Barrhaven LRT | Proposed

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Might just be me, but I feel like having both Knoxdale and Tallwood in that 1km section of Woodroffe is a little overkill. They could probably consolidate those 2 stations into one to cut costs.

First post....here at least....[Meta] the drowning of these threads by certain users was making it impossible to just read for info and then leave [Meta]

As for the stations, they are 1km apart from each other so about average for the confederation line, and there is not many options for connecting to east-west bus route in that corridor.

So assuming one wants to connect Tanglewood, Craig henry, Manordale, and arlington woods to the confederation without sending the buses on a major detour. Then a station at Knoxdale is required. If that's required then its either another station at tallwood or no station for 1.5 Km

Also pains me to suggest this, 1 station at rail line with major bus transfer for the non-existent commuter rail system that keeps floating around.

[J.OT13]

At the end of the video, they acknowledge that it might be built in two phases, with Baseline to Fallowfield as the first stage, and the Transitway conversion to Barrhaven Town Centre as the second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gRMZKlvORk&feature=youtu.be

I imagine the same might happen with Kanata.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

At the end of the video, they acknowledge that it might be built in two phases, with Baseline to Fallowfield as the first stage, and the Transitway conversion to Barrhaven Town Centre as the second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gRMZKlvORk&feature=youtu.be

I imagine the same might happen with Kanata.

We already know that the Kanata extension was planned with potential phases in mind. To Terry Fox, to Palladium, and then to Hazeldean.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

First post....here at least....[Meta] the drowning of these threads by certain users was making it impossible to just read for info and then leave [Meta]

As for the stations, they are 1km apart from each other so about average for the confederation line, and there is not many options for connecting to east-west bus route in that corridor.

So assuming one wants to connect Tanglewood, Craig henry, Manordale, and arlington woods to the confederation without sending the buses on a major detour. Then a station at Knoxdale is required. If that's required then its either another station at tallwood or no station for 1.5 Km

Also pains me to suggest this, 1 station at rail line with major bus transfer for the non-existent commuter rail system that keeps floating around.

Welcome to the forum!

You're right in saying the station spacing is pretty standard for the line. However, given how low-density the surrounding area is, I can't imagine those stations would get enough ridership to justify those massive skytrain-like stations. Bus routes serving the surrounding area will more than likely turn onto Woodroffe and terminate at Baseline Station anyways, so they could easily provide connections to Baseline or another station along Woodroffe (i.e, Knoxdale or Tallwood). I wouldn't worry about needing stations at all the major intersections in the corridor for bus connections.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

We already know that the Kanata extension was planned with potential phases in mind. To Terry Fox, to Palladium, and then to Hazeldean.

The City took the time to breakdown the cost of those three Kanata sections, but Watson was always adamant that the entire Kanata and Barrhaven lines would be built in one shot. This was obviously never realistic, and we're hearing this officially now for Barrhaven.

It's great that the backbone (Stage 1 and 2) were built quickly, but at this point, phasing the rest of the suburban extensions is the best way forward.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The City took the time to breakdown the cost of those three Kanata sections, but Watson was always adamant that the entire Kanata and Barrhaven lines would be built in one shot. This was obviously never realistic, and we're hearing this officially now for Barrhaven.

It's great that the backbone (Stage 1 and 2) were built quickly, but at this point, phasing the rest of the suburban extensions is the best way forward.

From my point of view this isn't any different than what they did with the Kanata EA. Someone like Watson is going to be "adamant" that they'll be built in one shot no matter what. I'm sure they'd at least try to pitch it to the upper governments..

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Welcome to the forum!

You're right in saying the station spacing is pretty standard for the line. However, given how low-density the surrounding area is, I can't imagine those stations would get enough ridership to justify those massive skytrain-like stations. Bus routes serving the surrounding area will more than likely turn onto Woodroffe and terminate at Baseline Station anyways, so they could easily provide connections to Baseline or another station along Woodroffe (i.e, Knoxdale or Tallwood). I wouldn't worry about needing stations at all the major intersections in the corridor for bus connections.

Its also not unheard of density, no real difference between Knoxdale, Iris, Orleans blvd, jeane Dar'c or Ikea (mind you that a bit more of a destination).

Tallwood i'm indifferent about due to its relative proximity to baseline. However for knoxdale the station being at the intersection would go a long way in allowing OC transpo to grid out their routes instead of the current milk run method in that area combining the two routes that run past that intersection (82 & 83) gets ~ 15 minute service.

If Knoxdale moves north then Nepean sportsplex should probably move north along with it as that would mean the stations would still be within reasonable walking distance to the communities (15 min @ 4km/hr or 1km). Otherwise its a 500 M walk through a field to get to a station.

[Truenorth00]

Well put. Designing the system so bus routes don't stay on their primary avenues is bad design. Just build the stations skimpier.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

From my point of view this isn't any different than what they did with the Kanata EA. Someone like Watson is going to be "adamant" that they'll be built in one shot no matter what. I'm sure they'd at least try to pitch it to the upper governments..

What they say and how they pitch it are probably two different things. I have a feeling Fallowfield and Terry Fox will be pitched together.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

Its also not unheard of density, no real difference between Knoxdale, Iris, Orleans blvd, jeane Dar'c or Ikea (mind you that a bit more of a destination).

If they could be built to a similar scale as Iris, I'd say go for it. As for Orleans Blvd, I think that's overkill as well. I can't see it getting much passenger flow.

Tallwood i'm indifferent about due to its relative proximity to baseline. However for knoxdale the station being at the intersection would go a long way in allowing OC transpo to grid out their routes instead of the current milk run method in that area combining the two routes that run past that intersection (82 & 83) gets ~ 15 minute service.

If Knoxdale moves north then Nepean sportsplex should probably move north along with it as that would mean the stations would still be within reasonable walking distance to the communities (15 min @ 4km/hr or 1km). Otherwise its a 500 M walk through a field to get to a station.

That's very close to what I had in mind. I would get rid of Tallwood and shift Knoxdale north. Below is an example of how station buffers (500m) would compare:

[Nexus2049]

Having it elevated isn't a choice I expected to be honest. Very cool, though. I wonder when all that would be completed by

[rocketphish]

Tricky section of Barrhaven LRT should run on elevated guideway, study says

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Sep 09, 2020 • Last Updated 48 minutes ago • 2 minute read



Extending LRT from Algonquin College to the heart of Barrhaven through a tricky section of major intersections should be done using elevated structures along Woodroffe Avenue, rather than digging a tunnel, according to findings of an environmental assessment released to the public.

The “preferred alternative” for a 10-kilometre, double-track line to run electrified trains into the southern suburb has rails completely segregated from the roads, falling in line with the designs for the Confederation Line’s Stage 1 and Stage 2.

One major outstanding question is the cost.

“The project estimate is currently being developed. It will be included in the report to transportation committee later this year,” said Frank McKinney, the city’s program manager for environmental assessments in transportation planning.

LRT extensions to Barrhaven and Kanata would become Stage 3 of the city’s plan to blanket Ottawa with high-speed rail service, connecting the three suburban areas with the core.

Going south from Algonquin College, the train would run 2.4 kilometres along the west side of Woodroffe Avenue to the Nepean Sportsplex (a pedestrian bridge would connect LRT to the sports facility) before running the remaining 7.6 kilometres on a converted southwest Transitway.

When it comes to the alignment of the rail line south of Algonquin College, the study found that tunnelling would be expensive, complicated and take longer to complete. Having trains cross busy roads using a surface-based rail option was out of the question.

According to the study, an elevated LRT line along Woodroffe Avenue wouldn’t act as a barrier to the communities because the space underneath the structure can be landscaped, programmed or used for a path. On the other hand, it would require property and building acquisitions between Knoxdale and Hunt Club roads, in addition to measures to reduce sound and visual annoyances caused by the elevated rail line.

A new train storage and maintenance facility would be near Greenbank Road at the Via Rail overpass.

Of the seven stations eyed for Barrhaven LRT, three would be new (Tallwood, Knoxdale and Nepean Sportsplex) and four would be converted from existing bus stations (Fallowfield, Longfields, Strandherd and Barrhaven Centre).

The southern terminus at Barrhaven Town Centre would have a 250-space park-and-ride lot.

The study also aimed to segregate a future municipal rail system and roads from other rail lines, especially in light of the 2013 fatal collision between an OC Transpo double-decker bus and Via train at a level rail crossing near Woodroffe Avenue.

The preliminary plan calls for three new bridges over the Via tracks at Woodroffe Avenue, the southwest Transitway and at Fallowfield Road. The city could build overpasses over the Via line separate from the LRT project, the study has confirmed.

Construction could happen in two phases, with the first phase being the part between Algonquin College and Fallowfield Station.

The current transportation master plan doesn’t call for Barrhaven LRT until after 2031, but the city is in the middle of updating the document. What really drives the timelines is funding from the upper levels of government.

The public can provide feedback at ottawa.ca/BarrhavenLRT.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...cm/d279e3d8-4b48-4e38-9079-69f4b4fefe9f/

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

If they could be built to a similar scale as Iris, I'd say go for it. As for Orleans Blvd, I think that's overkill as well. I can't see it getting much passenger flow.

I assume they will be similar in nature to Iris station, no matter what the current render might show. https://ottawa.ca/en/planning-developmen...eration-line-west-extension#iris-station

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

That's very close to what I had in mind. I would get rid of Tallwood and shift Knoxdale north. Below is an example of how station buffers (500m) would

Its better then leaving the last station at Nepean sportsplex. The station at the Beachburg sub will now be 250+ metres (~4min walk) from any connection to the residential area other then to the south west.

However from my standpoint the only justification for the stations in that section is that they will be fed by local buses as the density does not have enough to feed it by walking/bicycles. So with that station spacing all buses feeding must detour down Woodroffe, at which point the locals (rightfully so) will ask for them to just continue to Algonquin station. So poof there goes the current justification. Nepean Sportsplex I would consider a destination in its own right.

I know most likely that this is exactly what OC transpo will do....but i'd rather not force it at the design level.

[adam-machiavelli]

The City would save a lot of space if it took out 2 lanes of that gargantuan Woodroffe Avenue corridor and put that train in their place. Whatever happened to converting car traffic to transit traffic?

[GradualFuture]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

First post....here at least....[Meta] the drowning of these threads by certain users was making it impossible to just read for info and then leave [Meta]

I'm sorry. I take responsibility to contributing to that mess, in part. It bothered me too much as well as someone who use to do exactly what you mention here. I apologize profusely. I want the forum to stay as high quality as thoughtful as it has been this whole time. Thank you for taking the time to mention your concern.

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

Also pains me to suggest this, 1 station at rail line with major bus transfer for the non-existent commuter rail system that keeps floating around.

I keep coming back to this too. It feels like a courtesy inclusion with extremely low utility. Someone earlier today did point out that it may be a natural fit for people in the Kanata Business Community to avoid travelling all the way across the city to the east Via Rail station... which seemed reasonable to me. Also, long term (like decades) some parts of the greenbelt around here could be filled with more Institutional space usage, perhaps.

[Truenorth00]

Are the soil problems mentioned why they couldn't just trench this beside Woodroffe?

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Are the soil problems mentioned why they couldn't just trench this beside Woodroffe?

Yes. Slide 13 here covers the whole explanation.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Yes. Slide 13 here covers the whole explanation.

Just went through the YouTube videos and the slide. Their reasoning makes sense.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

That's very close to what I had in mind. I would get rid of Tallwood and shift Knoxdale north.

Put it right on top of the CN Rail and design it for the possibility of a transfer station.

[MountainView]

Are they planning to have the O-train elevated above the CN Rail line? It's hard to tell from the drawing in the plans.