PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[Orion1]

Are we going to lose our distinction of being the only city where all four of its sports franchises play within blocks of one another?

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by Orion1

Are we going to lose our distinction of being the only city where all four of its sports franchises play within blocks of one another?

And this distinction is important how? The only one of note that I can think of is that the acres of surface parking lots can be used more often. Outside of that, it seems like its something that looks good on paper and plans but for the ticket buying public does it matter?

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Orion1

Are we going to lose our distinction of being the only city where all four of its sports franchises play within blocks of one another?

Originally Posted by City Wide

And this distinction is important how? The only one of note that I can think of is that the acres of surface parking lots can be used more often. Outside of that, it seems like its something that looks good on paper and plans but for the ticket buying public does it matter?

The distinction is important only for its worst effect — the expressways and Broad St tied in knots with arbitrary closings of ramps when two or more of the venues have simultaneous events. This never much amuses my co-workers trying to drive to or from the Navy Yard during such occurrences.

[Vince_]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

The distinction is important only for its worst effect — the expressways and Broad St tied in knots with arbitrary closings of ramps when two or more of the venues have simultaneous events. This never much amuses my co-workers trying to drive to or from the Navy Yard during such occurrences.

Arbitrary closings is right. I've been to countless events and down there and I'm never ceased at how random the police traffic control is. Sometimes Darian is closed, sometimes Citizens Bank Way is closed, sometimes 11th is closed. Not to mention the chaos at NRG Station leaving an Eagles game. Since there's no real time tracking, people run to the trains on the platform because you never know if it's express or local and when it's going to leave.

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by Orion1

Are we going to lose our distinction of being the only city where all four of its sports franchises play within blocks of one another?

[JohnIII]

I'm all for skyscrapers along the Delaware River Waterfront; so the Mid-Level buildings and the High-rise buildings whether apartments or condos is great but the Sixers arena there could cause problems like parking. With all of the buildings going up in the area; with varying degrees of height we can be sure that parking will be needed and the parking will have to be above ground due to cost and location more than likely; so any parking could be included into the buildings height or in a separate garage structure. However when we are talking about a Sixers arena; that is a lot of extra parking that will be needed as well as entrance and exit access to I-95 with much more confined space to work with. An expanded Mass Transit Line may ease the problem somewhat but only minimally.

[phillyskyscraperbro9]

While I agree that basketball is fun, I'm sure that others may think differently. I'm sure we can all agree that any new construction along our Waterfront will help out our construction companies during these COVID times.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by City Wide

And this distinction is important how? The only one of note that I can think of is that the acres of surface parking lots can be used more often. Outside of that, it seems like its something that looks good on paper and plans but for the ticket buying public does it matter?

Is it the biggest value in the world? No, but if we're going to have asphalt lots for tailgating (which does matter to fans), then it's better to have fewer and have them utilized more efficiently. It's like a medical complex, but sports!

Also, when games overlap (granted, that's rare), it's a HUGE deal to fans. I'll never forget the Phillies-Yankees World Series game being the nightcap to an Eagles-Giants game. Basketball doesn't usually factor in as much, but it happens and it creates a heightened experience.

Finally, if you're one of those people who cares about what outsiders think when they see the skyline, or drive in from the airport, I think you should really also value that we have the 4 major sports right there. I can't count how many visitors I've taken to a game - from as close as NYC to as far as Phoenix - and seen them blown away by the fact that the stadiums are all RIGHT there. I've explained it in advance and repeatedly seen their surprised awe (maybe somewhat overstated, but they're impressed) and then, after a few minutes, confusion as to why every city isn't set up like that upon arriving.

It's good design and makes us look smart, case in point: https://www.theonion.com/city-planner-gets-halfway-through-designing-city-before-1819576357

[Larry King]

Sorry that argument is so dumb. There's nothing down there but xfinity live, the atmosphere is awful. If there's a double header, the complex will be a 10 minute uber ride away.

[Frontst17]

It’s not dumb at all. Groundhog is exactly right. Having all 4 sports there is a huge draw in an accessible spot for suburban fans. Including the thousands of fans who use regional rail. Half the parking isn’t even used plenty of room to improve

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

It’s not dumb at all. Groundhog is exactly right. Having all 4 sports there is a huge draw in an accessible spot for suburban fans. Including the thousands of fans who use regional rail. Half the parking isn’t even used plenty of room to improve

Except regional rail doesn't go anywhere near the sports complex. It is a 20 minute walk for the Penns Landing Site, slightly less for Patco when the Franklin Square station opens.

[ScreamShatter]

Personally, not for or against a new stadium on Del Ave. But I am against public funds being used to build it without the city owning it and profiting off it.

[PhillyRising]

A Sixers arena on Penn's Landing is the dumbest idea ever.

There isn't any type of rail lines for anyone to get there.

Where is everyone going to park?

I suspect this is a ruse to get a better lease deal out of Comcast for the Wells Fargo Center. I mean Comcast is spending a few hundred million to renovate the entire arena which I believe is either done or will be done soon. So why do the Sixers need a new arena? When they suck nobody goes. The Sixers have the worst loyal following of all four teams when times are bad.Will events go to the new arena and not South Philly. It just seems like redundancy and a waste of prime waterfront space.

And....they can't even move for another 12 years anyway. So...again...this is a billionaires ruse...and I also suspect he might want to buy the Wells Fargo Center off of Comast after they get done remodeling it. He owns the white elephant of arena in Newark that is half empty for Devils games. He can't move the Sixers to Newark...the Knicks and Nets would fight a third team in the region and the NBA is not going to let Philadelphia go without a team.

So again...what is the ruse for all of it. There is some sort of end game they aren't saying. The city should nix any arena on the Delaware.

Going to Camden won't help the Sixers either. Nobody will go there either for a Sixers game. Sports fans here are conditioned to go to the Sports Complex because having all the teams in South Philly has worked for the last 49 years when the Phillies and Eagles joined the Sixers and Flyers down there in 1971. They extended the Broad Street Subway for that very reason. Logistically it works for everyone. People can take regional rail to the city and transfer to the subway for games. City residents take the subway. That leaved the tail gaters and those who want to driver for the lots and it's located where everyone get moving home without clogging up the rest of the city.

Josh Harris sees Comcast building Xfinity Live and he's not getting a cut. The new casino is rising and he's not in on that. He wants something of his own so he can get more money on basketball nights. The Sixers are the only team that isn't the main tenant of a venue. Techinically with Comcast owning the Flyers..they are the main tenant.

Me think this is to scare Comcast to get with Josh Harris to get him involved but I wish Josh Harris would just sell the Sixers and go back to New York....

[Larry King]

Sure, besides the el, patco and every septa regional rail line- there’s absolutely no rail line in the area. No idea how anyone will ever get to center city. And it’s not like anyone lives there or anyone walks in the city.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Sure, besides the el, patco and every septa regional rail line- there’s absolutely no rail line in the area. No idea how anyone will ever get to center city. And it’s not like anyone lives there or anyone walks in the city.

Suburban sports fans are not going to walk from 10th and Market to Penn's Landing if they take Regional Rail. The Market Frankford Line is a few blocks away from the proposed site that would have to serve the sports crowds like the Broad Street Subway does. How big is that station at 2nd and Market compared to the "NRG Station" in South Philly. I've never been in that one. The South Philly station was built to handle stadium crowds and even during Eagles games this stations clog up and nobody moves quickly. Is SEPTA going to expand the station? Is Josh Harris going to expand it for SEPTA? The only way this all works is if that 2nd and Market station is expanded and has far more access to it for various points.

Again...this is a ruse. The Sixers can't leave South Philly until 2032. There is a lot of development potential still to be made in the Sports Complex and I suspect he wants in on it but is using this a negotiation tactic.

Anyway..Just sell Josh...u messed up the process and your heart is still 90 miles north. You aren't really a Philly guy.

[PhillyDreamsReturns]

It’s not a ruse at all—they are building an arena, whether it’s at the waterfront or Mars. Sixers are an exception for an NBA franchise NOT to own their own building. Usually it’s the NHL team that rents. Franchise value skyrockets for owning their own house, and own it they will. I’m actually optimistic about the arena in general, I don’t expect it to be Wells Fargo 2.0, I think it’s an opportunity to redefine what a basketball arena experience can and should be. Look at what they did with the Fusion arena, that is innovative.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by PhillyDreamsReturns

It’s not a ruse at all—they are building an arena, whether it’s at the waterfront or Mars. Sixers are an exception for an NBA franchise NOT to own their own building. Usually it’s the NHL team that rents. Franchise value skyrockets for owning their own house, and own it they will. I’m actually optimistic about the arena in general, I don’t expect it to be Wells Fargo 2.0, I think it’s an opportunity to redefine what a basketball arena experience can and should be. Look at what they did with the Fusion arena, that is innovative.

Which is why I think he gets his arena in South Philly. I never thought the Spectrum should be torn down and then nothing was built on it's foot print. The Xfinity Live was smaller than originally planned They could easily put another arena down there where the Spectrum stood and build around it. Having a gem of a park on the Delaware didn't save minor league baseball in Camden. I think building where the Spectrum stood...would be better for the team and the fans. I'm not sure Penn's Landing really benefits anyone. They should just sell Josh some land in the Complex and let him have at it....two indoor arenas down there with all the parking and subway connections just seems more practical.

Plus the city has to ok it for Penns Landing and I just don't see it happening.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

Which is why I think he gets his arena in South Philly. I never thought the Spectrum should be torn down and then nothing was built on it's foot print. The Xfinity Live was smaller than originally planned They could easily put another arena down there where the Spectrum stood and build around it. Having a gem of a park on the Delaware didn't save minor league baseball in Camden. I think building where the Spectrum stood...would be better for the team and the fans. I'm not sure Penn's Landing really benefits anyone. They should just sell Josh some land in the Complex and let him have at it....two indoor arenas down there with all the parking and subway connections just seems more practical.

Plus the city has to ok it for Penns Landing and I just don't see it happening.

Remember this is the same city that Ok's half the bullshit thrown at it, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

The arena in the plan shown above in the Pic could work, however they could add a trolley line or extend the subway to Delaware Ave, as you see they are willing to extend the south st bridge, so all thats in the way is money.

it could work, but they really need to upgrade infrastructure, people seem to forget you need to have traffic disperse in a good way and not just gridlock for 1 hour. imagine 10,000 people leaving that arena on a Friday night, it will destroy that part of the city.

[DudeGuy]

Sixers stadium should be built at 8th and Market. There should be a connection to the Concourse/lower level of the Gallery. Let's will it into existence!

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by PhillyDreamsReturns

It’s not a ruse at all—they are building an arena, whether it’s at the waterfront or Mars. Sixers are an exception for an NBA franchise NOT to own their own building. Usually it’s the NHL team that rents. Franchise value skyrockets for owning their own house, and own it they will. I’m actually optimistic about the arena in general, I don’t expect it to be Wells Fargo 2.0, I think it’s an opportunity to redefine what a basketball arena experience can and should be. Look at what they did with the Fusion arena, that is innovative.

You do realize the Pistons rent from the Red Wings (who built Little Caesars Arena), no? Of course, LCA is also one of many, many poster children for why we should let Josh Harris absolutely nowhere near Penns Landing.