Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[SLCLvr]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Thanks. I watched this, and was just amazed at how the public just hijacked this meeting. Only two people actually commented on the items on the agenda. It was all protesters objecting to some of the methods that the city is using to police the protesting... .

I was really unwatchable. I don't know why they have all the comments together. There's no way to skip over the recording to the part you're interested in. And if you say you're there to comment on multiple issues you can go on for ten minutes. The council needs to get control of this and have the comments section by section and move the "i just want to emphasize what the last 20 people said on an issue the council has no control over" comments to the end like when they had physical meetings.

[Schmoe]

Originally Posted by meman

The Carls jr at 2nd South and Main has closed permenently.

I wonder if this is a precursor to the construction of the Kensington apartments

or if this is just another Covid casualty?

I hear it was a lease dispute having to do with terms of an extension after the project got delayed. Carl's Jr. decided to leave early. But that's unconfirmed.

Originally Posted by meman

I thought Kensington was not supposed to start construction until Summer 2021. Has it been moved up?

Still the plan from what I've heard. Has not been moved up.

Originally Posted by meman

Does anyone out there know?

Surely someone does, but you'll have to settle for me until a better source emerges.

[Atlas]

The old south endzone complex at Rice-Eccles has been demolished

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by SLCLvr

I was really unwatchable. I don't know why they have all the comments together. There's no way to skip over the recording to the part you're interested in. And if you say you're there to comment on multiple issues you can go on for ten minutes. The council needs to get control of this and have the comments section by section and move the "i just want to emphasize what the last 20 people said on an issue the council has no control over" comments to the end like when they had physical meetings.

Agreed. I'm going to send a complaint.

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Agreed. I'm going to send a complaint.

In my opinion, the city is mired in incompetency. (Planning commission, mayor, and council) Nothing has changed.

Progressive politicians pandering to their extremist fringe base
does not encourage sensible policy.

I would prefer a middle of the road approach politically along with professionals with creds for the Redevelopment agency and planning commission.

It's a pipe dream, sure. I get it.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by Ironweed

In my opinion, the city is mired in incompetency. (Planning commission, mayor, and council) Nothing has changed.

Progressive politicians pandering to their extremist fringe base
does not encourage sensible policy.

I would prefer a middle of the road approach politically along with professionals with creds for the Redevelopment agency and planning commission.

It's a pipe dream, sure. I get it.

I couldn't agree more. They voted out Becker -- who was even a solid democrat -- for absolutely no reason even though he could really deliver the goods (i say that as someone who actively worked for his main challenger in 2007). They wink and nod to extremism by providing the mobs with platforms in city meetings. They have been generally afraid to fix homeless issues or do so kicking and screaming.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by mattreedah

he could really deliver the goods (i say that as someone who actively worked for his main challenger in 2007). They wink and nod to extremism by providing the mobs with platforms in city meetings. They have been generally afraid to fix homeless issues or do so kicking and screaming.

lol let's not push revisionist history here.

Becker was a mediocre mayor whose accomplishments in two terms are so little that he was rightfully booted out of office. Salt Lake hasn't had a decent mayor since Rocky Anderson. Becker ranks among the worst - from his handling of the homeless shelter debacles to his extreme ignorance on policing. His time in office was a near-disaster only masked by his affable attitude. As average as Jackie was as mayor, at least she had the foresight to realize a second term would not be best for the city. Becker's humongous ego pushed him to run for a ridiculous third-term after failing the city in his second term and we're still trying to recover from it.

At least Rocky was bold in his vision about what he wanted to make downtown - and the foundation he laid is absolutely having a positive impact on the city today (steering business to Main Street, which really ushered in a period of significant development through the initial RDA loans, pushing for walkable, urban development on 400 South by forcing zoning changes in the early 00s and, of course, being an advocate for changing Utah's awful liquor laws). I'd take that approach over the milquetoast Becker-Jackie-Erin administrations.

It's not liberal progressives who are holding the city back - it's mayors who are too afraid to shake things up. Jackie was likely the best opportunity of this but she just didn't have the muster to shake it up successfully, though, I give her credit for trying. Erin might as well be the mayor of South Salt Lake or Murray with how she's running things. My biggest regret, vote wise, was supporting her campaign last November.

[delts145]

Looking forward to the appearance of 95 S. State and Liberty Sky in this pic.


https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uplo...SLC-1-copy.jpg

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Since my last post was the last comment on the last page, I wanted to repost this on the new page so that it wasn't missed. I'm curious what you forumers think of the meeting. Here's my post:



Thanks. I watched this, and was just amazed at how the public just hijacked this meeting. Only two people actually commented on the items on the agenda. It was all protesters objecting to some of the methods that the city is using to police the protesting. There were also a few comments objecting to a proposed development in Rose Park, called the Elliott? development due to concerns of gentrification. It was opposed by a group called the Rose Park Brown Berrets. Out of the two people that commented about the height increase at the Gateway, one was from the development party, and the other person said that height increase should only be allowed if the developer provides affordable housing or pays a fee for affordable housing to be used by the city. The Council wisely deferred judgement to September 15th on the height increase to allow for another chance for more people to speak about this issue.

Have any of you heard of the Rose Park Brown Berrets or the Elliott Development?

[stayinginformed]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Have any of you heard of the Rose Park Brown Berrets or the Elliott Development?

The Elliott is a CW Urban development on 700 West between 300 and 400 North. There are 2-3 half block wide lots next to each other that have been vacant for years--there were some houses there maybe 8-10 years ago, but they burned down by squatters living in them.

The Brown Berets have taken on this development as a sign of gentrification--as the townhomes will be in the 400k range. They have been attending community council meetings on the west side for the past couple years, at the beginning it was mainly about police brutality, but it looks like they have expanded into housing policy.

I am personally in favor of the development of this property with townhomes that will be owner occupied. The gentrification of the neighborhood is happening whether or not this development gets built. Over the past 10 years, housing prices in west side neighborhoods have gone up by more than 150%.

[Utah_Dave]

Originally Posted by Comrade

lol let's not push revisionist history here.

Becker was a mediocre mayor whose accomplishments in two terms are so little that he was rightfully booted out of office. Salt Lake hasn't had a decent mayor since Rocky Anderson. Becker ranks among the worst - from his handling of the homeless shelter debacles to his extreme ignorance on policing. His time in office was a near-disaster only masked by his affable attitude. As average as Jackie was as mayor, at least she had the foresight to realize a second term would not be best for the city. Becker's humongous ego pushed him to run for a ridiculous third-term after failing the city in his second term and we're still trying to recover from it.

At least Rocky was bold in his vision about what he wanted to make downtown - and the foundation he laid is absolutely having a positive impact on the city today (steering business to Main Street, which really ushered in a period of significant development through the initial RDA loans, pushing for walkable, urban development on 400 South by forcing zoning changes in the early 00s and, of course, being an advocate for changing Utah's awful liquor laws). I'd take that approach over the milquetoast Becker-Jackie-Erin administrations.

It's not liberal progressives who are holding the city back - it's mayors who are too afraid to shake things up. Jackie was likely the best opportunity of this but she just didn't have the muster to shake it up successfully, though, I give her credit for trying. Erin might as well be the mayor of South Salt Lake or Murray with how she's running things. My biggest regret, vote wise, was supporting her campaign last November.

I wasn’t into politics or policy back in the day but I thought it was pretty cool when I met mayor Rocky Anderson at the Manhattan club years ago of all places. I was anticipating a “stiff“ mayor but he was happy to be part of the night life scene which was a little shocking to me at the time. That’s about the extent of my Rocky Anderson policy knowledge but it’s good enough for me.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by stayinginformed

Over the past 10 years, housing prices in west side neighborhoods have gone up by more than 150%.

I like the Elliot as well but I wanted to comment on this part.

I bought my house in Rose Park in 2016, roughly 4 years ago. My house has increase in value by nearly 175% in just the last 4 years. My neighbor, their house has doubled in value since they bought 10 years ago. This just shows that the increase has been in the last few years.

I will say that I am looking forward to the changes coming to the area, 15 minute bus service on 6th North, 9th West and 12th West. There will also be work done to enhance 6th North to make it safer and slow traffic down. Additionally, There is also work planned for 10th West between North Temple and 6th North. These are all slated to happen over the next few years.

[FullCircle]

Sorry to be a stickler for mathematical accuracy, but a 100% increase in value is a doubling of value. So, in order for your house value to have gone up by 175% in the last 4 years, It would have had to have gone from say $300K to $825k. Values have shot up like crazy, but not by that much. I guess you mean your home is worth 175% (an increase of 75%) of what it was 4 years ago ($300k would increase to $535K). I am in south Sugarhouse area, and bought mine 4 years ago for $350K and it's estimated worth now is around $500K, which means it's value is 143% of what it was 4 years ago, an increase of 43% in value. I do believe that different areas of the city have appreciated at different rates, and ridiculous rates to be sure, and Rose Park may be the most ridiculous of them all (a quick look on Zillow supports this). Sorry if this is super obnoxious, not sure why felt the need to write this paragraph. All covid and riots make Jack a dull boy, I guess.

But the positive is that anyone who bought a home at least a couple years ago now has all sorts of equity in their homes, so that's a good thing. Of course, it's a bad thing for people who don't own and want to buy in the area, because now home values are out of reach of a lot of people.
But... building more homes (increasing supply) will result in lower prices, so, what exactly are the brown berets complaining about in regards to this new development? They may have some legit concerns, but I'd like to know what they are. I don't want to jump to conclusions, because I wasn't at the meeting and this is the first I'm hearing of the brown berets, but I think a lot of people who complain about gentrification are not being entirely honest in their motives (with the exception of people on fixed incomes, retirees, etc. who are trying to live out their remaining days in their home of many years and now can't afford the increasing taxes).

[Always Sunny in SLC]

I am very pro gentrification if done right. Gentrification can create a much more financially viable and sustainable neighborhood. Neighborhoods that have a diverse mixed of incomes allow for more money in local government budgets. When lower income folks own their home they live in they profit nicely if the choose to sell out.

[berger4]

And the point is also the less housing built the greater demand for housing as well, so prices will rise even more so with less supply of housing being built.

[Rileybo]

The parts of town that need revamping never get it, and the irreplaceable urban fabric of our city will keep being destroyed for short stubby cheapy crap.


Thats the reality we are living in. Hopefully tomorrow can be better.

[bob rulz]

People who fight a new condo development as a sign of gentrification - especially when those condos are going in on a lot that's been vacant for years as seems to be the case with this one - are fighting the wrong battles. Gentrification is a real issue, but those condos going in on the vacant lot next door are not the cause of it.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Comrade

lol let's not push revisionist history here.

Becker was a mediocre mayor whose accomplishments in two terms are so little that he was rightfully booted out of office. Salt Lake hasn't had a decent mayor since Rocky Anderson. Becker ranks among the worst - from his handling of the homeless shelter debacles to his extreme ignorance on policing. His time in office was a near-disaster only masked by his affable attitude. As average as Jackie was as mayor, at least she had the foresight to realize a second term would not be best for the city. Becker's humongous ego pushed him to run for a ridiculous third-term after failing the city in his second term and we're still trying to recover from it.

At least Rocky was bold in his vision about what he wanted to make downtown - and the foundation he laid is absolutely having a positive impact on the city today (steering business to Main Street, which really ushered in a period of significant development through the initial RDA loans, pushing for walkable, urban development on 400 South by forcing zoning changes in the early 00s and, of course, being an advocate for changing Utah's awful liquor laws). I'd take that approach over the milquetoast Becker-Jackie-Erin administrations.

It's not liberal progressives who are holding the city back - it's mayors who are too afraid to shake things up. Jackie was likely the best opportunity of this but she just didn't have the muster to shake it up successfully, though, I give her credit for trying. Erin might as well be the mayor of South Salt Lake or Murray with how she's running things. My biggest regret, vote wise, was supporting her campaign last November.

Erin has had to deal with a pandemic and daily protests, even the occasional riot, and an earthquake on top of that. City finances are in the process of being crippled by decreasing tax revenues. I don't really know what you expected Erin Mendenhall to do by now - it's not even a year into her administration, and it's probably the worst year I can imagine getting such a position. She says things that makes me think that she does have a lot of good ideas, but realistically has she really had the chance to implement these ideas with such immediate and pressing concerns on the plate?

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

I am very pro gentrification if done right. Gentrification can create a much more financially viable and sustainable neighborhood. Neighborhoods that have a diverse mixed of incomes allow for more money in local government budgets. When lower income folks own their home they live in they profit nicely if the choose to sell out.

Rose Park, believe it or not, has historically been an area of the city that did things right - a mix of incomes and families.

This is why it's maddening to listen to our racist president talk about keeping low-income people out of the suburbs. What an insulting, nasty mindset to have and openly push.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Rose Park, believe it or not, has historically been an area of the city that did things right - a mix of incomes and families.

This is why it's maddening to listen to our racist president talk about keeping low-income people out of the suburbs. What an insulting, nasty mindset to have and openly push.

You bring up a good point. Historically I think that was more true than now, but admittedly I left Rosepark (technically Fairpark) in the 90’s so I don’t know how diverse it is economically these days. I grew up between 5th and 6th North and about 1350 West. It was a fairly diverse neighborhood along many different metrics and I loved how small retail had embedded in many parts such as 5th North and Oakley, 6th North and 12th West, 1000 North and 14th West and 1000 North 9th West. We didn’t have to travel far to some giant retail complex to do our shopping. We would ride our bikes to rent a movie, get a drink etc. There was a shop called Earls on the corner of 5th North and Oakley (now La Tiendita) where we hung out a lot. Growing up there deeply impacted how I see the ideal city being laid out.