PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by City Wide

none of the 4 proposals look like they spent much money on design. Who cares to wager on a over/under date for anything happening at this site? My guess is at least 3 years. But I'm guessing less then a month for the first law suit to be filed. This is Penn's Landing after all. By the time they are ready to build their plans will be down to a couple of townhouses.

Well, nothing is going to happen until the park gets underway. The city said they already earmarked money for it, so hopefully that happens. If the park happens, then I don't see why the plan couldn't. According to DWRC, they plan to start construction on the park in the second half of next year, so a year or two before development starts here doesn't seem too unreasonable, especially (and it seems likely) if the cap project gets pushed back to 2022 or beyond.

[JohnIII]

A date if 2028; that's fast! They have everything lined up then.

[New2Fishtown]

Durst's NYC track record is incredibly strong, what with having built the country's tallest building and all. I'll admit the optics of what appears to be their Philly track record are strange, in that from the public view they've had rights to develop several other large (and easier) parcels for several years and have barely budged. My only guess is that for DRWC to have such confidence in their commitment and capabilities, they must know behind the scenes that Durst is making progress and is able to follow through. Otherwise, what they've done is grant basically exclusive access to every site between South and Callowhill to a single entity. So you've really got to hope that Durst is correct that they don't need any subsidies (Which I think is a huge win) and that they're able to get cracking soon.

[thoughtcriminal]

I hate a lot of things, but I don't hate the Durst proposal. I doubt it will be built exactly as proposed, but as long as they don't accept any public subsidies then I wish them luck.
So now what happens with the Sixers? I can't believe they would go into a process like this, showing their hand that they want to leave Wells Fargo, without a backup plan in case they were rejected. Do they solicit RFP's from developers for other sites in the city? Do they allow themselves to be "courted" (pun intended) by New Jersey? Do they try to negotiate a better lease at Wells Fargo to prevent them from leaving?

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

So now what happens with the Sixers? I can't believe they would go into a process like this, showing their hand that they want to leave Wells Fargo, without a backup plan in case they were rejected. Do they solicit RFP's from developers for other sites in the city? Do they allow themselves to be "courted" (pun intended) by New Jersey? Do they try to negotiate a better lease at Wells Fargo to prevent them from leaving?

If they're looking for subsidies, the only place that makes sense to me is decking over the rail yards near 30th street station. It'd be kind of an iconic location and probably could be seen from the parkway. Otherwise, may as well stay put in the stadium complex, although I hate how barren it is there. I guess maybe near Franklin square makes sense, as others have proposed.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

Durst's NYC track record is incredibly strong, what with having built the country's tallest building and all. I'll admit the optics of what appears to be their Philly track record are strange, in that from the public view they've had rights to develop several other large (and easier) parcels for several years and have barely budged. My only guess is that for DRWC to have such confidence in their commitment and capabilities, they must know behind the scenes that Durst is making progress and is able to follow through. Otherwise, what they've done is grant basically exclusive access to every site between South and Callowhill to a single entity. So you've really got to hope that Durst is correct that they don't need any subsidies (Which I think is a huge win) and that they're able to get cracking soon.

It’s very risky to hand the whole waterfront over to one developer. Hope it works but we are putting a ton of faith in a company that hasn’t executed in this city yet. Not to mention they’re known for being conservative and thinking in terms of decades rather than years.

[iheartphilly]

^
hopefully market conditions will be favorable in the years to come to bear this proposal into fruition. the numbers provided above are big numbers and to commit financial to the proposal, there has to be a demand for what will be built. durst will be crunching the numbers and studying the market and will be making revisions along the way...no question about that.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by Skintreesnail

If they're looking for subsidies, the only place that makes sense to me is decking over the rail yards near 30th street station. It'd be kind of an iconic location and probably could be seen from the parkway. Otherwise, may as well stay put in the stadium complex, although I hate how barren it is there. I guess maybe near Franklin square makes sense, as others have proposed.

I don't think they'd put it at 30th Street. There already is a long range plan called 30th Street District that envisions decking over part of the rail yards for office and residential buildings. Kind of pie in the sky, and it depends in part on the success of Schuylkill Yards, but still there are a lot of stakeholders in that plan that have kind of called dibs on that area. link:https://www.som.com/projects/philadelphia_30th_street_station_district_plan
I mentioned this in another thread, but if they're going to build, they should build a small arena on the former site of the Vet. That would replace the Spectrum, which should not have been demolished. They could bring back minor league hockey and other events, overflow from Wells Fargo. And if they do that, they should include some mixed use with it as well.

[Boku]

Tallest proposed building on the site is 703'.

http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/ol...rst-organization-redevelop-penns-landing

[summersm343]

Penn's Landing Redevelopment Thread
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9036565#post9036565

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Skintreesnail

If they're looking for subsidies, the only place that makes sense to me is decking over the rail yards near 30th street station. It'd be kind of an iconic location and probably could be seen from the parkway.

I've said this for a while and totally agree. Decking over some of those rail yards adjacent to Cira Center is a pipe dream for land reclamation purposes - at least in our lifetimes. It's just a dead-zone on the river - but this could be a really smart use of totally useless space.

An arena here would check so many boxes - perfectly accessible to pretty much all forms of transit including I76/676; walkable to Center City and University City for businesses, residents, tourists, and students; highly visible; could help activate the River and area just North of 30th street.

Plus no real NIMBYs or stakeholders to contend with. It's super central no man's land.

[phillyskyscraperbro9]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I've said this for a while and totally agree. Decking over some of those rail yards adjacent to Cira Center is a pipe dream for land reclamation purposes - at least in our lifetimes. It's just a dead-zone on the river - but this could be a really smart use of totally useless space.

An arena here would check so many boxes - perfectly accessible to pretty much all forms of transit including I76/676; walkable to Center City and University City for businesses, residents, tourists, and students; highly visible; could help activate the River and area just North of 30th street.

Plus no real NIMBYs or stakeholders to contend with. It's super central no man's land.

I think we can all agree that rail transportation serves a critical function in sustaining our economy and connecting us all together. Also, I think an arena anywhere would serve as a place for Philadelphians of all types to come together.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by City Wide

none of the 4 proposals look like they spent much money on design. Who cares to wager on a over/under date for anything happening at this site? My guess is at least 3 years. But I'm guessing less then a month for the first law suit to be filed. This is Penn's Landing after all. By the time they are ready to build their plans will be down to a couple of townhouses.

For the win. Don't forget the metal bays.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

I hate a lot of things, but I don't hate the Durst proposal. I doubt it will be built exactly as proposed, but as long as they don't accept any public subsidies then I wish them luck.
So now what happens with the Sixers? I can't believe they would go into a process like this, showing their hand that they want to leave Wells Fargo, without a backup plan in case they were rejected. Do they solicit RFP's from developers for other sites in the city? Do they allow themselves to be "courted" (pun intended) by New Jersey? Do they try to negotiate a better lease at Wells Fargo to prevent them from leaving?

considering their lease doesnt expire until 2030 or so they have PLENTY of time to figure something out. They dont need to start construction until 2026 or 2027. I am a bit surprised they are looking to move out after a 250m upgrade of the current arena. The mass transit connections at penns landing are not as strong as current site so I hope their final location is better from that perspective.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

The RFP by DRWC was for both plots (Market St and the "Marina site")

Right, I get that, but my question is why? I'm unable to think of a single upside. Someone help me out.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Right, I get that, but my question is why? I'm unable to think of a single upside. Someone help me out.

This is just my opinion, but after listening to the meeting yesterday - it seems that the DRWC wanted a cohesive plan for basically the center-portion of the 6 miles of riverfront (a plan within a plan). So we know the cap park is underway and will be the centerpiece, and they wanted the bookends of the cap park - north and south - to be essentially done together, with the same developer, same planning/thought process in mind. The key factors being: green spaces, heavy residential, pedestrian friendly. So I think for this vital central portion, the heart of the Delaware/Penn's Landing, doing it all together made most sense to the DRWC than getting other developers with possibly other interests involved (more parties, more possibility for more delays, financing, yada yada). That's my guess.

As far as the Sixers, don't you think they absolutely leaked their plans to the press hoping for some sort of public outcry of support? Listening to the DRWC yesterday, this was a many phase proposal process with a lot of back and forth. I don't believe for a second that Sixers did not realize that their plans did not fit at all with the master plan or what the DRWC was looking for -- so in a last grasp for power/control, leaked all the info and renderings to try to influence things yesterday. I am glad they failed.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

As far as the Sixers, don't you think they absolutely leaked their plans to the press hoping for some sort of public outcry of support? Listening to the DRWC yesterday, this was a many phase proposal process with a lot of back and forth. I don't believe for a second that Sixers did not realize that their plans did not fit at all with the master plan or what the DRWC was looking for -- so in a last grasp for power/control, leaked all the info and renderings to try to influence things yesterday. I am glad they failed.

Yeah, it's no coincidence that about a week before this decision was made the Sixers plans were leaked lol. (And only the Sixers plan leaked.)

[3rd&Brown]

I think one thing that works in favor of this kicking off and being completed quickly is that the NY apartment market is being absolutely gutted. Last I read, there are 14,000 unoccupied units in NYC and the number is growing.

On top of that, there are a ton of projects in progress which I doubt will be halted so owners will likely bring those to completion but have very little appetite for starting more.

Many of these developers are well capitalized and their financing companies need to continue to invest in order to make money. So it may be Durst takes money they would normally invest in NY (or at least prioritize for NY) and bring it here.

So while they have not kicked anything off here yet, it could have just been bc they were spread thin and focused on NY. For lack of a better options given where they already own land (here), they might have no other choice at this point.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I think one thing that works in favor of this kicking off and being completed quickly is that the NY apartment market is being absolutely gutted. Last I read, there are 14,000 unoccupied units in NYC and the number is growing.

On top of that, there are a ton of projects in progress which I doubt will be halted so owners will likely bring those to completion but have very little appetite for starting more.

Many of these developers are well capitalized and their financing companies need to continue to invest in order to make money. So it may be Durst takes money they would normally invest in NY (or at least prioritize for NY) and bring it here.

So while they have not kicked anything off here yet, it could have just been bc they were spread thin and focused on NY. For lack of a better options given where they already own land (here), they might have no other choice at this point.

They could also have been sitting on their land here knowing that this other RFP was coming up (not sure when it was announced, but presumably it was some time ago, and they may have known about it even before then).

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

They could also have been sitting on their land here knowing that this other RFP was coming up (not sure when it was announced, but presumably it was some time ago, and they may have known about it even before then).

Why would the rfp have any impact on their other holdings? They’re sitting on the land because they’re rich, conservative and can afford to.