Kanata LRT EA - Bayshore to Palladium

[waterloowarrior]

After Terry Fox the train goes to Didsbury Station, a trench located between the back of Dymon Storage and an MTO Patrol Yard. It then climbs up an elevated guideway far above the strip malls to Campeau Station, crossing the 417 to an elevated station with an expansive view of the Palladium Auto Park and the CTC Parking lot. The train descends back to earth but then goes up toward Maple Grove Station, above the Maple Grove Snow Depot. The line goes back to ground level past Poole Creek but terminates 20 feet above the transit-oriented stormwater block at Hazeldean Station. $1.2 billion well-spent

[SkeggsEggs]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

After Terry Fox the train goes to Didsbury Station, a trench located between the back of Dymon Storage and an MTO Patrol Yard. It then climbs up an elevated guideway far above the strip malls to Campeau Station, crossing the 417 to an elevated station with an expansive view of the Palladium Auto Park and the CTC Parking lot. The train descends back to earth but then goes up toward Maple Grove Station, above the Maple Grove Snow Depot. The line goes back to ground level past Poole Creek but terminates 20 feet above the transit-oriented stormwater block at Hazeldean Station. $1.2 billion well-spent

Every snow depot in the city should be serviced by a world-class train!

[roger1818]

Falls under the realm of political promise, so I would take it with a grain of salt, but still interesting.

Conservative Party pledges support to extend Ottawa's Light Rail Transit to Kanata
Josh Pringle, CTVNewsOttawa.ca Digital Multi-Skilled Journalist
@PringleJosh | Contact

Published Wednesday, September 1, 2021 3:04PM EDT
Last Updated Wednesday, September 1, 2021 3:04PM EDT

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OTTAWA -- Conservative Party leader Erin O'Toole is making a campaign pledge to Ottawa commuters, promising to extend light rail into Kanata and improve Highway 174 in Ottawa's east end.

O'Toole announced on Wednesday that a Conservative government will "immediately prioritize" the construction of LRT from Moodie Drive to Hazeldean Road, adding eight new stations.

"Canada’s Conservatives will end the delays and get shovels in the ground on long-awaited Ottawa infrastructure projects like the Kanata LRT and VIA’s high frequency rail service with Canada’s Recovery Plan," O'Toole said in a news release. "Whether it’s getting to work or going to a Sens game, these projects will help Ottawans get to where they need to go faster and more conveniently."

O'Toole says a Conservative government will also maintain federal funding for Stage 2 of the LRT project, expanding the Confederation Line to Moodie Drive and Algonquin College in the west end and Trim Road in the east end. The O-Train Trillium Line is also being extended into Riverside South.

The Conservatives are also pledging to repair and improve Highway 174 between Orleans and Rockland to help reduce congestion and enhance road safety.

[Snip parts about HFR]

"A Conservative government will deliver on transit for fast-growing communities like Kanata," said O’Toole. "Through Canada’s Recovery Plan, the Kanata LRT project and the VIA Rail high frequency rail project will create thousands of jobs and fuel a strong recovery for the Ottawa area."

The riding of Kanata-Carleton is becoming a major battleground for both the Liberals and the Conservatives during the third week of the campaign.

On Tuesday, Liberal leader Justin Trudeau made a campaign stop in Kanata, announcing $4.5 billion over five years for mental health services across the country.

Liberal MP Karen McCrimmon is not seeking re-election in Kanata-Carleton this election. Ottawa councillor Jenna Sudds is the Liberal candidate in Kanata-Carleton. The Conservative Party candidate is Jennifer McAndrew.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/conservative-p...s-light-rail-transit-to-kanata-1.5569817

[lrt's friend]

Is this political to promise to extend LRT to Kanata as opposed to both Kanata and Barrhaven?

Screw the south end as usual.

What was originally to be first, is now last and likely a very distant last

[lrt's friend]

It is very good news that the Conservatives are going to support HFR, however

[Hybrid247]

I would hope Watson and council would lobby the CPC, if they were to win, to fund extensions to Terry Fox and Fallowfield instead of just Kanata.

That HFR support is indeed fantastic news. Hadn't heard anything from the CPC regarding that until now so it's nice to know a CPC win wouldn't put the project in jeopardy.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is very good news that the Conservatives are going to support HFR, however

They'd be crazy not to. Kanata and Carleton are the only areas that reliably vote CPC.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by JHikka

They'd be crazy not to. Kanata and Carleton are the only areas that reliably vote CPC.

The 2 time incumbent for Kanata-Carleton (Liberal MP Karen McCrimmon) isn't seeking re-election, so it is expected to be a close race, though I think Liberal candidate, Jenna Sudds has better name recognition than CPC candidate, Jennifer McAndrew, but anything could happen. Nepean will almost certainly go Liberal, so O'Toole won't be focussing on it as much in his campaign.

Given that the latest plan is to have it extend to Stittsville (sort of), I am surprised O'Toole didn't through Poilievre a bone by mentioning it, but they probably didn't want to dilute the focus on Kanata.

[Stacmon]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Falls under the realm of political promise, so I would take it with a grain of salt, but still interesting.


https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/conservative-p...s-light-rail-transit-to-kanata-1.5569817

One of the best aspects of this announcement is that it will put pressure on the other major parties to confirm support for a Kanata extension / Stage 3 (including Barrhaven) in general. Not just that, but since the Conservatives were the "least likely" to support it (due perhaps to less concern about the environmental benefits, reluctance over cost, worry about remote work/a decline in ridership projections, etc.), it makes the likelihood of securing the funding early and starting Stage 3 construction right after Stage 2, much more likely!

[Nowhere]

Maybe because building the Barrhaven LRT before stage 2 is complete would be extremely disruptive. The whole transitway between Barrhaven Center and Tunney's would be closed at the same time, while the Kanata LRT isn't replacing existing infrastructure.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Given that the latest plan is to have it extend to Stittsville (sort of), I am surprised O'Toole didn't through Poilievre a bone by mentioning it, but they probably didn't want to dilute the focus on Kanata.

Skippy Poilievre doesn't need a bone. He'll be re-elected for the umpteenth time no matter what.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Maybe because building the Barrhaven LRT before stage 2 is complete would be extremely disruptive. The whole transitway between Barrhaven Center and Tunney's would be closed at the same time, while the Kanata LRT isn't replacing existing infrastructure.

I don't think the CPC, or any Political Party, can think that logically. It's purely about determining which riding(s) could be flipped.

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't think the CPC, or any Political Party, can think that logically. It's purely about determining which riding(s) could be flipped.

The weird thing is that Barrhaven also has a decent chance of voting conservative, so I wonder why they didn't propose Terry Fox and Fallowfield instead.

I think we should wait a few years before deciding to build a LRT all the way to Stittsville. Spending more than $1B on an elevated light metro between Terry Fox and Stittsville was already questionable pre-covid, but now it's even more questionable as it's getting obvious that the traditional 8-5 office jobs will be increasingly done remotely or simply automated. A small sprawling suburb, an occasionally used stadium and a snow dump are going to generate very little ridership and the Kanata West Secondary Plan made in 2017 doesn't plan anything over 15 storeys for the area.

If we built the Terry Fox to Stittsville portion as BRT, we could use the hundreds of millions saved to build the Baseline Transitway.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Skippy Poilievre doesn't need a bone. He'll be re-elected for the umpteenth time no matter what.

I agree he doesn't need one. I was just surprised he didn't get it anyway.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

The weird thing is that Barrhaven also has a decent chance of voting conservative, so I wonder why they didn't propose Terry Fox and Fallowfield instead.

What makes you think that the riding of Nepean could go Conservative? With the current boundaries, it has always been a strong Liberal riding. When Barrhaven was included in the Nepean—Carleton riding, it was more of a right wing riding, but that is because it had fewer urban voters and more rural voters.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

I think we should wait a few years before deciding to build a LRT all the way to Stittsville. Spending more than $1B on an elevated light metro between Terry Fox and Stittsville was already questionable pre-covid, but now it's even more questionable as it's getting obvious that the traditional 8-5 office jobs will be increasingly done remotely or simply automated.

Oh, I agree 100%. I just thought O'Toole would want to give a gift to Poilievre.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

A small sprawling suburb, an occasionally used stadium and a snow dump are going to generate very little ridership and the Kanata West Secondary Plan made in 2017 doesn't plan anything over 15 storeys for the area.

While I agree with your conclusion, I don't agree with your argument. I wouldn't consider 15 story buildings low density, and with an estimated mid 2020 population of 43,335 and growing rapidly, I wouldn't really consider Stittsville a "small" suburb. It is sprawling, but it is getting significantly more density than it was a decade ago.

I do agree that there are significantly diminished returns building past Terry Fox and while people see significant traffic after events at the CTC, that traffic is because everyone is leaving at the same time, but the number of people actually leaving an event is relatively small, compared to the number of people commuting downtown on a typical work day. There are also probably only between 100 and 150 events a year that generate these traffic surges, compared to about 250 work days in a year.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

If we built the Terry Fox to Stittsville portion as BRT, we could use the hundreds of millions saved to build the Baseline Transitway.

I do tend to agree, especially if the busway was build primarily at grade.

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by roger1818

What makes you think that the riding of Nepean could go Conservative? With the current boundaries, it has always been a strong Liberal riding. When Barrhaven was included in the Nepean—Carleton riding, it was more of a right wing riding, but that is because it had fewer urban voters and more rural voters.

The most recent poll puts the Liberals at 39.5% and the Conservatives at 35.9% for Nepean, so yeah, the Conservatives would have a good chance of winning this riding with a LRT promise.

This this map for the latest polls by riding.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

The most recent poll puts the Liberals at 39.5% and the Conservatives at 35.9% for Nepean, so yeah, the Conservatives would have a good chance of winning this riding with a LRT promise.

This this map for the latest polls by riding.

According to the link you shared, they evaluated the riding of Nepean as "LPC Leaning," where as Kanata–Carleton is evaluated to be a "Toss up LPC/CPC," thus much closer a race.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

The most recent poll puts the Liberals at 39.5% and the Conservatives at 35.9% for Nepean, so yeah, the Conservatives would have a good chance of winning this riding with a LRT promise.

This this map for the latest polls by riding.

This isn't a poll. It's an aggregation of recent regional and national polls mapped out with past electoral results. Not the same thing.

[AuxTown]

I like Jenna Sudds and think she has a very strong change to take this riding. I see her as a liberal candidate with longstanding business ties and mindset (something sorely lacking in the Liberals in general).

Let's hope she announces something even better! Trains to every neighbourhood!

But, honestly, if stage 2 stays relatively on-time and doens't have any huge complications I always imagined Kanata and Barhaven extensions would happen in short order....regardless of the current election.

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by JHikka

This isn't a poll. It's an aggregation of recent regional and national polls mapped out with past electoral results. Not the same thing.

I didn't realize that, I see what you mean.

Still, both ridings might go either way, so I wonder if the Conservatives are going to promise a Barrhaven LRT as well.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It seems that the downtown capacity that we have built will never be needed especially after listening to the news today about the wishes of public servants to never return to downtown offices, at least not daily.

If anything, our city's transportation needs are going to be more diffused than ever, something that the rigidity (and the enormous cost) of LRT cannot address effectively.

I am not against LRT but I can see Sauvanto's point. We have foregone many other transit improvements to pay for the downtown focused Confederation Line. The city cannot possibly pay for the other transit improvements that will truly speed up transit trips, such as the Baseline BRT and many others.

So, we have paid for a system to take people to offices that have mostly emptied out. Now, it appears that those buildings will need to be repurposed, and this will take many years to accomplish. Even then, the need to travel to downtown will decline but the need to move between suburbs will continue to increase.

The Confederation Line, Stage 1 and 2, are/were essential to deal with capacity issues along the Transitway however, I agree that we need to re-focus our priorities in the face of a new reality. From here forward, we should build the system for those who use transit as a way to get around on a day to day basis, not just at rush-hour. The Baseline BRT-lite, Carling transit priority (or even a level-up to BRT-lite or rail) and better service for high-density, mixed-income, urban axies like Rideau, Montreal and Bank would do that.

The City however, prefers sticking its head in the sand and double down on commuter focused Stage 3 over anything else, possibly even ready to sabotage its neighbour Gatineau for funding.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Confederation Line, Stage 1 and 2, are/were essential to deal with capacity issues along the Transitway however, I agree that we need to re-focus our priorities in the face of a new reality. From here forward, we should build the system for those who use transit as a way to get around on a day to day basis, not just at rush-hour. The Baseline BRT-lite, Carling transit priority (or even a level-up to BRT-lite or rail) and better service for high-density, mixed-income, urban axies like Rideau, Montreal and Bank would do that.

The City however, prefers sticking its head in the sand and double down on commuter focused Stage 3 over anything else, possibly even ready to sabotage its neighbour Gatineau for funding.

While I tend to agree, the extension to Kanata will make it easier for those in Kanata/Stittsville to commute to the Kanata North business park. Up until the closure of Moodie station, the best way for me to do that by transit would be to take the bus through the greenbelt to Moodie and then turn around and go back through the greenbelt to Kanata. Now the transfer needs to be done at Bayshore again (and Google at least sometimes suggests Pinecrest).

Granted we could build a transfer facility at Eagleson that spans the 417 without extending the O-Train, but I suspect that would cost almost as much as the extension.