Winnipeg Retail

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

It's a guaranteed revenue stream, more or less (grocery stores would be a good thing to own right about now) I would also think that the margin figure is for grocery items - stores would also have other revenue streams (non-food items they sell, renting space to pharmacists, etc.). That said, it's an incredibly competitive industry and margins are definitely cut to the bone.

Certainly. There has to be some money in it... otherwise, why would anyone bother? I suppose with The Bay supermarket, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it made enough money to keep chugging along when HBC ran it, especially as a package deal with Zellers which it was in its final years. But once you removed those advantages that The Bay enjoyed, suddenly it wasn't quite as appealing. I'm not surprised that no one wanted to run a supermarket in a half-empty basement after Zellers closed.

[cllew]

last figures from Industry Canada are 2017 and show that the profit margin for the grocery store segment is 0.8% for chain stores and 2.3% for independents for an industry average of 1.5%.

So an independent operator for a downtown location would theoretically be more profitable than a chain operator in the same locaton.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by cllew

last figures from Industry Canada are 2017 and show that the profit margin for the grocery store segment is 0.8% for chain stores and 2.3% for independents for an industry average of 1.5%.

So an independent operator for a downtown location would theoretically be more profitable than a chain operator in the same locaton.

Those numbers are for stores that are operating. Doesn't include shuttered stores that couldn't turn a profit. Operating downtown, whether independent or chain, costs a lot more than in the burbs or even out of the core. That operating would have to get passed on to consumers.

If I lived Downtown with no car and shopping at independent Joe cost me 5-10% more on most items, I would find a way to bus out to a chain store to do the bulk of my shopping and only pick up the odd item at the independent store. I already go out of my way to shop at Superstore due to the price discrepancy with them and Sobeys/Safeway.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Those numbers are for stores that are operating. Doesn't include shuttered stores that couldn't turn a profit. Operating downtown, whether independent or chain, costs a lot more than in the burbs or even out of the core. That operating would have to get passed on to consumers.

If I lived Downtown with no car and shopping at independent Joe cost me 5-10% more on most items, I would find a way to bus out to a chain store to do the bulk of my shopping and only pick up the odd item at the independent store. I already go out of my way to shop at Superstore due to the price discrepancy with them and Sobeys/Safeway.

I would guess most people would be the opposite, or at most 50/50. If I lived downtown and there was one store close to me, I'd do most of my shopping there even if it was 5–10% more for the sheer convenience. My time is more valuable than the extra $5–10 on my bill, not including the $6 in bus fare it takes to get to the other store. My friends in Vancouver said the downtown grocery stores are noticeably more than others, but why are they going to travel across the city to save $5? Makes no sense.

Personally I find the products and the price at Superstore/No Frills the best, so I do most of my shopping at No Frills and go to or get delivery from Superstore once a month to get the non-perishables I like (PC demolishes Compliments) even though Safeway is a 5 minute walk. My specialty things I get at a specialty store or market regardless

[esquire]

When I lived downtown I was in the habit of doing smaller milk runs on foot to nearby supermarkets like the Osborne Village Safeway or Family Foods. I was not that far from The Bay but it was kind of out of sight, out of mind. But bigger shops every couple of weeks or so were usually by car to Superstore or the then-Extra Foods. I wouldn't be surprised if most downtown residents with cars tend to go a little further afield for groceries.

Family Foods and Safeway are OK, but it would start to get a little pricy if they were the only stores you relied on... and the selection is not comprehensive, especially at Family Foods.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by WildCake

If I lived Downtown with no car and shopping at independent Joe cost me 5-10% more on most items, I would find a way to bus out to a chain store to do the bulk of my shopping and only pick up the odd item at the independent store. I already go out of my way to shop at Superstore due to the price discrepancy with them and Sobeys/Safeway.

^^ This is exactly why a downtown grocery store is not viable. Soon as prices edge up a little people start looking for alternatives. Unless one of the bigger players is willing to backstop an operation downtown the cost of goods to the retailer gets too high to compete.

[3de14eec6a]

Originally Posted by esquire

Family Foods and Safeway are OK, but it would start to get a little pricy if they were the only stores you relied on... and the selection is not comprehensive, especially at Family Foods.

I do 99% of my shopping at the downtown family foods these days. I'll walk to no frills or safeway when I just can't find something at FF.
My monthly grocery bill went up maybe $20 from larger supermarkets. Totally inconsequential as a trade-off for time/bus fare to me.

[laumag]

Originally Posted by CoryB

^^ This is exactly why a downtown grocery store is not viable. Soon as prices edge up a little people start looking for alternatives. Unless one of the bigger players is willing to backstop an operation downtown the cost of goods to the retailer gets too high to compete.

Perhaps with the announcement of the soon to open Amazon Distribution Centre in Winnipeg, the company might open a Whole Foods?

[AccordTR]

Originally Posted by laumag

Perhaps with the announcement of the soon to open Amazon Distribution Centre in Winnipeg, the company might open a Whole Foods?

They own a parcel of land in South Pointe that is ear marked for Whole Foods if they decide to come here.

[plrh]

That seems like an odd location. I would have thought Seasons would be closer to their target. Going after the costco crowd?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by laumag

Perhaps with the announcement of the soon to open Amazon Distribution Centre in Winnipeg, the company might open a Whole Foods?

Again, what Winnipeg is getting is not a "Distribution Centre". Distribution Centre's or Fulfillment Centre's are approximately 800,000 to 1,000,000 sq ft in size and warehouse millions of products for quick delivery.

What we are getting are "Delivery Stations". They are in the 100,000 to 200,000 sq ft range and are just sorting centre's that take deliveries from large semi-trailers and break them down to smaller delivery trucks. There are no stored products.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by laumag

Perhaps with the announcement of the soon to open Amazon Distribution Centre in Winnipeg, the company might open a Whole Foods?

Originally Posted by plrh

That seems like an odd location. I would have thought Seasons would be closer to their target. Going after the costco crowd?

It seems doubtful that Amazon would bring Whole Foods to town if they an do fulfilment through their online channels. In terms of location, Seasons likely went after the ready to build proposals which is why the Coop food store is currently under construction on their site with a plan to open in 2021. Southpointe isn't too far off the mark for Whole Foods though as they are going after the more affluent market that isn't a bad choice. Yes something closer to Tuxedo would have been ideal but with Seasons off the table what large parcel of land is available?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It seems doubtful that Amazon would bring Whole Foods to town if they an do fulfilment through their online channels. In terms of location, Seasons likely went after the ready to build proposals which is why the Coop food store is currently under construction on their site with a plan to open in 2021. Southpointe isn't too far off the mark for Whole Foods though as they are going after the more affluent market that isn't a bad choice. Yes something closer to Tuxedo would have been ideal but with Seasons off the table what large parcel of land is available?

Big development coming up at Grant and Kenaston...

[Jeff]

Staples signs were taken off Portage Place and it appears the store is already emptied out and closed. With no students at U of W, only 25% of workers back in their offices according to the Downtown BIZ and the Bay closing, it's gonna be a long, cold and stark winter for that section of Portage Avenue.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Big development coming up at Grant and Kenaston...

Not sure how successful the urban reserve will be at attracting retail tenants. Those folks are going to be well aware of issues with those sort of developments elsewhere (ie leases being terminated with near zero notice) and be somewhat reluctant to locate there.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Staples signs were taken off Portage Place and it appears the store is already emptied out and closed. With no students at U of W, only 25% of workers back in their offices according to the Downtown BIZ and the Bay closing, it's gonna be a long, cold and stark winter for that section of Portage Avenue.

I saw that when I was downtown on Saturday... they did not waste a second in shutting 'er down.

With Staples gone and Hudson Bay next (I'm actually kind of surprised they're going to drag it out until February given that the period after the holidays is a bit of a retail dead zone), there will be little downtown retail left. I noticed that City Jewelers is closing down at Portage Place... Coles closed down not too long ago. I'm sure there must be other closures impending.

[michelleb]

Do you think we'll see a migration of retailers from Portage Place into CityPlace once the former disappears? Sure feels like downtown can only support one mall, and splitting between two is hurting both.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by esquire

With Staples gone and Hudson Bay next (I'm actually kind of surprised they're going to drag it out until February given that the period after the holidays is a bit of a retail dead zone), there will be little downtown retail left. I noticed that City Jewelers is closing down at Portage Place... Coles closed down not too long ago. I'm sure there must be other closures impending.

I guess only Staples knows what their plans are, but it seems a natural to have an office supply store somewhere in the downtown core. Plus, classes at the U of W are not going to be empty forever.

On the other hand, perhaps having fewer retail outlets in Portage Place would make any re-building of the mall that much easier. I have not heard if the federal $$ they claim to have needed was forthcoming, so this may just be wishful thinking on my part.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by michelleb

Do you think we'll see a migration of retailers from Portage Place into CityPlace once the former disappears? Sure feels like downtown can only support one mall, and splitting between two is hurting both.

It feels like Cityplace has given up on retail... so much retail space has been converted to office use. It has become a bit of a glorified food court now.

But that said, the little downtown retail there is spread way too thinly between the three malls (not even going to count Fort Garry Place in that total) and streetfront locations. I guess if Portage Place gets out of the retail game which Starlight has suggested will happen, then that does present an opportunity for the other two malls...

Originally Posted by pspeid

I guess only Staples knows what their plans are, but it seems a natural to have an office supply store somewhere in the downtown core. Plus, classes at the U of W are not going to be empty forever.

Before Staples opened up downtown there were a couple of smaller office supply shops downtown, Grand & Toy at Winnipeg Square and possibly a couple of others (Willson?). But I'm not sure that there are any left now that Staples is gone.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by esquire

It feels like Cityplace has given up on retail... so much retail space has been converted to office use. It has become a bit of a glorified food court now.

But that said, the little downtown retail there is spread way too thinly between the three malls (not even going to count Fort Garry Place in that total) and streetfront locations. I guess if Portage Place gets out of the retail game which Starlight has suggested will happen, then that does present an opportunity for the other two malls...



Before Staples opened up downtown there were a couple of smaller office supply shops downtown, Grand & Toy at Winnipeg Square and possibly a couple of others (Willson?). But I'm not sure that there are any left now that Staples is gone.

Grand and Toy closed down their retail stores in Canada in 2014 (still do catalogue/online business orders) and I am sure that Wilson's closed their stores before that.

I'm going way back in time but I think their downtown store was up on the 2nd level of Portage Place in the former Holt Renfrew building. I sort of recall buying some screen saver software from them in that location and it was not that big of a store.