HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #14801  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 3:29 AM
Gat-Train Gat-Train is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I believe that, within official terminology, light-metro would best describe the Confederation Line.

The Trillium Line is a beast of its own, quite different from anything else in the world, so I don't know what terminology would best describe it.
S-Bahn.
     
     
  #14802  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 4:24 AM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
S-Bahn.
This is not Germany or anywhere that speaks the languages that are close to German.
     
     
  #14803  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 6:42 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18,930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
S-Bahn.
It isn’t really anything like an s-bahn, it has a very low capacity, doesn’t go very far and has fairly infrequent service.
     
     
  #14804  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 9:42 AM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SSP Graveyard
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
So, it should be referred to as an light metro then?
While it is likely the most accurate, I cannot see light metro as a name that will catch on as what most people will use.
     
     
  #14805  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 12:24 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 26,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannwagon View Post
Its actual name, the O-Train
I've shortened that to "the O". People seem to know what I mean.
     
     
  #14806  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 3:34 PM
Brannwagon Brannwagon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 103
To each their own, obviously, but I‘d much prefer if people used a common name for Lines 1 and 2. Personally, I think it’s silly that some people are still adamant that one line is “the LRT” and the other is “the O-Train”.

It also depends on the context, as Line 1 is definitely an LRT by nature of the system (albeit, one that operates more like a light metro) but that has nothing to do with what we call it during day to day conversation. For example, the two LRT lines U/C in Toronto will be named Lines 5 and 6 and officially be part of the TTC subway system, even though the trains themselves are LRVs. I highly doubt that Torontonians will coin a new term just for these new lines - it’ll all still be simply “the subway”. Take another example in Calgary, their system is way more similar to a true LRT than ours, yet I hear more people over there refer to it by its given name (C-Train) than we do with our system.

I think O-Train is a a simple, recognizable, easy-to-say (less syllables than “LRT”) name for our system that‘s broad enough to encompass whatever possible changes/additions we make to the network going forward (e.g. Line 2 electrification/twinning, Carling tram, etc.)

Anyways, this issue probably isn’t all that important in the grand scheme of things, but simply more of a pet peeve of mine. I have my own suspicions that we’ll see things change when Stage 2 is complete and Line 2’s ridership grows beyond its current niche to include RSS and airport passengers.
     
     
  #14807  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 8:52 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannwagon View Post
To each their own, obviously, but I‘d much prefer if people used a common name for Lines 1 and 2. Personally, I think it’s silly that some people are still adamant that one line is “the LRT” and the other is “the O-Train”.

It also depends on the context, as Line 1 is definitely an LRT by nature of the system (albeit, one that operates more like a light metro) but that has nothing to do with what we call it during day to day conversation. For example, the two LRT lines U/C in Toronto will be named Lines 5 and 6 and officially be part of the TTC subway system, even though the trains themselves are LRVs. I highly doubt that Torontonians will coin a new term just for these new lines - it’ll all still be simply “the subway”. Take another example in Calgary, their system is way more similar to a true LRT than ours, yet I hear more people over there refer to it by its given name (C-Train) than we do with our system.

I think O-Train is a a simple, recognizable, easy-to-say (less syllables than “LRT”) name for our system that‘s broad enough to encompass whatever possible changes/additions we make to the network going forward (e.g. Line 2 electrification/twinning, Carling tram, etc.)

Anyways, this issue probably isn’t all that important in the grand scheme of things, but simply more of a pet peeve of mine. I have my own suspicions that we’ll see things change when Stage 2 is complete and Line 2’s ridership grows beyond its current niche to include RSS and airport passengers.
Yes, I find it interesting that today, the new TTC LRT lines that run on the surface for much of their route will be included within the "Subway" while 35 years ago, when Line 3 was built, the TTC named it the "Scarborough RT", making a clear distinction between it and the subway. I wonder what will happen with #3 once the Scarborough RT is dismantled (assuming the Bloor extension to Scarborough is ever built).

I was glad to see that OC Transpo had made the decision to have both the Trillium and Confederation lines us the "O-Train" moniker even if they use different technologies, though disappointed that to this day, it hasn't really caught on. I hope you're right that with the completion of Stage 2 Trillium, which will encompass the same branding, architecture (even if value engineered) and wayfinding ("O" pylons in particular) as the Confederation, the media and general population starts adapting O-Train as opposed to LRT and distinguish the lines as "1" and "2" and/or Trillium and Confederation.

On a side note, I wonder how they will distinguish the Algonquin and Moodie branches. Different colours? Different shades of red? Line 1-A/Line 1-B? IMO, it would be best to have them as two distinct lines (number, colour and name) on the map, similar to the original Expo/Millennium interline (current Expo configuration features a split, and they don't seem to distinguish the branches other than in the name of the terminus station) or Edmonton's Capital/Metro lines. The same could be asked for the Airport and Trillium lines that are, for all intensive purposes, independent from one another were it not for the one shared platform at South Keys.

Last edited by J.OT13; Sep 27, 2020 at 9:02 PM.
     
     
  #14808  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 12:24 AM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Yes, I find it interesting that today, the new TTC LRT lines that run on the surface for much of their route will be included within the "Subway" while 35 years ago, when Line 3 was built, the TTC named it the "Scarborough RT", making a clear distinction between it and the subway. I wonder what will happen with #3 once the Scarborough RT is dismantled (assuming the Bloor extension to Scarborough is ever built).

I was glad to see that OC Transpo had made the decision to have both the Trillium and Confederation lines us the "O-Train" moniker even if they use different technologies, though disappointed that to this day, it hasn't really caught on. I hope you're right that with the completion of Stage 2 Trillium, which will encompass the same branding, architecture (even if value engineered) and wayfinding ("O" pylons in particular) as the Confederation, the media and general population starts adapting O-Train as opposed to LRT and distinguish the lines as "1" and "2" and/or Trillium and Confederation.

On a side note, I wonder how they will distinguish the Algonquin and Moodie branches. Different colours? Different shades of red? Line 1-A/Line 1-B? IMO, it would be best to have them as two distinct lines (number, colour and name) on the map, similar to the original Expo/Millennium interline (current Expo configuration features a split, and they don't seem to distinguish the branches other than in the name of the terminus station) or Edmonton's Capital/Metro lines. The same could be asked for the Airport and Trillium lines that are, for all intensive purposes, independent from one another were it not for the one shared platform at South Keys.
I always figured the whole point of adding a number was so they could number the branches. Makes for better wayfinding if I know a 1 goes to baseline and a 3 goes to Moodie.

It took years for Otrain to catch on with the original line too. It was after the media stopped talking about the "Light Rail" train that it caught on.
     
     
  #14809  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 6:34 AM
TheMatth69 TheMatth69 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 158
Medias like CBC or CTV still tend to call both line LRT. I even saw once they qualified the Trillium line as a ''Diesel LRT line'' so I think they actually don't have any clue what an LRT really is. Same goes for the City Hall when they talk about expending LRT East, West and SOUTH ???
The Confederation Line without the rolling stock would be considered a Metro system. I liked the idea of rebranding the whole thing MetrO but this would include the Trillium line that is nothing of a metro (closer to a commuter rail line if you ask me)
     
     
  #14810  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 1:14 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
I always figured the whole point of adding a number was so they could number the branches. Makes for better wayfinding if I know a 1 goes to baseline and a 3 goes to Moodie.

It took years for Otrain to catch on with the original line too. It was after the media stopped talking about the "Light Rail" train that it caught on.
I wish they would have numbered Trillium as "Line 3" so that the two branches of Confederation would be Lines 1 and 2.
     
     
  #14811  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 2:46 PM
Dundas's Avatar
Dundas Dundas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: God's country of Orleans
Posts: 266
Won't it be as simple as a train on Line 1 that departs from Trim Station with destination sign saying "Baseline" is going to Baseline Station and the train with a destination sign saying "Moodie" is going to Moodie Station?

If someone from Trim is getting off at Rideau for example than any train will do, the terminus station doesn't really matter.
     
     
  #14812  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 3:03 PM
roger1818's Avatar
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Stittsville, ON
Posts: 6,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I wish they would have numbered Trillium as "Line 3" so that the two branches of Confederation would be Lines 1 and 2.
Or name it Line 1 as it was the first to be built. Even better I wish they named them lines A and B. That way they wouldn't have had to renumber the low numbered buses, but that is all water under the bridge now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundas View Post
Won't it be as simple as a train on Line 1 that departs from Trim Station with destination sign saying "Baseline" is going to Baseline Station and the train with a destination sign saying "Moodie" is going to Moodie Station?

If someone from Trim is getting off at Rideau for example than any train will do, the terminus station doesn't really matter.
I agree. I suspect they will use the same convention they have been using for bus routs that branch and call them routes 1A and 1B. It is route 1 for most of the way, but the A and B which branch it takes in the suburbs.
     
     
  #14813  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 3:11 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundas View Post
Won't it be as simple as a train on Line 1 that departs from Trim Station with destination sign saying "Baseline" is going to Baseline Station and the train with a destination sign saying "Moodie" is going to Moodie Station?

If someone from Trim is getting off at Rideau for example than any train will do, the terminus station doesn't really matter.
I suspect you're right, as with the Expo Line in its current configuration.
     
     
  #14814  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 3:22 PM
Brannwagon Brannwagon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundas View Post
Won't it be as simple as a train on Line 1 that departs from Trim Station with destination sign saying "Baseline" is going to Baseline Station and the train with a destination sign saying "Moodie" is going to Moodie Station?

If someone from Trim is getting off at Rideau for example than any train will do, the terminus station doesn't really matter.
That's my guess as well. The next train arrival screens on W/B platforms should reflect this too.

However, if the plan is to have all E/B trains originating from Algonquin go to Trim and all trains originating from Moodie terminate at Blair, then maybe it would be worth distinguishing the two branches as two separate lines that are interlined between Lincoln Fields and Blair, similar to Edmonton's system.
     
     
  #14815  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 3:37 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,131
One thing that bothers me with the current system is that electronic screens only display arrival of the next two trains. Considering the Stage 2 Confederation will have 4 destination points, this could cause confusion for some who might crowd the platform or the stairs waiting for the next arrival to roll-over.
     
     
  #14816  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 3:44 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nepean
Posts: 2,681
I have to think that the branch to Moodie and Baseline must have been an option back when they were designing Stage 1. So, how come they installed 2-line LED signs for the ‘Next Train’ signs? So that they could show BOTH destinations, maybe.

NEXT TRAIN:
Moodie in 3 min.
Baseline in 7 min.
     
     
  #14817  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 3:47 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannwagon View Post
That's my guess as well. The next train arrival screens on W/B platforms should reflect this too.

However, if the plan is to have all E/B trains originating from Algonquin go to Trim and all trains originating from Moodie terminate at Blair, then maybe it would be worth distinguishing the two branches as two separate lines that are interlined between Lincoln Fields and Blair, similar to Edmonton's system.
That's not what the plan is though... in the O-Train fans interview with Pat Scrimgeour earlier this year, he indicated that at peak, there will be trains from Trim to both Baseline and Moodie. In AM peak, half the Moodie trains will start at Blair, but at other times all Moodie trains will start at Trim.

He talks about the two "branches" as well; so I think the intention is that it will all be "Line 1".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzjIGQNcB3s starting around 22:40.
     
     
  #14818  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 3:56 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
I have to think that the branch to Moodie and Baseline must have been an option back when they were designing Stage 1. So, how come they installed 2-line LED signs for the ‘Next Train’ signs? So that they could show BOTH destinations, maybe.

NEXT TRAIN:
Moodie in 3 min.
Baseline in 7 min.
Displays on the platform show the next two in the direction of the travel, but displays at the concourse level show the next two trains period. It's the concourse displays that will be an issue.
     
     
  #14819  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 4:03 PM
Brannwagon Brannwagon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
That's not what the plan is though... in the O-Train fans interview with Pat Scrimgeour earlier this year, he indicated that at peak, there will be trains from Trim to both Baseline and Moodie. In AM peak, half the Moodie trains will start at Blair, but at other times all Moodie trains will start at Trim.

He talks about the two "branches" as well; so I think the intention is that it will all be "Line 1".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzjIGQNcB3s starting around 22:40.
Thanks for the clarification.

I also thought of an example that would probably closely resemble ours once the extension is done. On Boston's MBTA Green Line, W/B trains branch into four different termini (B, C, D and E). Eastbound, there is only one branch, but only "E" trains continue to the terminus, Lechmere. B, C and D trains terminate a few stations short of Lechmere.
     
     
  #14820  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 4:44 PM
roger1818's Avatar
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Stittsville, ON
Posts: 6,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
I have to think that the branch to Moodie and Baseline must have been an option back when they were designing Stage 1. So, how come they installed 2-line LED signs for the ‘Next Train’ signs? So that they could show BOTH destinations, maybe.

NEXT TRAIN:
Moodie in 3 min.
Baseline in 7 min.
I have seen other cities have the displays say something like this:

NEXT TRAIN:
Moodie in 3 & 11 min.
Baseline in 7 & 15 min.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:37 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.