Ugly Gatineau?

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by harls

Do I need a train avatar to participate?

That's it, I'm done with train avatars

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by caboose

The tower really stood out and wasn't in line with the neighbourhood. That said, Gatineau blocks almost all development, and the downtown is riddled with parking lots.

That's not true at all.

How many other major developments has Gatineau blocked?

Vieux-Hull is riddled with parking lots because historically there was a total lack of investors who wanted to build anything on these lots.

Gatineau even granted permission recently to a developer to demolish a decent-looking heritage building at the corner of Eddy and Wright, in order to facilitate the land assembly for the new W/E2 building.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Prairie cities are far worse (though improving), as Acajack pointed out.

Many of those large surface parking lots in Hull have proposals, so they should be mostly gone within 10 years.

This IS the problem "mostly gone within 10 years?" Is that the best we can hope for maybe in 10 years? And comparing prairie cities to Gatineau? Really, why not compare it to the city directly in front of it, which is Ottawa...

[The Conductor]

We have a bunch of people who want to compare Gatineau's empty dirty parking lots and bleak looking skyline to Brandon Manitoba's empty parking lots...instead of looking at Ottawa which is DIRECTLY in front of Gatineau with a real skyline, a hot housing market, a real restaurant scene, and booming development. Surely Gatineau can aim to be something more besides Brandon Manitoba. Talk about low expectations...

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

This IS the problem "mostly gone within 10 years?" Is that the best we can hope for maybe in 10 years? And comparing prairie cities to Gatineau? Really, why not compare it to the city directly in front of it, which is Ottawa...

Ten years sounds pretty good to me honestly. Ottawa has quite a few large parking lots as well, with the biggest offender at the corner of Kent and Queen in the heart of the CBD. We also have a large parking lot on Slater near Bank. The two biggest surface lots are now finally being redeveloped with Moon and 400 Albert across the street (very close to full approval, but no shovels in the ground just yet).

And then we have LeBreton Flats...

The Hull sector of Gatineau was neglected for two centuries. It started out as a working class industrial town. Organized crime was rampant, with support of the local government for decades in the first half of the 20th Century. The Feds demolished most of its historic core for federal buildings in the 60s and 70s. The Cathedral burned down in 71'. It could have been salvaged, but due to poor heritage rules and declining congregation, it was demolished. Le Vieux Hull was a dangerous place in the 70s up to the 90s due to brawls between Ontarians and Quebecois. It's only in the last 20 years that we've seen an interest from the City in attracting business and promote (sensible) development to the core and encouraging tourists to walk the area beyond the Museum of Civilization with the Sentier Culturel. Zibi, W/E, Viu, the new buildings on Maisonneuve, Brookfield office building, couple new Federal office towers, all in the last 15 years. The City's art district along Montcalm and Morin.

We're getting there, but it takes time. We can't build more than what the demand dictates, otherwise you're left with shiny new abandoned buildings.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

We have a bunch of people who want to compare Gatineau's empty dirty parking lots and bleak looking skyline to Brandon Manitoba's empty parking lots...instead of looking at Ottawa which is DIRECTLY in front of Gatineau with a real skyline, a hot housing market, a real restaurant scene, and booming development. Surely Gatineau can aim to be something more besides Brandon Manitoba. Talk about low expectations...

I was thinking more Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary and Edmonton.

Gatineau's not Ottawa. It's a suburb of Ottawa. We don't expect Longueuil and Laval to meet the same standards as Montréal. And quite honestly, I find that Gatineau does better than Ottawa on a lot of fronts, such as the environment (restrictions on garbage, better recycling program, new building norms including mandatory green roofs for larger developments, further along in electrifying the municipal fleet, protecting sensitive lands). Though Ottawa has done more to protect the river by upgrading its water treatment plants and the new combined sewage tunnel.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ten years sounds pretty good to me honestly. Ottawa has quite a few large parking lots as well, with the biggest offender at the corner of Kent and Queen in the heart of the CBD. We also have a large parking lot on Slater near Bank. The two biggest surface lots are now finally being redeveloped with Moon and 400 Albert across the street (very close to full approval, but no shovels in the ground just yet).

And then we have LeBreton Flats...

The Hull sector of Gatineau was neglected for two centuries. It started out as a working class industrial town. Organized crime was rampant, with support of the local government for decades in the first half of the 20th Century. The Feds demolished most of its historic core for federal buildings in the 60s and 70s. The Cathedral burned down in 71'. It could have been salvaged, but due to poor heritage rules and declining congregation, it was demolished. Le Vieux Hull was a dangerous place in the 70s up to the 90s due to brawls between Ontarians and Quebecois. It's only in the last 20 years that we've seen an interest from the City in attracting business and promote (sensible) development to the core and encouraging tourists to walk the area beyond the Museum of Civilization with the Sentier Culturel. Zibi, W/E, Viu, the new buildings on Maisonneuve, Brookfield office building, couple new Federal office towers, all in the last 15 years. The City's art district along Montcalm and Morin.

We're getting there, but it takes time. We can't build more than what the demand dictates, otherwise you're left with shiny new abandoned buildings.

All correct.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I was thinking more Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary and Edmonton.

Gatineau's not Ottawa. It's a suburb of Ottawa. We don't expect Longueuil and Laval to meet the same standards as Montréal. And quite honestly, I find that Gatineau does better than Ottawa on a lot of fronts, such as the environment (restrictions on garbage, better recycling program, new building norms including mandatory green roofs for larger developments, further along in electrifying the municipal fleet, protecting sensitive lands). Though Ottawa has done more to protect the river by upgrading its water treatment plants and the new combined sewage tunnel.

This might be controversial, and it's still suburbia any way you slice it, but I find newer suburban residential areas in Gatineau somewhat nicer than those in Ottawa's suburbs. And it's not just because lot sizes are slightly larger.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This might be controversial, and it's still suburbia any way you slice it, but I find newer suburban residential areas in Gatineau somewhat nicer than those in Ottawa's suburbs. And it's not just because lot sizes are slightly larger.

The restaurant scene sucks. You have a bunch of dilapidated run down buildings. very few towers, and a bunch of dusty parking lots. Every time Brigil wants to built a tower in Gatineau and the council screws it up somehow. Thank goodness for Zibi otherwise Gatineau would have nothing going on...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

The restaurant scene sucks. You have a bunch of dilapidated run down buildings. very few towers, and a bunch of dusty parking lots. Every time Brigil wants to built a tower in Gatineau and the council screws it up somehow. Thank goodness for Zibi otherwise Gatineau would have nothing going on...

Is this a discussion or an attack?

[FutureWickedCity]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Is this a discussion or an attack?

I feel like we've been hijacked. They just started another thread about a non-existent project (Billings Bridge O-Train station). Moderators...?

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Is this a discussion or an attack?

Of course it's not an attack, we have people who refuse to compare Gatineau's crappy skyline to the city directly in front of it and that being Ottawa's; instead they want to compare it to Brandon Manitoba or Regina Saskatchewan because of the empty dusty parking lots everywhere.

We all know there is a bunch of dilapidated run down buildings and pretending it isn't so only allows the mess to drag on for another 10 years...

Brigil is building in Ottawa now because Gatineau is more or less a write off because he can't build a tower in Gatineau...

Thank goodness for Zibi otherwise Gatineau would have nothing going on...

[caboose]

Love the lonely tree.


Meant to be preserved...

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This might be controversial, and it's still suburbia any way you slice it, but I find newer suburban residential areas in Gatineau somewhat nicer than those in Ottawa's suburbs. And it's not just because lot sizes are slightly larger.

It's quite possible. Over the last 15 years, I've spent a limited amount of time in modern Gatineau suburban areas beyond Le Plateau, which is pretty nice compared to the modern parts of Orleans and Barrhaven, and the northern part of Masson, which looks pretty crappy. I'm much more familiar with the Ottawa suburban build form.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

The restaurant scene sucks. You have a bunch of dilapidated run down buildings. very few towers, and a bunch of dusty parking lots. Every time Brigil wants to built a tower in Gatineau and the council screws it up somehow. Thank goodness for Zibi otherwise Gatineau would have nothing going on...

OK, so this confirms that it's an attack!

[caboose]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's quite possible. Over the last 15 years, I've spent a limited amount of time in modern Gatineau suburban areas beyond Le Plateau, which is pretty nice compared to the modern parts of Orleans and Barrhaven, and the northern part of Masson, which looks pretty crappy. I'm much more familiar with the Ottawa suburban build form.

I live on the Gatineau side, and I do prefer the suburban areas of Gatineau to those of Ottawa. I think it's because they aren't as cookie cutter as Ottawa.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Acajack

OK, so this confirms that it's an attack!

The whole thing is ridiculous. Gatineau has a skyline that far exceeds any other city of it's population in Canada (courtesy of the federal government) and it has far less surface parking than the average city of it's size OR per capita. Ile-de-Hull isn't even that run down these days. Sure the housing is of a bygone era with the fake stone and cheesy adornments, but it's fairly well kept on most streets these days and there is some infill beginning. There is constant development going on downtown, with new condos and offices taking up 'dusty parking lot's every year'.

This really is just a silly attack with no foundation.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

The restaurant scene sucks. You have a bunch of dilapidated run down buildings. very few towers, and a bunch of dusty parking lots. Every time Brigil wants to built a tower in Gatineau and the council screws it up somehow. Thank goodness for Zibi otherwise Gatineau would have nothing going on...

I can only recall the rejection of Place des Peuples. What other Brigil tower project was declined by the City of Gatineau?

At the moment, Brigil has at least one tower u/c on St. Joseph, Le Columbia.

http://www.brigil.com/le-columbia-en

Viu II from Group Heafey, which has far better architecture than most Ottawa condo and apartments built or proposed over the last, well, forever.

https://www.leviu.ca/en/

And of course Zibi, with the Gatieau and Ottawa sides going up at a similar pace.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I can only recall the rejection of Place des Peuples. What other Brigil tower project was declined by the City of Gatineau?

At the moment, Brigil has at least one tower u/c on St. Joseph, Le Columbia.

http://www.brigil.com/le-columbia-en

Viu II from Group Heafey, which has far better architecture than most Ottawa condo and apartments built or proposed over the last, well, forever.

https://www.leviu.ca/en/

And of course Zibi, with the Gatieau and Ottawa sides going up at a similar pace.

I think that the rejection of the Place des Peuples was a significant enough slap in the face to Brigil, as they put in considerable effort including completely redesigning it by the same indigenous architect who designed the museum to satisfy the residents of the neighbourhood. The residents wanted nothing there. It wouldn't have mattered if they lowered the height.

The Viu is a nice looking building, and Zibi is coming along nicely.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I can only recall the rejection of Place des Peuples. What other Brigil tower project was declined by the City of Gatineau?

At the moment, Brigil has at least one tower u/c on St. Joseph, Le Columbia.

http://www.brigil.com/le-columbia-en

Viu II from Group Heafey, which has far better architecture than most Ottawa condo and apartments built or proposed over the last, well, forever.

https://www.leviu.ca/en/

And of course Zibi, with the Gatieau and Ottawa sides going up at a similar pace.

Yes. Brigil was allowed by the Ville de Gatineau to graft a modern condo tower onto the old Columbia farmhouse, which I believe might be the oldest building still standing in the entire NCR.

Brigil is also going to redevelop the Place Cartier near-dead mall right across the street from it.

Brigil also has four or five other full-servce lifestyle condo projects under its Apogée banner in other parts of Gatineau, and a half-dozen or so other projects of SFHs, townhomes and smaller condo buildings in the city as well.