West Gatineau Tramway & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[caboose]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

If the Sparks tunnel gets built, I wonder if it would be possible to eventually extend Trillium line eastward to interline with the Gatineau LRT in the downtown core.

It is possible, as long as the bridge decision isn't final.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by corynv

I'd highly doubt that, you'd either need to build the downtown stations with multiple platforms (low ones for STO high ones for Trillium), buy trains with multi-level doors (i'd imagine this wouldn't go to well with accessibility requirements) or completely rebuild the trillium line to go low-floor.

Ya, I should've clarified that it would certainly necessitate a switch to low-floor rolling stock on T-line. It's kind of too bad they didn't consider doing that as part of the current Stage 2 plans.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Trams on Wellington would be nice, but would be interrupted by all the protests, parades and ambassador motorcades. Underground means more reliability, also shelter from the elements.

So let's focus on the subway tunnel instead of this tram talk!

Love your avatar by the way!

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

It is possible, as long as the bridge decision isn't final.

That would be exciting!

[caboose]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

That would be exciting!

As a Gatineau resident, I would insist that this connection doesn't happen until the Trillium Line is at least partially electrified. It wouldn't be ok running diesel trains in our city, especially behind residential neighbourhoods nearby to the alignment.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

As a Gatineau resident, I would insist that this connection doesn't happen until the Trillium Line is at least partially electrified. It wouldn't be ok running diesel trains in our city, especially behind residential neighbourhoods nearby to the alignment.

I agree - big oil has had its way too long. We need it double track and electric

[caboose]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

I agree - big oil has had its way too long. We need it double track and electric

Diesel is worse that gasoline. On a recent trip to London, I had asthma attacks because of all the diesel cars. Keep that crap out of my city please!

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Ya, I should've clarified that it would certainly necessitate a switch to low-floor rolling stock on T-line. It's kind of too bad they didn't consider doing that as part of the current Stage 2 plans.

Why would they have done that?

There's never been any plan to interline. So it's extra capital costs for no justifiable reason.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

I don't mind the Sparks Street tunnel to be honest.

If they do a very shallow cut and cover, this will constrain the STO tunnel to stay in centretown since it can't cross the canal, which is a good thing. This provides an opportunity down the road for the STO tunnel to eventually extend either south at Bank street (if it can negotiate a sharp turn there) into something that resembles this forum's beloved Bank Street Subway or it could be extended across Sparks to Elgin and then south for pretty much as far as the imagination can take you. City Hall? Pretoria Bridge? Lansdowne? Carling O-train station via Queen Elizabeth Drive?

Since the Confederation Line and Trilium Line are more suburban oriented, I find it ironic that one of the best chances we may get at good, high-quality urban transportation in Ottawa might come about because of STO.

The STO's Sparks tunnel will never become part of the Bank Subway for several reasons:

Jurisdictional reasons: the STO would never build and operate a subway under Bank Street. Their #1 goal is to serve the residents of Gatienau.

Capacity: the STO tram is a, well, tram for most of its route in Gatineau. That means limited length of trains, and limited capacity, which would make tunneling beyond and using the rolling stock as a tradition subway would make little sense. The best we can hope for is a loop back to Gatineau using the Alexandra Bridge.

Logistics: with the Gatineau tram tunnel being under Sparks, the tunnel would have to turn nearly 90 degrees, pass under several deep foundation buildings and over the Confederation Line. It would be extremely expensive to somehow build a new tunnel between office building parking garages and the Confederation Line (if there's even enough space).

Originally Posted by The Conductor

So let's focus on the subway tunnel instead of this tram talk!

Love your avatar by the way!

This is the West Gatineau LRT Project. The West Gatineau LRT is a tram.

Please take the fantasy Bank Street Subway discussion to the Fantasy Bank Street Subway thread.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Why would they have done that?

There's never been any plan to interline. So it's extra capital costs for video justifiable reason.

There's no plan, but they've definitely left protections to ensure that it's possible should they ever go ahead with that terrible idea.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

There's no plan, but they've definitely left protections to ensure that it's possible should they ever go ahead with that terrible idea.

Protections don't cost much. Just planning.

Tearing down and rebuilding platforms on the other hand. That has a cost.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The STO's Sparks tunnel will never become part of the Bank Subway for several reasons:

Capacity: the STO tram is a, well, tram for most of its route in Gatineau. That means limited length of trains, and limited capacity, which would make tunneling beyond and using the rolling stock as a tradition subway would make little sense. The best we can hope for is a loop back to Gatineau using the Alexandra Bridge.

Logistics: with the Gatineau tram tunnel being under Sparks, the tunnel would have to turn nearly 90 degrees, pass under several deep foundation buildings and over the Confederation Line. It would be extremely expensive to somehow build a new tunnel between office building parking garages and the Confederation Line (if there's even enough space).

Agreed, they are two separate projects. One is proposed, one is fantasy. And a turn of 90 degrees is not feasible. I don't think the loop back will ever happen. I think that there is no chance that any tunnelling beyond the end of Sparks Street will ever be feasible or even accepted by Ottawa. I'm still really surprised that Ottawa is accepting any kind of tunnelling or on street streetcars from Gatineau.

I would argue that the feds should cover the parts in downtown Ottawa and downtown Gatineau. Interprovincial traffic goes both ways.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by caboose

Agreed, they are two separate projects. One is proposed, one is fantasy. And a turn of 90 degrees is not feasible. I don't think the loop back will ever happen. I think that there is no chance that any tunnelling beyond the end of Sparks Street will ever be feasible or even accepted by Ottawa. I'm still really surprised that Ottawa is accepting any kind of tunnelling or on street streetcars from Gatineau.

I would argue that the feds should cover the parts in downtown Ottawa and downtown Gatineau. Interprovincial traffic goes both ways.

The only way they could loop the line with the tunnel option would be to use the Château Laurier tunnel (which would mean demolishing the Committee Rooms) and go down the former railway RoW at the base of Major's Hill Park. Since this is all Federal and NCC land, the City would have little say. Gatineau would need to plan and build its tunnel with this possibility in mind though, which is essential to expand future capacity.

I agree that the Feds need to step-up with funding. I don't see the Province of Québec or the City of Gatineau investing a single cent into a tunnel on the Ottawa side, nor do I see the City of Ottawa investing a single cent in the project. The Feds will have to fund 100% of the Ottawa portion of this project, which is fair as they are responsible for interprovincial mobility.

At the moment, Gatineau is hoping for a 40/60 funding formula (Feds/Province) for their tramway. Only the province committed to the 60%.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I agree that the Feds need to step-up with funding. I don't see the Province of Québec or the City of Gatineau investing a single cent into a tunnel on the Ottawa side, nor do I see the City of Ottawa investing a single cent in the project. The Feds will have to fund 100% of the Ottawa portion of this project, which is fair as they are responsible for interprovincial mobility.

At the moment, Gatineau is hoping for a 40/60 funding formula (Feds/Province) for their tramway. Only the province committed to the 60%.

As a Gatineau taxpayer, I'd rather Gatineau and the province spend zero on any part outside of Quebec. The main employer for interprovincial transit is the federal government, they need to pay for it.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by caboose

As a Gatineau taxpayer, I'd rather Gatineau and the province spend zero on any part outside of Quebec. The main employer for interprovincial transit is the federal government, they need to pay for it.

Agreed.

[caboose]

I don't think the crossing will ever happen either. There's an underlying hostility in Ottawa to Gatineau, that has stopped any new bridge or transit project dating back 40 years. No Deschenes Rapids Bridge. No to a third lane on Champlain Bridge. Reducing SJAM parkway to two lanes. No Kettle Island Crossing. Complaining about trucks on King Edward. Bayview Station doesn't have the capacity for Gatineau transfers. I think it's all rooted in the language divide in this country, and I don't think even the niceties of holding joint transit zoom meetings will change that...

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

I don't think the crossing will ever happen either. There's an underlying hostility in Ottawa to Gatineau, that has stopped any new bridge or transit project dating back 40 years. No Deschenes Rapids Bridge. No to a third lane on Champlain Bridge. Reducing SJAM parkway to two lanes. No Kettle Island Crossing. Complaining about trucks on King Edward. Bayview Station doesn't have the capacity for Gatineau transfers. I think it's all rooted in the language divide in this country, and I don't think even the niceties of holding joint transit zoom meetings will change that...

A number of years ago there was serious discussion of an Aylmer to Kanata bridge crossing which I still fully support!

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

At the moment, Gatineau is hoping for a 40/60 funding formula (Feds/Province) for their tramway. Only the province committed to the 60%.

Gatineau doesn't want to contribute anything?

Ballsy.

My hopes for this project just went down.

[GradualFuture]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

A number of years ago there was serious discussion of an Aylmer to Kanata bridge crossing which I still fully support!

Unfortunately, the Aylmer Kanata bridge crossing is outside of any official plans outlined in the proposed Gatineau West LRT that is discussed here, and therefore would be Fantasy and should be ignored as outlined by those in charge of make believe city planning on this forum.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by GradualFuture

Unfortunately, the Aylmer Kanata bridge crossing is outside of any official plans outlined in the proposed Gatineau West LRT that is discussed here, and therefore would be Fantasy and should be ignored as outlined by those in charge of make believe city planning on this forum.

There's an interprovincial bridge thread here: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8970829