, let's remember that the airport is a very occasional destination. There's not a significant volume of people heading from the Plateau to the airport every day. It'd certainly be great for that and every trip to be super practical. But if it isn't, it's not materially significant to the success of the entire project. Not in the same way that, say, a capacity bottleneck at Bayview for the tens of thousands of daily downtown-bound trips would be.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Plateau will be spur? Do we have confirmation of this? I imagined it would be interlined like Confederation west.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-aylmer-ottawa-light-rail-1.4713843

A second spur would do a near-loop through Gatineau's Plateau neighbourhood, starting at Alexandre-Taché and boulevard Saint-Raymond, then following boulevard du Plateau and chemin Vanier to des Allumetières, passing through 12 stations.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Plateau will be spur? Do we have confirmation of this? I imagined it would be interlined like Confederation west.

Unless Harley has access to information that hasn't been released, then no, nothing indicates that Plateau would require an additional transfer. During the consultations and in their subsequent materials, everything indicates an interlining.



"One transfer would be required for any users not located on the rapid transit line" So anyone located on the line doesn't have a transfer. As the Plateau is on the rapid transit line, it wouldn't involve a transfer.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

You must not take transit to the airport often. For the past two years, it's been at least two transfers from anywhere in Gatineau (STO to CL, CL to 97).

The tram wouldn't be any worse for you for that particular trip. Remember, the loop isn't something you'd transfer onto - your tram would run on it, allowing a direct transfer to the CL. The rest of the silly airport spur issue is a problem of OC's making, unrelated to this project.

In time, PoW will likely be rebuilt as a secondary link, cutting it from 3 transfers to 2. It'll only become truly practical once Ottawa actually ponies up the resources to properly electrify and double-track Line 2, but that's still unrelated to this project.


Backing up, let's remember that the airport is a very occasional destination. There's not a significant volume of people heading from the Plateau to the airport every day. It'd certainly be great for that and every trip to be super practical. But if it isn't, it's not materially significant to the success of the entire project. Not in the same way that, say, a capacity bottleneck at Bayview for the tens of thousands of daily downtown-bound trips would be.

I did not realize you have to transfer from STO to Confed to the 97 now, but that makes sense. Regardless, the loop WOULD be something I'd transfer onto at Chemin d'Aylmer. It would be six (EDIT: 5 SORRY) trains compared to two buses and a train right now. If they build the POW link it would be four trains.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-aylmer-ottawa-light-rail-1.4713843

A second spur would do a near-loop through Gatineau's Plateau neighbourhood, starting at Alexandre-Taché and boulevard Saint-Raymond, then following boulevard du Plateau and chemin Vanier to des Allumetières, passing through 12 stations.

I wouldn't put too much thought into that news article. Our definition of spur isn't necessarily the same as the media's definition. It's similar to how they call the Trillium Line "O-Train" and Confederation Line the "LRT", when both are part of the same O-Train network. Or how the Civic Hospital's new website and promotional videos talk about a "fully integrated" Carling station. We won't know for sure until the STO and the City of Gatineau confirm how it will operate.

Regardless, it's already a stretch to expect people to take three trains to the airport, let alone 4 to 6. I imagine a few tourists might take it not knowing the true number of transfers. For locals, we might see more ridership to the EY Centre (to save on the parking and traffic headaches) than the airport.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I did not realize you have to transfer from STO to Confed to the 97 now, but that makes sense. Regardless, the loop WOULD be something I'd transfer onto at Chemin d'Aylmer.

I assume you mean Laurier.
Is there something that's making you think there'd be a transfer onto the loop? What information does exist on the idea seems to communicate rather clearly that trains would run through the loop, not stop at it.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I wouldn't put too much thought into that news article. Our definition of spur isn't necessarily the same as the media's definition. It's similar to how they call the Trillium Line "O-Train" and Confederation Line the "LRT", when both are part of the same O-Train network. Or how the Civic Hospital's new website and promotional videos talk about a "fully integrated" Carling station. We won't know for sure until the STO and the City of Gatineau confirm how it will operate.

Everything I have seen indicated there will be a transfer station at St. Raymond and Chemin d'Aylmer

[Harley613]

[IMG]Trip to Airport by harley613, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Everything I have seen indicated there will be a transfer station at St. Raymond and Chemin d'Aylmer

It assume it would be a transfer station only in the sense that Lincoln Fields is a transfer station.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

It assume it would be a transfer station only in the sense that Lincoln Fields is a transfer station.

Regardless, I'd be changing into five different vehicles, six if the loop is on it's own and not inline with the main Aylmer-Gatineau line.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Regardless, I'd be changing into five different vehicles, six if the loop is on it's own and not inline with the main Aylmer-Gatineau line.

I'm still going to say 4 different vehicles, 5 if its late in the off-peak. But no one can really say for sure at this point.

[Harley613]

I can not find a way to get to Pearson from anywhere in the Golden Horseshoe that uses five or more public transportation vehicles on Google Maps.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Everything I have seen indicated there will be a transfer station at St. Raymond and Chemin d'Aylmer

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if that was the plan. I wish the Plateau line continued down Allumettières and interlined with the the loop at Portage, or used Gamelin to do the same, serving the Hull Hospital on its way. If they cut corners with the route (skipping over thousands of potential riders), they may cut corners with the interline at St-Raymond as well. As Multi-modal suggested though, at this point I'm expecting it will be a Lincoln Fields type transfer.

Originally Posted by Harley613

Regardless, I'd be changing into five different vehicles, six if the loop is on it's own and not inline with the main Aylmer-Gatineau line.

Ya, the only way I would take the train to the airport is if I lived on the Trillium Line. Otherwise I would get someone to drive me or pay the parking.

Going to EY, I would be willing to take three trains with a travel time of 45 minutes max because it doesn't involve dragging luggage around.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Everything I have seen indicated there will be a transfer station at St. Raymond and Chemin d'Aylmer

The STO staff at the consultations were clear that it wouldn't involve a transfer, and it doesn't appear anything's changed.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

The STO staff at the consultations were clear that it wouldn't involve a transfer, and it doesn't appear anything's changed.

Not that Wikipedia is a source but I guess the wiki needs to be changed because it says there would be an interchange at St. Raymond/Ch. de Aylmer if they went All Tram, but the Plateau line would be continuous to downtown if they went with a Plateau tram/Aylmer BRT option.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatineau_LRT

[Acajack]

A transfer at St-Raymond/Taché isn't necessarily simpler or cheaper. So not sure why they would do that.

You typically would need a bigger station and more infrastructure and space for trains running on the spur that terminates/begins there, whereas if you interline you just need some additional track and switches, plus it's an easier way to increase the frequency on the segment west of there, so more bang for your buck from St-Raymond all of the way into downtown.

[Richard Eade]

Not precisely on topic, but, perhaps something that should be kept in mind, since we seem to be including ‘The Loop’ in this thread:

It is not only the Alexandra Bridge that needs to be replaced in the near future; the Chaudière Bridges are also approaching the end of their lives. Putting the tram on a rebuilt Chaudière crossing could put a tram line down through ZIBI and right beside the Canadian War Museum. If ‘The Loop’ is to be of benefit to tourists, then that might be a better option than the Portage Bridge (which is still in, relatively, good shape).

One of the reasons that the STO chose the Portage crossing was that it allowed the Tram to get closer to the large government campuses. If there is a loop that passes along Laurier, between the Alexandra and Chaudière replacements, then that becomes a moot point. The Portage crossing would still win on speed, though.