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  #2941  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 7:09 AM
bb1510 bb1510 is offline
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From last month's strata minutes

A. At Special General Meeting on March 23, 2016, the three proceedings titled in our resolutions as Litigation L1, L2 and L3
were authorized and ratified unanimously by the members of the Shangri-La Live/Work strata corporation. Resolutions are
appended to this Resolution L.4 as Addendum 1 and it is on the strength of these resolutions that Strata Council has
instructed legal counsel to pursue the claims;
B. Litigation L3 pertains to the claims against Masco Canada/Hansgrohe and GML for defective shower integral valve stops.
This litigation settled on January 9, 2020 with the payment of $725,000.00 from the Defendants to Shangri-La Live/Work;
C. Litigations L1 and L2 pertain to legal proceedings commenced by Shangri-La Live/Work [the “Legal Proceedings”] in 2011
[Notice of Civil Claim [found online via link outlined in covering notice to this SGM] against the Warranty Provider and in 2015
[found online via link outlined in covering notice to this SGM] against the Owner-Developer and a number of other
Defendants [the “Owner-Developer Group”] arising from a number of construction deficiencies pertaining to the Shangri-La
Tower, including but not limited to those concerning the Insulated Glass Units [“IGUs”];
D. These issues concerning the IGUs in particular, as pleaded in their respective Notices of Civil Claim, have been the subject of
extensive engineering investigation since 2012 and have culminated in preliminary engineering reports in 2013, 2014 and
2015 (not including reports commissioned by the Defendants), followed by a without prejudice presentation to the key
Defendants of the engineering findings in October of 2016. The engineering and legal investigations continue unabated to
present day and is anticipated to result in a further report before September-end 2020;
E. On February 14, 2018, Shangri-La Live/Work amended its Notice of Civil Claim [found online via link outlined in covering
notice to this SGM] in the L2 Action against the Warranty Provider to streamline its claim and to incorporate a number of
material facts which had become discovered in the interim both in the extensive engineering investigation and associated
investigations conducted by the team of Shangrila Live/Work;
F. A further amendment to the Notice of Civil Claim [“FANOCC”] in the L2 Action against the Owner-Developer Group was
distributed to all defendants and third parties on July 3, 2020 and has been the result of discovery of further material facts
in the document disclosure which began on August 22, 2019 and followed, as of January 28, 2020, on the heels of a transfer
of conduct of the Legal Proceedings to new legal counsel (see J. below). A copy of the FANOCC is available online for Owners
to download at the www.awmalliance.com website, under the Owner’s Login section -> “Resource Center” tab -> “Legal”
folder -> File name “3165 – Further Amended Notice of Civil Claim - IGU - 07-03-2020.pdf”;
G. In summary, the curtainwall system of Shangri-La Live/Work, being common property, is confronted with
a. the failure of up to 70% of the IGUs confirmed as at 2016 (and likely much more today and continuing to fail well into
the future) with failures occurring prematurely by decades and reaching just a fraction of their expected lifespan of
forty (40) years and ranging in character of deficiency from:
i. IGU’s tested by engineers and showing a proven propensity to fog although such fogging may not have yet
manifested itself;
ii. to IGU’s already manifesting fogging;
iii. to IGU’s manifesting not just fogging but also staining; and
iv. to IGU’s in some instances suffering from complete obscuring of the IGU cavity with biological growth;
and with no telling whether all or most IGUs are destined to eventually acquire the characteristics of the fourth
category; and
b. the real and unacceptable risk that the inner lites (i.e. the inner glass panes which make up the IGU) suffer from a nickel
sulfide inclusion and/or from other manufacturing defects which can cause these lites to spontaneously shatter. The
shattered inner lites have resulted in IGUs taken from strata lot units from the following floors:
21st Floor (2011 and 2013)
24th Floor (2013 and 2019)
27th Floor (2011 and 2013)
29th Floor (2011)
38th Floor (2011)
30th Floor (2013)
40th Floor (2019)
42nd Floor (2013)
43rd Floor (February and June 2013)
In addition, the outer lites have experienced thermal stress fractures which, if left unattended, imposes an obligation on
Shangrila Live/Work to consider and continuously monitor the degree of risks to safety, including the probability that
sections of the cracked glass on the IGU could propagate along a path of least resistance and eventually become separated
from the main assembly and fall to the areas surrounding the curtainwall, thus constituting a source of risk for danger to the
life and health of pedestrian traffic walking anywhere near the base of the building, the swimming pool area as reported by
OSP 3206 (the Estates), as well as to occupants of other units;
H. In the interest of ensuring safety, Shangri-La Live/Work has an obligation to continue steps to continue to investigate and
implement a reconstruction of the curtain wall and a replacement of all of the IGUs on an urgent basis and fund such work
in increments which are expected to reach an aggregate magnitude estimated at $65 million for the two strata’s (Live/Work
& Estates) (subject to actual costing from a tested and certified design). The choices facing the members are straightforward
– either:
a) pursue the early incremental steps in the remediation while at the same time pursuing civil remedies against those
entities who are responsible for this egregious construction failure and who ought to be held to account and pay for most
if not all of the remediation,
b) simply capitulate and accept that the entirety of the estimated cost of remediation will need to be absorbed by the
members of the two strata corporations, with Shangri-La Live/Work absorbing its respective share, or
c) disregard the risks to safety and absorb all associated costs as presented (not recommended).
Whichever option it chooses, Shangri-La Live/Work bears the risks that accompany delaying remedial action on the curtain
wall and the IGUs and the members must consider beginning to absorb at least the first funding increments of the
remediation, but it can choose to seek financial redress at the same time from other parties who are responsible and thus
mitigate, if not obviate, future funding demands associated with the remediation;
J. It is on the premise of points, such as those noted above, that it would be unthinkable to have all strata lot owners absorb
any significant part of the cost to remedy the egregious and actionable construction failures caused by the OwnerDeveloper/Builder group that Shangri-La Live/Work has led the prosecution of the Legal Proceedings against the OwnerDeveloper Group as follows: the engineering and legal facets of the IGU claim have been spearheaded by OSP BCS 3165 with
limited assistance from the strata corporation known as OSP BCS 3206 (also known as the Estates);
a. the progress of the Legal Proceedings has culminated in the replacement of Michael D. Tatchell (at his urging) and his
law firm of DuMoulin Boskovich LLP with Stuart Hankinson, QC and his law firm Bennett Jones LLP with a view to
prosecuting the Legal Proceedings through to mediation in March of 2021 and to trial in October of 2021 if necessary;
b. an overview of the Legal Proceedings and the investigations associated with the Legal Proceedings is found in the
Preamble submitted with this SGM package and members should refer to that document;
K. The Notice of Civil Claim and amendments up to and including FANOCC [the “Pleadings”] plead that Shangri-La Live/Work
claims on behalf of itself and representatively on behalf of the Individual Owners pursuant to section 171(1)(b) of the Strata
Property Act for matters relating to the common property, common assets and facilities of the Strata Corporation. It is also
contemplated within the Pleadings that Shangri-La Live/Work is suing and will continue to sue as representative of all owners
not only about the use or enjoyment of a strata lot under s. 171(1)(c) but, to the extent that the deficiencies or resultant
damages which are claimed within the Legal Proceedings may not be a common asset or within common property but rather
a matter affecting specific and likely each and every Strata Lot, Shangri-La Live/Work proceeds representatively on behalf
of the Strata Lot owners under s. 172(1) of the Strata Property Act on the following basis:
a. the Strata Corporation may sue on behalf of a Strata Lot Owner pursuant to s. 172(1)(a) of the Strata Property Act;
b. pursuant to s. 173.1 of the Strata Property Act, the Strata Lot Owners may make their authorization to the Strata
Corporation under s. 172(1)(a) as retroactive to the date of the filing of the Notice of Civil Claim and amendments or
the date on which a Strata Lot Owner acquired title to any Strata Lot;
c. owners will in due course be required to provide their written consent to participate and contribute to the incremental
cost of suing under s. 172(1)(a) – all members of the strata corporation already contributing to claims contained within
the Legal Proceedings and prosecuted under s. 171 of the Strata Property Act.
L. The Strata Council shall seek to create a legal committee of three (3) eligible members of the strata corporation to act as an
advisory to/for the strata council. Two (2) members of the strata council shall participate and chair the committee in addition
to the 3 members at large that will be appointed by the strata council pursuant to a selection process.
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  #2942  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 4:39 PM
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Wow. Thanks for that detail. So if the litigation doesn't work, the 227 owners in the two residential stratas face a bill of around $65m to reglaze their units. Presumably the glazing in the hotel part is similarly defective.

Putting aside the failure of units expected to have a 40 year life after less than a decade, it's amazing that reglazing flat panels of glazing could cost over a quarter of a million dollars for each unit (on average).

There appear to be 23 units for sale right now, about 10% of the building. The average per sq. ft. ranges from around $1,400 per square foot to over $2,500 for a 60th floor unit. The strata fees are just short of $1,000 per square foot.

So it's an expensive, allegedly defective building, with very high fees, facing a potentially massive bill if they don't win the their case. Maybe restricting the area of glazing a building can have, will turn out to be a benefit to owners that wasn't the point of the policy?
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Last edited by Changing City; Sep 26, 2020 at 10:23 PM. Reason: Corrected floor level
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  #2943  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 5:45 PM
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Would it be correct that the sealed units are of foreign origin? I've understood that to have been typical for a large percentage of projects in the past ten years or so.
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  #2944  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 8:21 PM
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this is crazy. i wonder what this is like for other buildings in the last 15yrs.
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  #2945  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 11:00 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
Wow. Thanks for that detail. So if the litigation doesn't work, the 227 owners in the two residential stratas face a bill of around $65m to reglaze their units. Presumably the glazing in the hotel part is similarly defective.

Putting aside the failure of units expected to have a 40 year life after less than a decade, it's amazing that reglazing flat panels of glazing could cost over a quarter of a million dollars for each unit (on average).

There appear to be 23 units for sale right now, about 10% of the building. The average per sq. ft. ranges from around $1,400 per square foot to over $2,500 for a 60th floor unit. The strata fees are just short of $1,000 per square foot.

So it's an expensive, allegedly defective building, with very high fees, facing a potentially massive bill if they don't win the their case. Maybe restricting the area of glazing a building can have, will turn out to be a benefit to owners that wasn't the point of the policy?
This being Vancouver, maybe they can just flip it to an offshore developer, tear it down and start again.

Sucks for the owners though.
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  #2946  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 11:22 PM
bb1510 bb1510 is offline
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I think the 65m figure is for the entire building so with 28 floors, the L/W strata portion would probably absorb 40-45 percent of the cost when it is shared with the hotel and estates.

At over 29m, that’s still a large sum; at around 9200 usable square footage per floor, the special levy for a 1500 square ft unit would be around $170,000

At One Wall, the average cost for a 1500 square foot unit was around $105,000


Also, the glazing concern must be really bad because for the Shangri La, the south facade already features higher performance glazing for better superior performance.

I recall one of the reasons why the suites heated up so much at One Wall was because when the developer switched to clear glass, the AHU and mechanical systems were not redesigned for the added solar gain into the units.


The special levy will hit the one bedrooms the worse as they’re typically 674 sq ft and will have an approximate bill of 76k, given market value is around 850-900k now, the levy will be basically 8-9% of the units’ market price.
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  #2947  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 5:07 PM
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Summary from bb1510's post for emphasis:

In summary, the curtainwall system of Shangri-La Live/Work, being common property, is confronted with

a. the failure of up to 70% of the Insulated Glass Units (IGUs) confirmed as at 2016 (and likely much more today and continuing to fail well into the future) with failures occurring prematurely by decades and reaching just a fraction of their expected lifespan of forty (40) years and ranging in character of deficiency from:

i. IGU’s tested by engineers and showing a proven propensity to fog although such fogging may not have yet manifested itself;
ii. to IGU’s already manifesting fogging;
iii. to IGU’s manifesting not just fogging but also staining; and
iv. to IGU’s in some instances suffering from complete obscuring of the IGU cavity with biological growth; and with no telling whether all or most IGUs are destined to eventually acquire the characteristics of the fourth category; and

b. the real and unacceptable risk that the inner lites (i.e. the inner glass panes which make up the IGU) suffer from a nickel sulfide inclusion and/or from other manufacturing defects which can cause these lites to spontaneously shatter.

The outer lites have experienced thermal stress fractures which, if left unattended, imposes an obligation on Shangrila Live/Work to consider and continuously monitor the degree of risks to safety, including the probability that sections of the cracked glass on the IGU could propagate along a path of least resistance and eventually become separated from the main assembly and fall to the areas surrounding the curtainwall, thus constituting a source of risk for danger to the life and health of pedestrian traffic walking anywhere near the base of the building.
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  #2948  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 1:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
this is crazy. i wonder what this is like for other buildings in the last 15yrs.
Leaky Condo v2.0.

Ron.
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  #2949  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewfBC View Post
Leaky Condo v2.0.

Ron.
Leaky Condo 2: Electric Boogaloo.
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  #2950  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewfBC View Post
Leaky Condo v2.0.

Ron.
Guaranteed.

None of these curtain walls will make it anywhere near their designed lifespan.

This one will make Leaky Condo 1.0 look like minor leagues.
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  #2951  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 9:23 PM
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I wonder how the curtain wall system at Trump will fare.

I know for a fact the system is from a Chinese company called Jangho.


At least on the Shangri La, higher performance glazing was used on the SW facade since it has the highest solar gain. Higher performance IGUs and seals were used. Also, bedroom windows all around the building had laminated IGUs for better noise transmittance.


IGUs are the same all around in Trump and AHUs are severely underpowered (like in One Wall)
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  #2952  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 9:29 PM
rofina rofina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb1510 View Post
I wonder how the curtain wall system at Trump will fare.

I know for a fact the system is from a Chinese company called Jangho.


At least on the Shangri La, higher performance glazing was used on the SW facade since it has the highest solar gain. Higher performance IGUs and seals were used. Also, bedroom windows all around the building had laminated IGUs for better noise transmittance.


IGUs are the same all around in Trump and AHUs are severely underpowered (like in One Wall)
Its also much darker glazing, I imagine the solar gain is pretty harsh for Trump.
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  #2953  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 7:00 PM
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From today's Sun:

Shangri-La tower glass windows could 'spontaneously' shatter, warns strata
The strata includes 234 condo units at Shangri-La Live/Work, which covers floors 16 to 42, sandwiched between a hotel below, and more luxury, residential units above.
Author of the article:Joanne Lee-Young
Publishing date:Oct 01, 2020

Strata owners have, for some years, drawn attention to allegedly faulty glass windows in residential condo units at the 62-storey Shangri-La tower in downtown Vancouver.

There have been complaints, some filed in civil claims, about alleged fogging caused by moisture trapped in between the panes that make up what are known as insulated glass units (IGU), or windows.

But there are now more serious concerns.

According to recent strata minutes, the inner panes of the IGUs apparently “suffer from a nickel sulphide inclusion and/or manufacturing defects, which can cause (them) to spontaneously shatter.”

Minutes described the possibility of windows cracking as a “real and unacceptable risk.”...


https://vancouversun.com/business/commer...could-spontaneously-shatter-warns-strata
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  #2954  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 7:05 PM
rofina rofina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
From today's Sun:

Shangri-La tower glass windows could 'spontaneously' shatter, warns strata
The strata includes 234 condo units at Shangri-La Live/Work, which covers floors 16 to 42, sandwiched between a hotel below, and more luxury, residential units above.
Author of the article:Joanne Lee-Young
Publishing date:Oct 01, 2020

Strata owners have, for some years, drawn attention to allegedly faulty glass windows in residential condo units at the 62-storey Shangri-La tower in downtown Vancouver.

There have been complaints, some filed in civil claims, about alleged fogging caused by moisture trapped in between the panes that make up what are known as insulated glass units (IGU), or windows.

But there are now more serious concerns.

According to recent strata minutes, the inner panes of the IGUs apparently “suffer from a nickel sulphide inclusion and/or manufacturing defects, which can cause (them) to spontaneously shatter.”

Minutes described the possibility of windows cracking as a “real and unacceptable risk.”...


https://vancouversun.com/business/commer...could-spontaneously-shatter-warns-strata
I don't understand how one insures against this for the next 2-3 years as this works to get resolved, and another 2-3 as its worked to get fixed.

This will be an issue for most of 2020's before you see a reglazing.

Who insures against the risk?
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  #2955  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 8:23 PM
bb1510 bb1510 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
From today's Sun:

Shangri-La tower glass windows could 'spontaneously' shatter, warns strata
The strata includes 234 condo units at Shangri-La Live/Work, which covers floors 16 to 42, sandwiched between a hotel below, and more luxury, residential units above.
Author of the article:Joanne Lee-Young
Publishing date:Oct 01, 2020

Strata owners have, for some years, drawn attention to allegedly faulty glass windows in residential condo units at the 62-storey Shangri-La tower in downtown Vancouver.

There have been complaints, some filed in civil claims, about alleged fogging caused by moisture trapped in between the panes that make up what are known as insulated glass units (IGU), or windows.

But there are now more serious concerns.

According to recent strata minutes, the inner panes of the IGUs apparently “suffer from a nickel sulphide inclusion and/or manufacturing defects, which can cause (them) to spontaneously shatter.”

Minutes described the possibility of windows cracking as a “real and unacceptable risk.”...


https://vancouversun.com/business/commer...could-spontaneously-shatter-warns-strata
More stories to come regarding this; there'll be a series of these articles from VS
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  #2956  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rofina View Post
I don't understand how one insures against this for the next 2-3 years as this works to get resolved, and another 2-3 as its worked to get fixed.

This will be an issue for most of 2020's before you see a reglazing.

Who insures against the risk?
Could you coat the glass with a clear film/wrap to contain shards if it does shatter?
Maybe that might satisfy an insurer.
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  #2957  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 12:20 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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I think they'll have to put up scaffolding to protect pedestrians especially if they know about the possibility of windows shattering.
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  #2958  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 1:49 AM
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It'll be a little like Manhattan where numerous older buildings have seemingly permanent scaffolding all around the base to protect pedestrians from falling bricks or masonry. It'll add a little character.
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  #2959  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 10:41 PM
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Do you think this Craigslist ad is for real or just somebody trolling Shangri-la? Would you bite?

$1 / 1br - 677ft2 - Shangri-La Vancouver - Assume The Mortgages And Take Over Unit FREE (Downtown Vancouver)

Assume the debt and own and takeover a unit in the Shangri-La for no money down!

I own a 1 bedroom unit at the Shangri-La that has a couple of mortgages on it.
There is essentially no equity left - given that the market has now fallen.

However, if someone wants to simply assume the debts I am happy to give the unit away.

The unit is on a high floor and facing north with partial water views...

A few details about the unit (1111 Alberni Street):

*1 bedroom / 1 bathroom
*1 parking stall
*677 square feet
*I am the original owner of the property

Luxurious air conditioned 1 Bdrm/1 Bath home at LIVING SHANGRI-LA! Enter the spacious livrm/dining w/ electric f/p, floor to ceiling windows, laminate floors & corridor views of the NS Mtns. Chef's will love the well appointed kitchen with granite countertops, Miele stainless steel stove, Sub-Zero fridge & top of the line faucet. Relax in the spa-like bath w/ soaker tub & shower & separated powder room. Enjoy 5 star living with amenities & conveniences such as 24 hr concierge, top-of-the-line fitness centre, infinity outdoor pool & hot tub. Unbeatable location w/ lounge/restaurant, high-end shopping, Urban Fare, Chi spa, meeting & library, all within your building or just out the door! This would be great investment to add to your portfolio ormake this your home! 1 parking stall included.

Please get in touch if this is of interest.

Serious enquiries only please...no brokers, no agents, no time wasters!


https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/reo/d/vancouver-shangri-la-vancouver-assume/7217982430.html
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  #2960  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 12:07 AM
bb1510 bb1510 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Do you think this Craigslist ad is for real or just somebody trolling Shangri-la? Would you bite?

$1 / 1br - 677ft2 - Shangri-La Vancouver - Assume The Mortgages And Take Over Unit FREE (Downtown Vancouver)

Assume the debt and own and takeover a unit in the Shangri-La for no money down!

I own a 1 bedroom unit at the Shangri-La that has a couple of mortgages on it.
There is essentially no equity left - given that the market has now fallen.

However, if someone wants to simply assume the debts I am happy to give the unit away.

The unit is on a high floor and facing north with partial water views...

A few details about the unit (1111 Alberni Street):

*1 bedroom / 1 bathroom
*1 parking stall
*677 square feet
*I am the original owner of the property

Luxurious air conditioned 1 Bdrm/1 Bath home at LIVING SHANGRI-LA! Enter the spacious livrm/dining w/ electric f/p, floor to ceiling windows, laminate floors & corridor views of the NS Mtns. Chef's will love the well appointed kitchen with granite countertops, Miele stainless steel stove, Sub-Zero fridge & top of the line faucet. Relax in the spa-like bath w/ soaker tub & shower & separated powder room. Enjoy 5 star living with amenities & conveniences such as 24 hr concierge, top-of-the-line fitness centre, infinity outdoor pool & hot tub. Unbeatable location w/ lounge/restaurant, high-end shopping, Urban Fare, Chi spa, meeting & library, all within your building or just out the door! This would be great investment to add to your portfolio ormake this your home! 1 parking stall included.

Please get in touch if this is of interest.

Serious enquiries only please...no brokers, no agents, no time wasters!


https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/reo/d/vancouver-shangri-la-vancouver-assume/7217982430.html
I know the seller and it's not a scam. He was previously trying to find a 50/50 JV to take over half of the equity for 500k

He's a private equity* guy based in the UK and here and is really, really over leveraged on this property. Has units at the Shaw tower and Fairmont as well but not interested in selling those at the time

There are 4 mortgages registered on the property:

425k with TD at 2.4%
400k private mortgage at 14% - default since aug 2019, there's a pending litigation on this
25k private mortgage at 15%
80k private mortgage at 18.5%

monthly payments are 7792.36 plus strata fees; the private mortgages are all interest only payments

there's also a crown lien on the property

Last edited by bb1510; Oct 31, 2020 at 1:07 AM. Reason: originally wrote hedge fund, not private equity and did not do a title search and mortgage search
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