Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[SeymourDrake]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Or perhaps it's just time to abolish the parks board. I could get behind that, fold them into the city council just like everywhere else.

Yes

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by giallo

I'm so sorry for your loss.

We lost a really good friend almost two years ago to a tainted supply. He also wasn't a heavy user, but one night he ODed on fentanyl at the front door of his apartment in the Westend. He was an extremely talented musician, amazing father, and a caring and kind friend, but had fallen on some hard times due to bouts of severe depression. He made a mistake by doing some laced shit, and it cost him his life. It completely shocked our circle of friends. Absolutely destroyed my friend who was with him at the time. He's still a mess from it.

Thank you for sharing your story. It's very important that we humanize this situation. So much necessary effort has gone into dealing with COVID but the overdose epidemic is not given anywhere near the same level of care or concern. I would say this is most definitely linked to the fact that we stigmatize drug users and don't value their lives. Yes, the most severe and visible addicts we see on the street make it difficult to empathize, but they are only one part of the picture and underneath all of that trauma, both self-inflicted and otherwise, there is still a human being who would never have wanted to end up that way from a clearer state of mind.

[SpongeG]

I always thought it was a bad idea to try get people to move into the area. Something needs to be done, it soundslike nothing is ever done or will ever be done.

Residents of Gastown building moving out as they fear for their safety
Kenneth Chan | Sep 3 2020

A Vancouver landlord is sounding the alarm over the escalating situation at a market rental housing building located on the periphery of Gastown, right on the border with the Downtown Eastside.

In recent months, residents of Burns Block at 18 West Hastings Street have had to enter and exit their building through the laneway, as individuals who are homeless have blocked the main entrance and are harassing residents attempting to pass through.

There is open drug dealing at the main entrance, with people camping and even setting up their mattresses in the foyer inside. People have also been spitting on the speakerphone and defecating, and residents face swearing and threats of violence with needles.

“The tenants for the last several months have had to come and go through the alley as they can’t get in and out the front door, either physically or safely, because it’s congested with people standing in circles shooting up or dealing drugs. If you come out through there, they swear and threaten you,” said Stovell.

“Vancouver has been a very compassionate city for this unfortunate group of people, and we get that this was never a pristine neighbourhood. It always had some grit, but now it has become completely ridiculous,” said Stovell, adding that these conditions are now growing elsewhere in Gastown and in areas such as Yaletown, the West End, and Strathcona.

Stovell also expressed his frustration with the City of Vancouver and Vancouver Police’s responses.

They were initially told to call the 3-1-1 municipal hotline for a service request, and not 9-1-1. But most recently they were also told not to call 3-1-1.

and then there’s the current political realities with advocacy groups like Pivot Legal Society who think police shouldn’t even come to the area.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/burns-block-18-west-hastings-street-homeless-issues

[Metro-One]

Wow, its almost as if being compassionate to the homeless without any balancing enforcement of rules and order is a recipe for disaster!

Who would have thought?

Also for those who are championing less police involvement with the homeless and more "medical" workers, ironically the nurses and medical workers I personally know working in Vancouver are complaining about how dangerous their jobs have become with increasing frequency of physical attacks and the need for MORE security (aka, police).

Yes, medical attention is needed and many of these individuals need to be hospitalized and looked after, but completely dismissing law enforcement and the fact that many of these people are dangerous to themselves and others is only going to make things worse.

Vancouver needs to get its shit together. Compassion should not equate to allowing the homeless to do whatever they want wherever they want.

[Prometheus]

Some additional important comments from the Burns Block landlord:

Stovell went on to call the situation amounting to a “broken social contract” between the municipal government and the taxpaying residents and businesses of the city.

“We pay property tax so that people can walk over from the city’s public realm and into our private building. When the city allows social order on their property, outside of our property, to break down, they are breaching their contract with us as a property owner and a payer of property taxes,” he said.

“On the one hand, the city has disposition of being compassionate and a facilitator to this group of people, but they cannot do this at the expense of everything and anyone else, and still expect to collect property taxes and have people working and participating in the economy when they can’t even go safely in and out of their home.”

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/burns-block-18-west-hastings-street-homeless-issues

[s211]

The Pivot "Legal Society" is one of the worst offenders. They're effectively enablers of everything taking this city down.

I wonder how many union members are happy to see some their dues being shunted to the society.

[Vin]

Vancouver: a failing municipality.

Victoria is next.

In Canada, it's a Westcoast thing.

Victoria's Stupidity:
https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/victo...pers-back-at-centennial-square-1.5091889

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Vancouver: a failing municipality.

Victoria is next.

In Canada, it's a Westcoast thing.

Victoria's Stupidity:
https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/victo...pers-back-at-centennial-square-1.5091889

It's happening all over Canada

Toronto Montreal and Winnipeg (for example).

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by s211

The Pivot "Legal Society" is one of the worst offenders. They're effectively enablers of everything taking this city down.

I wonder how many union members are happy to see some their dues being shunted to the society.

How do you propose people who otherwise can't afford a lawyer on their own receive legal assistance?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by bluefox

How do you propose people who otherwise can't afford a lawyer on their own receive legal assistance?

Public defenders are a thing. I believe it's referred to as Legal Aid here in Canada. Regular lawyers take legal aid clients all the time.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by bluefox

How do you propose people who otherwise can't afford a lawyer on their own receive legal assistance?

It's funny but I have never needed legal assistance in my life. Then again, I don't break any laws and live by the societal rules.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Klazu

It's funny but I have never needed legal assistance in my life. Then again, I don't break any laws and live by the societal rules.

I hope you knocked on wood because it's a statement like that which invites Karma to show up on your doorstep . I hope that you never need a lawyer in the future (outside of legal aid for wills or RE lawyers).

[s211]

Originally Posted by bluefox

How do you propose people who otherwise can't afford a lawyer on their own receive legal assistance?

Legal aid https://lss.bc.ca and Pivot are two completely different things.

[casper]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Thank you for sharing your story. It's very important that we humanize this situation. So much necessary effort has gone into dealing with COVID but the overdose epidemic is not given anywhere near the same level of care or concern. I would say this is most definitely linked to the fact that we stigmatize drug users and don't value their lives. Yes, the most severe and visible addicts we see on the street make it difficult to empathize, but they are only one part of the picture and underneath all of that trauma, both self-inflicted and otherwise, there is still a human being who would never have wanted to end up that way from a clearer state of mind.

It is a different kind of problem. I don't think we can equate the two. One is a disease that is easily spread in the community without public education and globally applied precautions. The initial outbreak of AIDS was similar those not as easily spread.

The drug problem is different and needs a different strategy. Why do people end up on drugs? What can we do a society to avoid that in the first place? Clearly the idea of people self medicating using illegal drugs is a problem. I think we need a two pronged approach. Go after the people making and selling thing stuff hard. That is a clear job for the police. At the same time we need to ensure the medical system has the resources to get these people into a treatment protocol that either addresses the underlying medical or is a path to slowly get them off this stuff.

That should be a completely separate issue from homelessness.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's happening all over Canada

Toronto Montreal and Winnipeg (for example).

Hardly the same. I don't know if you notice, but there are less homeless person per capita in those cities, and homeless people generally look healtheir than those in Vancouver and Victoria: many are wasted from years of drug and alcohol abuses. So, yeah googling for a few cases is hardly convincing. It is a well known fact that we are the worst, so no more sugarcoating ok?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by casper

It is a different kind of problem. I don't think we can equate the two. One is a disease that is easily spread in the community without public education and globally applied precautions. The initial outbreak of AIDS was similar those not as easily spread.

The drug problem is different and needs a different strategy. Why do people end up on drugs? What can we do a society to avoid that in the first place? Clearly the idea of people self medicating using illegal drugs is a problem. I think we need a two pronged approach. Go after the people making and selling thing stuff hard. That is a clear job for the police. At the same time we need to ensure the medical system has the resources to get these people into a treatment protocol that either addresses the underlying medical or is a path to slowly get them off this stuff.

That should be a completely separate issue from homelessness.

Right on.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hardly the same. I don't know if you notice, but there are less homeless person per capita in those cities, and homeless people generally look healtheir than those in Vancouver and Victoria: many are wasted from years of drug and alcohol abuses. So, yeah googling for a few cases is hardly convincing. It is a well known fact that we are the worst, so no more sugarcoating ok?

I completely agree. We need more housing, health services and support for Vancouver and Victoria's homeless population. So do the other Canadian cities facing an increasing number of homeless people. You obviously spend way more time than I do looking at homeless people to know where they look healthier. I'd be surprised if any city's homeless population were very different from each other.

[SpongeG]

There is an old guy who hangs out on Davie street, many west end residents know him or of him. He smells really really bad, like you can smell him from a good distance away. If you ever get to see him sitting around you can see his legs and feet are practically rotting, its pretty gross and pretty sad. He doesn't seem to want to seek any help. Hes probably not as old as he looks but he doesn't seem to want help from anyone, he needs some kind of intervention and medical and mental health help. People should not be allowed to just literally rot away on the streets.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I completely agree. We need more housing, health services and support for Vancouver and Victoria's homeless population. So do the other Canadian cities facing an increasing number of homeless people. You obviously spend way more time than I do looking at homeless people to know where they look healthier. I'd be surprised if any city's homeless population were very different from each other.

Not certain "more" is the best answer. Perhaps we need to look at what is there and figure out how to make it work better. The problem is getting worse and its not clear why.

Our Place is the key government funded non-profit that does this kind of work in Victoria. They are a $12.4 M a year operation. I suspect Vancouver has several non-profits contracted by the government to service the local community that are an order magnitude bigger. Here is their annual report:
https://www.ourplacesociety.com/sites/default/files/op_community_report_2020_web_0.pdf

What is sad about the Our Place annual report is the program they run that gets people jobs so they are on a path to self-sufficiency had an intake of 125, accepted 106 and only 54% moved into employment. They generated 41 detox referrals. They don't publish the number of clients they have, but state they average 1,280 meals a day.

Not trying to put down their program, feeding people, getting them showers, a washroom to use, a safe place to sleep or store belonging is all good stuff that helps people in need. They are providing vital services to a community that is in desperate need.

However, there is a fundamental problem if they are not acting as a pipeline into other programs that will eventually graduate people into having jobs and being able to have stable living conditions.

[logan5]

That fits the description of a person I walked by at around 7 last night, passed out at the bus stop at Davie and Denman.