NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[JMKeynes]

Site 6 has so much garbage. I hope that the State condemns, via eminent domain, all of the junk on 34th that's not in Site 6.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Site 6 has so much garbage. I hope that the State condemns, via eminent domain, all of the junk on 34th that's not in Site 6.

That was originally included in the scope of the project before the borders were refined. 34th Street in that area is a retail stretch, though it will probably be redeveloped anyway, even possibly with more retail. Vornado doesn't own that portion of the block.








The other end of the block...

[JMKeynes]

Everything on 34th from T Mobile until Old Navy is horrendous and looks like crap. That's why I hope that NYS condemns it.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Everything on 34th from T Mobile until Old Navy is horrendous and looks like crap. That's why I hope that NYS condemns it.

Retail is also valuable in Manhattan real esate. I know that Target somehow managed to remain open when everything else was closed. Many people appreciated it. But I would expect that strip to eventually be redeveloped, with some ground level retail.

The governor’s plan may only target a relatively small footprint, but it will jumpstart development in the general area. Not everything will be done at once. Using the Hudson Yards as an example, 50 years from now people will look at the building of all those towers as being done at the same time. But here in real time, we can see that’s not the case. Some are built, some are half built, some are just getting underway, and some have yet to be revealed.

[NYguy]

A cool shot of Penn Station in early construction. We may see something similar with the expansion south, just on a smaller scale.




https://www.archdaily.com/475072/ad-clas...vania-station-mckim-mead-and-white-photo




https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/22xmi2/what_manhattan_looked_like_during_the/




https://www.nycurbanism.com/photography/construction-of-penn-station-1903

[NYguy]

Another look back at demo for the original Penn Station.



https://www.instagram.com/p/CCEomFkHfMt/

This photo from 1903 shows one of the final remaining buildings on the future Pennsylvania Station site, days before demolition. The building, built in 1877, was home to Estherson's Family Wine & Liquor Store at 393 Seventh Avenue between 31st and 32nd Streets. Demolition, excavation, and construction would take seven years and Penn Station would open in November 1910.

The caption should read "last on that block", the block just north (right side) would also go.








The block south of Penn Station is where the main expansion will take place, with the largest concentration of development, over 6 msf split between two towers (likely a 4/2 scenario).

The plan is for a large, open plaza between the two towers. I've been thinking about it, and wondering if an open plaza is best, or should a glass covered, wintergarden-like plaza between the two towers be considered. It's harder to say at this point, not knowing what form these towers would take. But it seems unlikely that any new terminal or station building will rise on site beneath the towers, as seen in some other plans. So, it's for this reason that I think a wintergarden-like plan would work best. That's if they don't use that idea for the Hotel Penn site.








You can see here, it would be an open plaza, with direct views of the horrible MSG.












The largest of the towers could be a massive, 4 msf giant.

















Sites 2, 7, and 8 will hold the largest of the towers. So, should there be a plaze between 7 and 8 as well? I would say no, mainly because there will be a large retail concourse on those sites, and also, the Herald Square plazas around the corner. The CB says they don't think the one plaza is enough.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Retail is also valuable in Manhattan real esate. I know that Target somehow managed to remain open when everything else was closed. Many people appreciated it. But I would expect that strip to eventually be redeveloped, with some ground level retail.

The governor’s plan may only target a relatively small footprint, but it will jumpstart development in the general area. Not everything will be done at once. Using the Hudson Yards as an example, 50 years from now people will look at the building of all those towers as being done at the same time. But here in real time, we can see that’s not the case. Some are built, some are half built, some are just getting underway, and some have yet to be revealed.

But my concern is that all of those dilapidated little buildings are probably owned by different individuals, and it would be hard to assemble a site. This is a golden opportunity to do so via eminent domain.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

But my concern is that all of those dilapidated little buildings are probably owned by different individuals, and it would be hard to assemble a site. This is a golden opportunity to do so via eminent domain.

I don't think that stretch is a good candidate for eminent domain, it's not directly tied to the expansion of the station itself, and those sites are active business uses. That's probably the reason it was dropped. The sites in question for eminent domain (if necessary) are the southern sites that will accommodate the actual tracks and platforms.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I don't think that stretch is a good candidate for eminent domain, it's not directly tied to the expansion of the station itself, and those sites are active business uses. That's probably the reason it was dropped. The sites in question for eminent domain (if necessary) are the southern sites that will accommodate the actual tracks and platforms.

All of those junky stores make the area look like Shlock Central though. The last use of eminent domain that I recall was when the state condemned some garbage on 42nd for Durst to proceed with BofA. That corner went from hell to heaven.

[chris08876]

Doesn't look like its within the confines of what is seeked for the district.

Granted it will probally hit the chopping block one day. Locations like that, given the area, are bound to go eventually. One almost as to wonder why it hasn't gone away already, but I think once Empire Station is finished or in the process of rising, we will see a spill over effect to nearby parcels, just like we have with Hudson Yards. "The hottest new neighborhood" type of situation.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

All of those junky stores make the area look like Shlock Central though. The last use of eminent domain that I recall was when the state condemned some garbage on 42nd for Durst to proceed with BofA.
That corner went from hell to heaven.

That was generally a rundown and crime infested area. That's not the case on 34th Street, home of Macy's flagship and a lot of other retail.

Read the article below...

https://nypost.com/2019/05/20/the-real-miracle-on-34th-street-is-its-retail-renaissance/

The real miracle on 34th Street is its retail renaissance

By Lois Weiss
May 20, 2019








https://www.6sqft.com/macys-may-build-a-skyscraper-above-its-flagship-herald-square-store/



https://ny.curbed.com/2017/6/7/15753726/new-york-macys-herald-square-roof-park



https://www.vno.com/street-retail/property/150-west-34th-street/3312729/landing



https://www.lorellinyc.com/portfolio-item/retail/

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by NYguy

That was generally a rundown and crime infested area. That's not the case on 34th Street, home of Macy's flagship and a lot of other retail.

Read the article below...

https://nypost.com/2019/05/20/the-real-miracle-on-34th-street-is-its-retail-renaissance/

The real miracle on 34th Street is its retail renaissance

By Lois Weiss
May 20, 2019

Everything on 34th east of the Old Navy is horrible.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Everything on 34th east of the Old Navy is horrible.

Well, nothing beats horrible like money coming in. Those retail locations are well served, and until the redevelopment of the area makes it more profitable to develop, that's the way it'll be. That's why Vornado has been holding on to so many sites in the area for so long.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Well, nothing beats horrible like money coming in. Those retail locations are well served, and until the redevelopment of the area makes it more profitable to develop, that's the way it'll be. That's why Vornado has been holding on to so many sites in the area for so long.

I'm sure that Vornado would love to buy those sites. I'd speculate that the Estate of Sol Goldman probably owns a few of them. The company that owns his properties owns so much heinous garbage in prime locations.

http://www.solil.com/commercial-properties/

[Sky88]

Originally Posted by NYguy
The block south of Penn Station is where the main expansion will take place, with the largest concentration of development, over 6 msf split between two towers (likely a 4/2 scenario).

Well, then we can imagine two towers like these but with the largest tower with 4 msg and 1,700 ft high (with the addition of a spire).


World Trade Center for Perth

[Zapatan]

I missed the 6 msf between two towers part, holy f*ck, that's all I have to say

[NYguy]

^ Yeah, and it won't be an even split, so instead of 3/3, more like 4/2. Both large towers either way.

This skyline will seem quaint...


https://www.instagram.com/p/CEH2etAlmJb/

[NYguy]

While Vornado will be the driving force behind the northern towers (sites 4 - 8), the state will have to bid out the rights for the remaining sites. Maybe one of the big guys like (like'em or not), Tishman, Durst, Silverstein, Brookfield, etc.
Related and Vornado should remain focused on other developments at work in the area. I'm not sure if this would be up to JDS or Extell at the moment, they have more of a track record in residential.

But looking back on how the JDS proposal treated the expansion area (1 - 3), I have a couple of thoughts.















I don't like the towers on a podium concept...















But I do like the idea of an enclosed pubic space there, between the towers...the view of MSG would be more tolerable.











So I do hope that whoever is brought in to develop these towers plans for more than just towers around a plaza.

Maybe even something like Brookfield's Hudson Yards proposal...








Or even one of these old Manhattan West ideas...

[Sky88]

If I remember correctly the properties of Vornado are those indicated in the image below and include sites 4-5-6-7-8.



I hope that Tishman or Durst are not part of the builders for 1-2-3 sites. On site 2 we need a 1,500-1,600 ft tall tower with 4 million sq. A symbolic tower that becomes a new landmark in the skyline.

[Sky88]

Governor Cuomo’s ‘Empire Station Complex’ Masterplan Enters Next Phase Of Development
BY: SEBASTIAN MORRIS 8:00 AM ON AUGUST 21, 2020

Earlier this year, Governor Andrew Cuomo announced the Empire State Complex, a major redevelopment initiative for the area surrounding Pennsylvania Station. The project team is now completing a final scope of work, which will take into consideration the many comments received from community activists, experts, and officials since a scoping meeting on July 20, 2020.

Before construction can break ground, an environmental assessment will also need to take place to consider the potential effects of shadows cast by the new structures, changes to the pedestrian experience, water and sewer infrastructure, public health, and the potential effects on nearby historic buildings. These buildings include the James A. Farley Complex, Hotel Pennsylvania, the church and rectory of St. John the Baptist, the Fairmont Building, the Penn Station Service Building, and some loft buildings on 31st Street.

An estimated cost for the complex has not been revealed. However, according to Governor Cuomo, the project is “self-funded” by city income and Payment in Lieu of Taxes (PILOT) fees that are issued to manufacturing, industrial, and not-for-profit companies. According to a preliminary schedule from New York’s Empire State Development agency, the final scope of work will be presented toward the end of 2021.

http://newyorkyimby.com/2020/08/governor...an-enters-next-phase-of-development.html