LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[Bikemike]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I'm just talking the people. They're the complete opposite of la's energetic and creative population. To say thats not special because you don't respect the industry is dishonest.

Re-read my post re: DC's economy being a giant extension of the US gov.

Also, I'm not basing my comment on the issue of my personal respect for the industry, but rather, for how reflexive appeals to the hollywood's modest economic value only serve to illustrate the lack of a powerful intellectual magnet for LA. This rightfully and necessarily requires an objective metric (revenue). Otherwise it's just hot air. Hollywood is big culturally, without doubt. But not economically, and thus its role in shaping LA's more tangible urban identity and sense of place is being put to question here.

We can have a discussion about why I think Hollywood, being a factory of images and illusions has understandably minimal impact on greater LA's urban form, and LAs connection (or I should say, lack thereof) to urban form and sense of place. But that would be even more off topic.

Ultimately, though, my point is that LA lacks a crucial component that exists in leading industrialized global cities - a large skilled, educated, urban class. This shortcoming is the reason why LA is slow to embrace and generate URBAN trends seen in other global cities with a strong sense of urban form and identity. There is an economic reason for this shortcoming.

[LA21st]

I didn't realize you're talking about the urban form mostly.
That's just one part of it, and sure, probably true.
Hollywood hasn't affected la urban form but it broadcasts image all over the world daily. That's still of consequences.
Few people in other countries know what Dallas or Houston or Atlanta is like despite having more headquarters. But they know LA.

Agree to disagree on that

[Bikemike]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Trendsetting is not just about urban development trends either. That's not what most people think of with that term.

True, but conversely, trendsetting is not just about youth-culture, a trend which seems to be the only thing LA sets.

That's exactly my point, actually.

Urban trends - multi-modalism, transit, the environment, vision-zero, shared-streets, sprawl. These trends are more profound and lasting. They are what LA fails to embrace. There's a deep-seated, economic reason for LAs inability to value what Seattle (or SF) another sprawl-entrenched, car-dependent city, seems to totally embrace.

In a time where progressive cities of the world are hyper eco-vigilant about carbon, climate-change, LAs lack of leadership, lack of leadership, and slowness to get on this fundamental urban train tells volumes about its urban culture (and economy), whatever about melrose blvd's latest consignment/thrift store opening.

[Bikemike]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Few people in other countries know what Dallas or Houston or Atlanta is like despite having more headquarters. But they know LA.

do they, really, though?

To know LA is to know LA's built form. The problem that I'm conveying is that LA doesn't even know LA's built form. For a purported "progressive" global city, there is an utter lack of awareness of issues that I've mentioned above.

I guess the HQ's in a vacuum argument is a flawed, but still relevant argument. It's about having a large skilled, educated labor-force, for which having lots of advanced-industry HQs (eg tech, biotech, finance) definitely helps. It's also being robustly blue, which differentiates LA from your Dallas or ATL examples. A combo of highly educated and blue tends to create a population which embraces the above urban trends. LA lacks this (lacks educated labor) and thus operates more like Dallas or ATL - you can witness this in LA's incessant doubling-down on sprawl-spending, and, beyond purely reactive measures (to alternatize traffic via measures M, R) exerts minimal proactive effort to change "business as usual".

If you disagree, then try (at least in your own mind) to justify why Seattle is the anti-LA phenomenon that it is, despite being cut from the same suburban, car-dependent cloth

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Bikemike

do they, really, though?

To know LA is to know LA's built form. The problem that I'm conveying is that LA doesn't even know LA's built form. For a purported "progressive" global city, there is an utter lack of awareness of issues that I've mentioned above.

I guess the HQ's in a vacuum argument is a flawed, but still relevant argument. It's about having a large skilled, educated labor-force, for which having lots of advanced-industry HQs (eg tech, biotech, finance) definitely helps. It's also being robustly blue, which differentiates LA from your Dallas or ATL examples. A combo of highly educated and blue tends to create a population which embraces the above urban trends. LA lacks this (lacks educated labor) and thus operates more like Dallas or ATL - you can witness this in LA's incessant doubling-down on sprawl-spending, and, beyond purely reactive measures (to alternatize traffic via measures M, R) exerts minimal proactive effort to change "business as usual".

If you disagree, then try (at least in your own mind) to justify why Seattle is the anti-LA phenomenon that it is, despite being cut from the same suburban, car-dependent cloth

I see what you mean.
But,, Yes, they have an idea of what LA is.
Not to a tee, but they have a better idea than most cities.

[Bikemike]

Originally Posted by LA21st

How does Hollywood not have any consequence?
Its America's top export and entertains the frigging world. Its the reason why American culture matters.
Post covid, it shows how important it really is.

Also, FWIW, I tend to run into these "pro-LA" arguments constantly: I call it the "Chuck Norrisification" of LA/Hollywood:

That somehow, Hollywood produces some unquantifiable cultural currency whose power mysteriously supercedes its relatively miniscule global economic importance. This mysterious "juice" negates any attempt to quantify its real-world significance via objective metrics like revenue, average salary, % with college degree, and the like.

I don't buy these appeals to inflate LA's "importance" via "cultural exporting". Yes, there is something else to be said of "influence" but just that - something to be said. Most of Hollywood, like any non-knowledge-based industry, is low-income and low-education, and it's more tangible benefit to LA is to provide a lower unemployment rate for unskilled labor. Not much more. Hollywood does not make LA richer, and arguments have definitely been made either way as to whether it makes LA smarter (or dumber).

Apologize to overeact to yet ANOTHER loss of quality jobs from LA, but the ensuing commentary is really an expression of my frustration with LA's conservative culture after living there for over 40 yrs, and its lack of progress relative to "cutting-edge" cities of the world, with which LA SHOULD be playing but isn't.

[LA21st]

I don't think la is losing jobs from cbre.

Agree to disagree on Hollywood influences. Its more about the people and not the urban form though.

You see it every day in the city and it makes it unique. There is something awesome about the creativity that won't show up on paper.
I don't want la to be some boring office drone city.
I've been there and done that. Its not preferable in real life.
There's nothing unique about Dallas or Omaha or wherever because of that.

[Bikemike]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I don't think la is losing jobs from cbre.

Agree to disagree on Hollywood influences. Its more about the people and not the urban form though.
.

Why can't a city be creative AND progressive? Answer: because LA's creative class isn't very consequential (powerful economically), and it's relatively small.

It's about people AND urban form. Urban form comes FROM people who decide how to form it. In LA, there aren't creative solutions to urban form for a reason (the people).

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

There are some kernels of truth to what you are saying BikeMike, especially with our elected officials being woefully behind in embracing meaningful change to our built environment and making serious change.

However, we have a huge high end work force, but per capita, we dont compete with SF, which is so tech dominant, but no one does.

Our Ports, our higher learning institutions, tourism, entertainment, logistics, tech, manufacturing, etc are all top 3 or 4 in the nation so we have a very diverse economy.

However, we also have a very poor segment of a population which other cities outside of NYC dont have since we are such a huge port of entry.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I don't think la is losing jobs from cbre.

Agree to disagree on Hollywood influences. Its more about the people and not the urban form though.

You see it every day in the city and it makes it unique. There is something awesome about the creativity that won't show up on paper.
I don't want la to be some boring office drone city.
I've been there and done that. Its not preferable in real life.
There's nothing unique about Dallas or Omaha or wherever because of that.

Agreed 100%. There is something special about having hundreds of thousands of creatives from other parts of the country and world congregating and producing in LA. We are a top art city in the world and have massive influence.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Bikemike

Why can't a city be creative AND progressive? Answer: because LA's creative class isn't very consequential (powerful economically), and it's relatively small.

It's about people AND urban form. Urban form comes FROM people who decide how to form it. In LA, there aren't creative solutions to urban form for a reason (the people).

LA's creative class isnt consequential? LMAO thats just not right. At all.

CBRE is moving headquarters to Dallas because the top guy lives there already. No jobs are leaving LA. Yes, it sucks prestige wise, but its not a situation where 5000 people are moving.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Bikemike

Why can't a city be creative AND progressive? Answer: because LA's creative class isn't very consequential (powerful economically), and it's relatively small.

It's about people AND urban form. Urban form comes FROM people who decide how to form it. In LA, there aren't creative solutions to urban form for a reason (the people).

Is it small? Not in my experience. Even people who work in offices are doing something creative on the side.
I think its massive. And its not just Hollywood.
Its fashion, art, food, social media podcasts, video games etc.

La dominates podcasts and youtube, so every day people are listening to life about la. That's a bigger deal than you think it is.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

LA's creative class isnt consequential? LMAO thats just not right. At all.

CBRE is moving headquarters to Dallas because the top guy lives there already. No jobs are leaving LA. Yes, it sucks prestige wise, but its not a situation where 5000 people are moving.

Yea, I don't see the problem with it.
No layoffs here.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Agreed 100%. There is something special about having hundreds of thousands of creatives from other parts of the country and world congregating and producing in LA. We are a top art city in the world and have massive influence.

And thry like being around each other. Its like finance in NYC ortech in sf. We have the creative crowd.

[N90]

The problem with LA isn’t that CBRE is moving it’s HQ. Even though CBRE is the second largest F500 company in the LA area after Disney, it isn’t cutting or transferring its workforce. Which is the good news, especially in rough economic times like these.

The problem with LA and cities in all 50 US states is that they all have less jobs now than they did a year ago due to this cataclysmic recession produced by the coronavirus. If we can’t get a fast recovery underway soon then damages will be permanent to several industries.

LA’s challenge right now needs to be getting those 600k jobs that it’s down by back and then getting tens of thousands of new jobs and continue growing the labor market.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/metro.t03.htm

Hopefully today will bring some good news with the Dems taking control of the Senate and White House. Should that happen, we can prepare for a nice sized economic stimulus bill injection to speed up economic recovery across the US. Mitch McConnell and his 4 extra chins need to lose power.

[sopas ej]

I really don't understand these dick-measuring contests.

The LA Metro Area has the 2nd-largest GDP in the US, 2nd only to NYC. Who gives a flying turd if we have few Fortune Magazine rated companies? We still have a huge economy, pre-COVID, anyway.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I really don't understand these dick-measuring contests.

The LA Metro Area has the 2nd-largest GDP in the US, 2nd only to NYC. Who gives a flying turd if we have few Fortune Magazine rated companies? We still have a huge economy, pre-COVID, anyway.

Exactly right

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by ChelseaFC

LOL. A chart of the United States and global population would show the same thing. We're talking about skilled labor here.

Define "skilled labor."

I really don't like these outdated classist terms. Like "working class." If someone has to work for a living, aren't ALL workers, "working class"? These are terms made up by elitists to make themselves feel somehow superior to others, even though we all eat, shit, sleep, and have to wipe our own asses and go into work just like the next guy.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I really don't understand these dick-measuring contests.

The LA Metro Area has the 2nd-largest GDP in the US, 2nd only to NYC. Who gives a flying turd if we have few Fortune Magazine rated companies? We still have a huge economy, pre-COVID, anyway.

Yup. And most people don't know or even care about it.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Yup. And most people don't know or even care about it.

Right? It's like, twat-ever.

No me importa.