Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Henbo]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

There are a lot more people on the North Shore that use the Seabus than just lower Lonsdale. The Seabus station is the hub for most of the North Shore's bus network, and the scheduling makes the Seabus an easy transfer. The bus routes over the bridges are used mostly by people who are heading to destinations other than downtown.

Idk, as a North Shore commuter to downtown, I disagree with this.

Getting to the Quay on transit in North Van is kind of a slog. Then there is a transfer and bit of a wait. Then the Seabus journey. Then a transfer/wait or a long walk.

The up to 30 minute wait at nights are a killer

A bus from phibbs or park royal to downtown is a lot more quick then people think (with transit queue jump too). Plus when you get to phibbs or park royal chances are your bus is already destined for downtown, so no transfer required

The 240 + 250 alone carry more per day than the seabus (yes, they do have more than 2 stops though)

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Henbo

The up to 30 minute wait at nights are a killer

I mean they were doing every 15 minute service off-peak since 2017 (excluding corona related cutbacks and strikes)

[Henbo]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I mean they were doing every 15 minute service off-peak since 2017 (excluding corona related cutbacks and strikes)

Actually, at night, it was still 30 min (as of September 2019): http://infomaps.translink.ca/Schedules_by_Region/155/NVan.p.1-44.pdf

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by officedweller

My guess is that it's all hard granite over there.
There was also the nightmare that resulted during the tunnel boring of the Seymour-Capilano water tunnels.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Around the base of the Lions Gate Bridge to Lonsdale Quay:



https://news.gov.bc.ca/files/9-15_Burrard_Inlet_study.pdf

Fair enough, but where do you put an elevated line? The R2 route is arguably the most viable pathway for a high-capacity transit line, as it's the primary east-west road system on the North Shore other than the highway. There's just not enough density now or in the foreseeable future to go higher than that to the west of Lonsdale in the District, and nowhere dense enough or practical other than the Park Royal-Dundarave strip in West Vancouver. A station in Central Lonsdale would probably be doable if you go up Keith Road, but then you lose the Quay connection and the grade complicates coming back down to reach Moodyville and the Main Street/Phibbs Exchange area to the east.

So, assuming we are looking at a route similar to the R2, how do we build it as an elevated line? Marine Drive and Main Street are key arteries but they are not particularly wide roadways. It was enough of a challenge to carve out dedicated bus lanes for the R2, let alone the space needed for centre pylons. Beyond that, there have been a fair number of new three-story residential developments along Marine that would find themselves to be uncomfortably close to a new SkyTrain track. It's not impossible, by any stretch, but public support may not be there for what is perceived as an intrusive line. North Shore residents have, in the past, shown that they would give up some of the higher-capacity infrastructure such as expanded highways and bridges and rapid transit if those would require a material shift in the nature of life on the North Shore, such as with massive increases in density.

[Migrant_Coconut]

TransLink can just say "fine, have fun with your RapidBus." Not their job to dance around North Shore residents who want to have their cake and eat it too - there's plenty of other munis who'd want a SkyTrain viaduct.

I'd argue that East 3rd or Keith could handle it, given the lower density and setbacks.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Fair enough, but where do you put an elevated line? The R2 route is arguably the most viable pathway for a high-capacity transit line, as it's the primary east-west road system on the North Shore other than the highway. There's just not enough density now or in the foreseeable future to go higher than that to the west of Lonsdale in the District, and nowhere dense enough or practical other than the Park Royal-Dundarave strip in West Vancouver. A station in Central Lonsdale would probably be doable if you go up Keith Road, but then you lose the Quay connection and the grade complicates coming back down to reach Moodyville and the Main Street/Phibbs Exchange area to the east.

So, assuming we are looking at a route similar to the R2, how do we build it as an elevated line? Marine Drive and Main Street are key arteries but they are not particularly wide roadways. It was enough of a challenge to carve out dedicated bus lanes for the R2, let alone the space needed for centre pylons. Beyond that, there have been a fair number of new three-story residential developments along Marine that would find themselves to be uncomfortably close to a new SkyTrain track. It's not impossible, by any stretch, but public support may not be there for what is perceived as an intrusive line. North Shore residents have, in the past, shown that they would give up some of the higher-capacity infrastructure such as expanded highways and bridges and rapid transit if those would require a material shift in the nature of life on the North Shore, such as with massive increases in density.

The Brockton route that cuts through Pemberton to Cap Mall already was the one in the study that goes up Keith and then to Central Lonsdale (not the Quay). Their assumption that it's elevated is one of the reasons I chose this route since I agree with you that there's some sections of Marine that make it very impractical way to route it east/west on an elevated guideway. I guess this might be one reason why a tunnel crossing that terminates at the Quay might end up being the "chosen" option even with all the engineering challenges. Or you do the Second Narrows bridge then expropriate land along Main to make room for a guideway over to Lonsdale.

I know there's a lot of new developments around the Quay but I wonder if it's a "must" to have the line terminate there. If anything they've already built out most of the lower Quay with mostly stubby new towers while there's still more older buildings in Central Lonsdale that could be redeveloped with somewhat higher density.

[officedweller]

Without having knowledge about the soil, etc over there, just looking at the map (armchair style) a few things strike me regarding routing:

- Keith Road lines up nicely with Marine Dr. in the west and Seylynn and Maplewood (east bridge allignment with future station?) in the east and is high enough on Lonsdale to provide connectivity to Central Lonsdale, but has a scenic boulevard with Victoria Park and a cenotaph in the middle. So if Keith Road is chosen, it would probably have to be tunnel (cut & cover?) under the boulevard and Victoria Park, from, say Mahon to St. David's or maybe divert to 8th St. in that area.

- 3rd St. lines up well with Marine Dr. in the west but lines up with Main St. in the east. Main St. will be single loaded with population only to the north due to the industrial areas to the south, although it is close to the Seylynn area but would probably prevent a future station at Maplewood since that might favour a west bridge.

[casper]

Neat video that looks at Bus, Skytrain training and even looks at the engines and cabs for SeaBus and Westcoast Express.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xc9RGzM1tM

[mellowyellow]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

There are a lot more people on the North Shore that use the Seabus than just lower Lonsdale. The Seabus station is the hub for most of the North Shore's bus network, and the scheduling makes the Seabus an easy transfer. The bus routes over the bridges are used mostly by people who are heading to destinations other than downtown.

Actually the seabus is not the recommended route for a lot of starting points on the north shore (outside of LoLo) for going downtown. If you try using Google Maps' transit route function. Put your destination somewhere downtown besides waterfront station (e.g. Robson, Yaletown, Davie, etc.), and try having your starting point from places on the north shore like central lonsdale, lynn valley, west van, pemberton, seylynn, maplewood, etc. The recommended route is almost always to take a bus
or 2 buses (which goes over one of the two bridges), as opposed to taking a bus to Lonsdale Quay to take seabus across and finding your way from there. The transfer penalties and the long walks / wait time with Seabus makes the bus options faster for many instances on trips to downtown destinations.

[Mac Write]

I don't follow politics. The only issues for me are Public Transit and Disability assistance.

With an official provincial election now underway, what are the canaditates saying about Public Transit (UBC, Langely, SFU)?

[Migrant_Coconut]

... Who the hell has a transit platform ready to go on the same day they call an election?

[Express691]

My latest video is on the Expo Line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfLax3aDTY8

[Tvisforme]

It will be interesting to see if this afternoon's Throne Speech mention of increased infrastructure spending will translate into an earlier start to the UBC and Langley extensions and the SFU gondola. We've heard the promises about infrastructure before, of course, but now - with the added push to create jobs and spend on green projects - I wonder if it will tip things in favour of those lines.

[GeeCee]

I think the gondola has too many ducks that are not yet aligned (such as the alignment) to be talking about funding, even as part of an election campaign. And given the responses that I saw to the recent community outreach regarding it, the proposed project seems to have very low levels of support outside of the transit nerd circle.

[s211]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

the proposed project seems to have very low levels of support outside of the transit nerd circle.

Ding ding ding.

[Xrayal]

Here are some of my highlights from the upcoming Translink board of directors meeting on Sept 28. Link

• As of August 10, all conventional buses in the CMBC fleet transitioned to new paper fare media. The new media does not include a specific date, rather a colour/symbol, so all unused booklets are collected by the Farebox Revenue team at the end of each day and stored for reuse.

• Planned modifications to the Burrard Chinook were delayed due to Singapore’s COVID-19 restrictions. Singapore began their gradual reopening over the summer and work resumed on the vessel on August 11.

Broadway subway-
The Province has provided TransLink with quotations of the two Priced Option Items from the BSP proponents: i) a new Transit Police Hub facility at Broadway City Hall station and, Transit Police sub-offices at Mount Pleasant and Arbutus stations, and ii) using machine-roomless passenger elevators for all stations. The decision to proceed was granted by the Project Steering Committee on July 6, 2020 since they are well within affordability, and a confirmation letter was sent to the Province on July 14, 2020 for acceptance of the quotations.

Low Carbon Fleet-
Management plans to replace 57 diesel buses slated for retirement in 2023 through deployment of on-route charge buses from Port Coquitlam Transit Centre instead of via depot charged buses at Marpole Transit Centre.

Surrey Langley Skytrain-
To develop and approve the next Investment Plan, TransLink will need to reset its projected revenues and expenditures for the upcoming ten-year period, confirm available senior government funding, recapitalize its depleted reserves and re-prioritize the existing capital plan. The MOU signed between TransLink and the Province on June 25, 2020 identifies the importance of the SLS project and confirms the parties intention to working together to understand how the project fits into the recovery and rebuilding strategy for the regional transportation system. Management continues to work with Senior Government to secure project and funding approval.

COVID impacts/potential opportunities-

o Creation of 3-5 cycling showcases in the region. This action would involve rapid deployment of separated bikeway networks and bike parking within three to five Urban Centres in the region.
o Identifying 3-5 Major Bikeway Network corridors that are "low hanging fruit" for completing, and fund rapid deployment to complete segment with either permanent or temporary (tactical) infrastructure.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I think the gondola has too many ducks that are not yet aligned (such as the alignment) to be talking about funding, even as part of an election campaign. And given the responses that I saw to the recent community outreach regarding it, the proposed project seems to have very low levels of support outside of the transit nerd circle.

I'd argue that the only opinions that would kill the project right now are Burnaby Council or the Mayors' Council. Community outreach is more for the detailed decisions than the big ones.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Xrayal

Low Carbon Fleet-
Management plans to replace 57 diesel buses slated for retirement in 2023 through deployment of on-route charge buses from Port Coquitlam Transit Centre instead of via depot charged buses at Marpole Transit Centre.

Thanks I noticed this as well which I must have missed among all the COVID craziness:

Procurement for up to 15 battery electric buses closed in early March 2020. Technical and commercial
evaluations are being finalized. Once delivered in 2021 these electric buses will enable Route 100 to be
the first fully electrified route in the TransLink network.

I'm glad they made this happen before the end of the lengthy "trial" period.

If we are truly in a "Climate Emergency", no transit agency should be buying carbon emitting vehicles when alternatives exist.

[Mac Write]

In the RRT future lines plans were does the Hasting > SFU line fall? I ask because of the Gondola. Would having both running (15yrs from now) make sense?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

In the RRT future lines plans were does the Hasting > SFU line fall? I ask because of the Gondola. Would having both running (15yrs from now) make sense?

Having gone to SFU, albeit several decades ago, I don't know if the Gondola would render the Hastings - SFU route superfluous. Metro Vancouver sprawls.
The Gondola, presumably stationed at Lougheed Mall, would, I imagine, take a lot of SFU traffic from the south and east, and the Hastings rrt / bus from the West and North.
I may be wrong, but that's how it strikes me at the moment.