West Gatineau Tramway & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by caboose

I think 20% is a good balance. It makes it so that there is a meaningful number of spaces without making it unattractive for the builder.

Aim for the moon, land among the stars.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

I like the idea of having an intermodal station at Billings Bridge. It could take some of the Southeast Transitway passengers to downtown.

I like the idea of having an intermodal station at Billings Bridge. It could take some of the Southeast Transitway passengers to downtown.

I agree an intermodal station at Billings Bridge is needed. It could take some of the Southeast Transitway passengers to downtown. We need an O-Train tunnel from Billings Bridge to downtown

[caboose]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

I like the idea of having an intermodal station at Billings Bridge. It could take some of the Southeast Transitway passengers to downtown.

I agree an intermodal station at Billings Bridge is needed. It could take some of the Southeast Transitway passengers to downtown. We need an O-Train tunnel from Billings Bridge to downtown

if The Boring Company can do it for $10 million USD per mile, it wouldn't be an expensive proposition, as it's less than 5km.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by JayBuoy

Economic and social justice for all? Capitalism is literally the cause of this phenomenon. It is land speculation at the expense of those who cannot compete in terms of capital investment. People are currently being displaced because their homes are geographically well situated. This happens if you rent or own, as property tax is tied to home value, which rises as gentrification runs its course. Capital improvements come along after as a result of the new, monied residents attracting a greater variety of services. Capital improvements alone does not constitute gentrification. We could achieve the same result by improving the economic standing of the existing residents.

We could guarantee housing to all, invest in our cities and build housing rather then letting the market throttle supply at the expense of everyone. Prevent speculation in the property market. Reject the commodity status of a basic necessity.

It's veering way off topic but just wow. Read some history there is no better system in history and letting people get out of poverty and creating wealth.
Even the Soviet Union couldn't keep up with the demand for their very substandard housing and they had literally killed millions of people to make all land public.

Back to the topic is your argument somewhere like Vanier is better off without rapid transit that will bring gentrification? There is some logic to that though the timeline before most people are priced out is fairly long and the large stock of cheap multi unit housing and other constraints suggest it might be lower income for the medium term at least regardless of rapid transit.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

if The Boring Company can do it for $10 million USD per mile, it wouldn't be an expensive proposition, as it's less than 5km.

That would be perfect for a Bank St Tunnel

[The Conductor]

Getting the Bank Street line done would actually be a logical move to really remove buses off Bank and a lots of cars. Plus with sporting events, concerts and so on it would allow you to move large numbers of people in and out during specific time periods

[caboose]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

Getting the Bank Street line done would actually be a logical move to really remove buses off Bank and a lots of cars. Plus with sporting events, concerts and so on it would allow you to move large numbers of people in and out during specific time periods

At USD $10M per mile, it's a no-brainer.

[eltodesukane]

Yes, considering New York Second Avenue Subway which cost $2.6 billion per mile.
(The approximate range of underground rail construction costs in continental Europe and Japan is between $100 million per mile, at the lowest end, and $1 billion at the highest.)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...less-subway-for-its-money-than-its-peers

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Yes, considering New York Second Avenue Subway which cost $2.6 billion per mile.
(The approximate range of underground rail construction costs in continental Europe and Japan is between $100 million per mile, at the lowest end, and $1 billion at the highest.)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...less-subway-for-its-money-than-its-peers

What if we just did Billings > Sunnyside > Lansdowne > 417 > Parliament and made it a Boring Company project?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

I like the idea of having an intermodal station at Billings Bridge. It could take some of the Southeast Transitway passengers to downtown.

I agree an intermodal station at Billings Bridge is needed. It could take some of the Southeast Transitway passengers to downtown. We need an O-Train tunnel from Billings Bridge to downtown

I have said it before, but I would extend the train south along the SE Transitway and connect to Stage 2 south of Huntclub. The whole line could easily be double tracked that way, leaving Line 2 from Bayview to South Keys single tracked, as that is the section that would be most difficult and costly. For the purpose of serving Carleton, the new Civic Hospital and as a western bypass, Stage 2 upgrades will be more than adequate for a very, very long time (if there is a direct route downtown).

The section of the SE Transitway north of Billings Bridge would be kept used as an extension of the Baseline BRT project to bypass downtown and connect to Line 1 in the east.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

What if we just did Billings > Sunnyside > Lansdowne > 417 > Parliament and made it a Boring Company project?

Exactly - at $10 Million USD per mile the Boring Company of Elon Musk would make the Bank Street O-Train tunnel a very logical new line

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

Exactly - at $10 Million USD per mile the Boring Company of Elon Musk would make the Bank Street O-Train tunnel a very logical new line

Well at that price a lot of lines make sense. Of course if we believe musk we will all be in electrical autonomous vehicles buring cheap plentiful carbon free energy and vacationing on the moon so might not need a subway to Lansdowne anymore.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I have said it before, but I would extend the train south along the SE Transitway and connect to Stage 2 south of Huntclub. The whole line could easily be double tracked that way, leaving Line 2 from Bayview to South Keys single tracked, as that is the section that would be most difficult and costly. For the purpose of serving Carleton, the new Civic Hospital and as a western bypass, Stage 2 upgrades will be more than adequate for a very, very long time (if there is a direct route downtown).

The section of the SE Transitway north of Billings Bridge would be kept used as an extension of the Baseline BRT project to bypass downtown and connect to Line 1 in the east.

Interesting thoughts and I agree with some of it. However we really need to start pushing the idea of a proper line from Parliament Station to Billings Bridge

[caboose]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I have said it before, but I would extend the train south along the SE Transitway and connect to Stage 2 south of Huntclub. The whole line could easily be double tracked that way, leaving Line 2 from Bayview to South Keys single tracked, as that is the section that would be most difficult and costly. For the purpose of serving Carleton, the new Civic Hospital and as a western bypass, Stage 2 upgrades will be more than adequate for a very, very long time (if there is a direct route downtown).

The section of the SE Transitway north of Billings Bridge would be kept used as an extension of the Baseline BRT project to bypass downtown and connect to Line 1 in the east.

At USD $10M per mile, I think that even BRT/Transitway projects make more sense as Boring Company tunnels. The Baseline BRT could be the Baseline Subway for a hundred or so million.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Here's an idea for a roughly 9 km LRT route for Gatineau that could be extended westward along the 148 corridor and incorporate the future conversion of the Rapibus to LRT. I think this has more TOD potential than the river route, and the investment would be useable by more residents in the short and long term.



Excuse the size of the following diagrams as I wanted to have them all at the same scale. 60m platforms would probably be sufficient for a long time, using a train similar to the expanded version of Ottawa's Citadis



I imagine this sort of integration with the Confederation Line at Lyon, and either using the Portage Bridge or just excavating a tunnel under the river:



Continuing in a cut-and-cover along Maisonneuve:



And then westward either along the highway or by implementing some road diets:



It would service Galleries de Hull and The St-Joseph main street:



It would make the hospital more accessible, and imagine being able to ski Gatineau Park coming off the LRT



It would terminate BRT plaza near the cinemas in the Plateau until a future phase to extend it all the way to Old Aylmer:

Like it but it needs a full loop back on to Tache and back to St Raymond

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

Exactly - at $10 Million USD per mile the Boring Company of Elon Musk would make the Bank Street O-Train tunnel a very logical new line

So far they've only built one super narrow tunnel without any infrastructure at $100M/mile.

I suppose you can dig a teeny-tiny hole in the ground at $10M/mile but you'll need to spend hundreds of millions more before you can send down trains into it.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

So far they've only built one super narrow tunnel without any infrastructure at $100M/mile.

I suppose you can dig a teeny-tiny hole in the ground at $10M/mile but you'll need to spend hundreds of millions more before you can send down trains into it.

If you use SNC Lavalin or RTG, sure, it'll balloon in cost. Check out the Las Vegas Loop. It's well on its way to being the proof of concept of The Boring Company.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

Like it but it needs a full loop back on to Tache and back to St Raymond

Good luck buying that piece of land behind the cinema. The owners have been a hold out for over a decade!

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

It's veering way off topic but just wow. Read some history

I think I've heard of this history thing

Originally Posted by YOWetal

there is no better system in history and letting people get out of poverty and creating wealth.
Even the Soviet Union couldn't keep up with the demand for their very substandard housing and they had literally killed millions of people to make all land public.

Very simplistic assessment. Capitalism has allowed certain in groups to accumulate wealth, mostly a few very-high wealth individuals, and has denied autonomy and material well being to pretty much everyone else. That includes shelter.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Back to the topic is your argument somewhere like Vanier is better off without rapid transit that will bring gentrification? There is some logic to that though the timeline before most people are priced out is fairly long and the large stock of cheap multi unit housing and other constraints suggest it might be lower income for the medium term at least regardless of rapid transit.

No rapid transit is essential, but economic justice is also an essential element for good urbanism. Wealth disparity has terrible effects on the quality of the urban fabric. Displacement through gentrification just pushes those problems somewhere else.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

Good luck buying that piece of land behind the cinema. The owners have been a hold out for over a decade!

I agree that's a problem that NEEDS to be solved but we need the a proper loop which is why Tache needs to happen