Transit Fantasies

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by AkariAkaza

Because I chose to have commuter rail instead. I think commuter rail would be a better choice for Langley because it would be faster, so it would be better for longer distance trips into Burnaby and Vancouver, as Langley is far from Vancouver

Originally Posted by officedweller

Got it.

One thing to consider, though, is that under the Regional Growth Strategy, Surrey Central is supposed to be the metropolitan core for the South of Fraser region, so commuters from within Surrey (L-line) and from Langley and beyond (Fraser Hwy) will have Surrey Central as their final destination, not just passing through to Vancouver (and commuter rail on the old SRW line misses Surrey Central directly).
Surrey will also be densifying along the Fraser Highway corridor.

This is what a lot of people assume - that everyone travels from the suburbs to downtown Vancouver for work. There was a survey done years ago (I did a quick look and didn't see it on here - anyone?) that showed it isn't true. A bunch of people from Burnaby and Richmond travel to Vancouver but those are two areas that are next door to Van. In the majority of cases people stay within their own city or travel to the city next door for work.

So to have more transit that funnels people into downtown Van isn't what's really needed. Plus since then Surrey Central is being built up to be the SoF downtown and the various cities in the region are creating their own mini downtowns. What's needed is to join all the various downtowns together.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Agreed, RapidBuses and express buses are most definitely needed for most of the region, especially with all that greenspace in the middle. But I'd argue that it's easier to plan those routes so that everybody can go everywhere, instead of trying to anticipate future growth and/or commuting patterns and getting it wrong.

In this scenario, there's no real east-west rapid connections south of the Fraser, and only two north-south ones. Cloverdale, Guildford and Fleetwood (two-fifths of Metro Surrey), Walnut Grove and Fort Langley are especially overlooked in that regard; if I live in one and work/learn in another, screw it, I'm taking an Uber.

Oh please can we have more RapidBuses and express buses! I'd love to see someone's map of where they'd put them across the region (aka not just in the CoV). I've drawn countless maps (and pretty much the entire region as a pandemic project) and sent them off to TransLink. It would be great if I wasn't the only person doing this -ok I know I'm not but it feels like it sometimes. I've gotten some great ideas from maps on here.

[AkariAkaza]

Originally Posted by Sheba

This is what a lot of people assume - that everyone travels from the suburbs to downtown Vancouver for work. There was a survey done years ago (I did a quick look and didn't see it on here - anyone?) that showed it isn't true. A bunch of people from Burnaby and Richmond travel to Vancouver but those are two areas that are next door to Van. In the majority of cases people stay within their own city or travel to the city next door for work.

So to have more transit that funnels people into downtown Van isn't what's really needed. Plus since then Surrey Central is being built up to be the SoF downtown and the various cities in the region are creating their own mini downtowns. What's needed is to join all the various downtowns together.

It would still be possible to go from Langley to Surrey Central by using my Fraser Line, by transferring at Newton. I don't think it would be slower than a direct Skytrain route on Fraser Hwy. I could be wrong of course, there hasn't been any studies for this idea, but the faster trains speeds and less stations in between (only one in Cloverdale) would at the very least make up for transfer times and match the time it would take on a direct route, maybe even surpass it. As for people who live/work in between, I think RapidBus would be a better choice because of the lower population density in the present day.

[trofirhen]

I think the Fraser Line is a central component to a regional transit system. Whether people will use it to commute into / out of downtown Vancouver, or for intermediate journeys,
it seems an element that has got to come. Langley, Abbotsford and Chilliwack will only continue to grow as both regional centres and commuter suburbs, and Fraser Line will be essential.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Oh please can we have more RapidBuses and express buses! I'd love to see someone's map of where they'd put them across the region (aka not just in the CoV). I've drawn countless maps (and pretty much the entire region as a pandemic project) and sent them off to TransLink. It would be great if I wasn't the only person doing this -ok I know I'm not but it feels like it sometimes. I've gotten some great ideas from maps on here.

I'd say at the very least, no matter what train gets built where, that 88th and 152nd should each have one.

Originally Posted by AkariAkaza

As for people who live/work in between, I think RapidBus would be a better choice because of the lower population density in the present day.

But the only real density right now is around Whalley; the rest, including Newton and Guildford, is kind of a blank slate. And according to Surrey's growth estimates, that lower population in-between might be higher than you think.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by waves

Love the North shore ideas! I think I agree with the others however on Skytrain to Langley. To add my own wacky fairy tale and pin the tail on another rainbow donkey, here is an add on to your map: A Seymour Gondola!

Sorry to ignore your main point, but just curious how you came up with your North Vancouver - Seymour North Shore Skytrain stations?

[waves]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Sorry to ignore your main point, but just curious how you came up with your North Vancouver - Seymour North Shore Skytrain stations?

The three stations you see are Dollarton (a new and growing village center), Blueridge (right beside the Gym, Pool, Ice Rink, High School and some low density housing complexes), and Parkgate (town center, high density towers, parking for Mt. Seymour).

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by waves

The three stations you see are Dollarton (a new and growing village center), Blueridge (right beside the Gym, Pool, Ice Rink, High School and some low density housing complexes), and Parkgate (town center, high density towers, parking for Mt. Seymour).

I think you may want to call it "Maplewood" rather than "Dollarton". While the new town centre is near the Dollarton Highway ("highway" meaning "winding two-lane 40-50 km/h local road" in this context), it is known as Maplewood. The Dollarton neighbourhood is further out toward Deep Cove and would probably belong in a "'Transit Fantasies' Fantasies" discussion forum, at least with respect to SkyTrain...

[Express691]

I made a platform jingle for the SkyTrain. Skip to 0:46 if youre in a hurry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmN8k8HH550

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by waves

The three stations you see are Dollarton (a new and growing village center), Blueridge (right beside the Gym, Pool, Ice Rink, High School and some low density housing complexes), and Parkgate (town center, high density towers, parking for Mt. Seymour).

Skytrain to North Shore is a fantasy with a tiny chance of getting built. Who's going to build Skytrain with the biggest development in the route consisting of 1500 residential units, 100K commercial/4500 possible jobs

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Dollarton neighbourhood is further out toward Deep Cove and would probably belong in a "'Transit Fantasies' Fantasies" discussion forum, at least with respect to SkyTrain...

Personally I think any skytrain station in the DNV probably belongs in the "'Transit Fantasies' Fantasies" discussion forum for the next few decades.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Skytrain to North Shore is a fantasy with a tiny chance of getting built. Who's going to build Skytrain with the biggest development in the route consisting of 1500 residential units, 100K commercial/4500 possible jobs

Wasn't Metrotown in the same place in '86? And Cambie/Richmond in '04?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Wasn't Metrotown in the same place in '86? And Cambie/Richmond in '04?

I think there might be a disagreement in understanding here. I'd argue that linking the CNV to downtown is a no-brainer (given appropriate funding), but skytrain across the North Shore might not even be considered for decades.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I think there might be a disagreement in understanding here. I'd argue that linking the CNV to downtown is a no-brainer (given appropriate funding), but skytrain across the North Shore might not even be considered for decades.

As in to the DNV? Yeah, not happening by 2050. Park Royal-Phibbs should be on the table though.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Park Royal-Phibbs should be on the table though.

As much as I would like it, what purpose exactly would that line serve? Getting people from Park Royal to Lonsdale? Phibbs to Lonsdale? Certainly not people in the CNV to anywhere. I imagine most transit trips heading through Park Royal or Phibbs are heading across the bridges, not heading into the CNV. Maybe once (if) the legendary Burrard crossing comes online for a better North-South connection there will be a compelling reason to travel across the North Shore.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

As much as I would like it, what purpose exactly would that line serve? Getting people from Park Royal to Lonsdale? Phibbs to Lonsdale? Certainly not people in the CNV to anywhere. I imagine most transit trips heading through Park Royal or Phibbs are heading across the bridges, not heading into the CNV. Maybe once (if) the legendary Burrard crossing comes online for a better North-South connection there will be a compelling reason to travel across the North Shore.

It was mentioned a while ago that most traffic within the North Shore is actually residents moving in the E-W direction. So an Inlet crossing is very much needed and would relieve the bridges, but wouldn't necessarily relieve the CNV itself.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

It was mentioned a while ago that most traffic within the North Shore is actually residents moving in the E-W direction. So an Inlet crossing is very much needed and would relieve the bridges, but wouldn't necessarily relieve the CNV itself.

It was my understanding it's an east west direction to get to the bridges. If you're stopping at the top of both bridges, why would people bother not to drive instead?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

It was my understanding it's an east west direction to get to the bridges. If you're stopping at the top of both bridges, why would people bother not to drive instead?

Not entirely - for one thing, less than a fifth of North Shore residents actually use the bridges every day (though TBF that might be a capacity problem). Add how "downtown" West Van and Lonsdale are destinations in and of themselves, and how Phibbs gets you connections to Phibbs, Cap and Deep Cove, and there's a case for a SkyTrain.

[waves]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

I think you may want to call it "Maplewood" rather than "Dollarton". While the new town centre is near the Dollarton Highway ("highway" meaning "winding two-lane 40-50 km/h local road" in this context), it is known as Maplewood. The Dollarton neighbourhood is further out toward Deep Cove and would probably belong in a "'Transit Fantasies' Fantasies" discussion forum, at least with respect to SkyTrain...

You are right the name should be Maplewood as that is the formal name for the town center. I often forget that because, anecdotally as a North Van local, most people refer to it as Dollarton and not Maplewood because all of the businesses have Dollarton Hwy or Old Dollarton Rd addresses. A skytrain station, or even just a "Welcome to Maplewood Village!" sign might help change that.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Skytrain to North Shore is a fantasy with a tiny chance of getting built. Who's going to build Skytrain with the biggest development in the route consisting of 1500 residential units, 100K commercial/4500 possible jobs

Good thing we are in the Transit Fantasies forum!

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

As in to the DNV? Yeah, not happening by 2050. Park Royal-Phibbs should be on the table though.

If an east-west North Shore Skytrain starting at Park Royal is ever considered, it should end at Maplewood (I used the right name!) and not Phibbs because Maplewood is likely the best space available for an OMC, and because its a growing town center.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Not entirely - for one thing, less than a fifth of North Shore residents actually use the bridges every day (though TBF that might be a capacity problem).

I don't think it matters how many or how few use the bridges, only whether a train across the North Shore makes sense for however many don't. (Also that link doesn't seem to mention anything about how many people on the North Shore use the bridges).

I just haven't seen a convincing statistic that shows me that the R2 corridor will ever warrant a Skytrain in the coming decades.

Add how "downtown" West Van and Lonsdale are destinations in and of themselves, and how Phibbs gets you connections to Phibbs, Cap and Deep Cove, and there's a case for a SkyTrain.

I think there's only a case if those trips would otherwise replace a car ride. As it stands today, if I lived off Pemberton (Ave) and wanted to head to Deep Cove on a weekend, there isn't a hope in hell I'd bother depending on the 211 or 212, even with the R2 let alone a Skytrain taking me to Phibbs lickity split.

Originally Posted by waves

If an east-west North Shore Skytrain starting at Park Royal is ever considered, it should end at Maplewood (I used the right name!) and not Phibbs because Maplewood is likely the best space available for an OMC, and because its a growing town center.

If an east-west is ever considered, a Maplewood station would be heavily dependent on development ever starting on the Innovation District area. Right now it seems effectively dead in the water due to NIMBYism.