Downtown Vancouver Updates

[Vin]

Concord must retain the heritage structure in its entirety. Any less will be an abomination. The City can assist by making it MANDATORY for them to do so, and then get rid of the stupid View Cones here.

Simple.

[jlousa]

Unfortunate that Concord won out, their track record of doing anything but residential is lackluster, and the fact that they bid this much does not bode well for this development nor the city.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Unfortunate that Concord won out, their track record of doing anything but residential is lackluster, and the fact that they bid this much does not bode well for this development nor the city.

Judging by the fact Wall Center is across, and 4 of the most ambitious projects/proposals are less than a block away - Butterfly, 1075 Nelson, and the box towers behind it, I think it paints a clear picture of the type of development Concord plans for this site to make it economical.

I don't know enough Concords finances, but I wonder how much a billion is to them.
Is it enough money that would prompt imminent (imminent by Vancouver standards, so not 20 years) development?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by rofina

Judging by the fact Wall Center is across, and 4 of the most ambitious projects/proposals are less than a block away - Butterfly, 1075 Nelson, and the box towers behind it, I think it paints a clear picture of the type of development Concord plans for this site to make it economical.

I don't know enough Concords finances, but I wonder how much a billion is to them.
Is it enough money that would prompt imminent (imminent by Vancouver standards, so not 20 years) development?

Well we also don't know when the money will be transferred. I suspect it will be in stages.

Nothing will happen until at least 2026, which is when the current SPH can move to their new site, assuming all goes well.

This will be a hassle to demolish, there's probably asbestos everywhere, lead walls, and so on.

NEFC is where I want to see Concord start moving!

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well we also don't know when the money will be transferred. I suspect it will be in stages.

Nothing will happen until at least 2026, which is when the current SPH can move to their new site, assuming all goes well.

This will be a hassle to demolish, there's probably asbestos everywhere, lead walls, and so on.

NEFC is where I want to see Concord start moving!

Agreed! NEFC has very exciting potential.

Realistically it will take years of planning, rezoning, and negotiating with the city to get this land developed - in theory if the deal closes soon I imagine they would be allowed to begin the planning process as well - which at best on a site this size and significance will take years. You then have pre-sales (presumably) and a 2026 start to construction doesn't seem unreasonable anyway.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Concord must retain the heritage structure in its entirety. Any less will be an abomination. The City can assist by making it MANDATORY for them to do so, and then get rid of the stupid View Cones here.

Simple.

The City can't do that on the heritage point. It's sad that in 7 years and 6,000+ comments you still don't have a clue what the City can, and can't do with heritage buildings, although it's been explained several times.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The City can't do that on the heritage point. It's sad that in 7 years and 6,000+ comments you still don't have a clue what the City can, and can't do with heritage buildings, although it's been explained several times.

Rules are written by people, so if they decide on what they want to do on the heritage point, they can. If they cannot, they are no different from a lame duck, and perhaps this is what the City of Vancouver is all about. Sugarcoaters like yourself are what makes the City this way, because in your world, no matter what happens, it's always good and fair, nice and dandy.

[logan5]

What's the height limit for this site? Because a billion dollars should buy a lot of square footage, plus (I believe) there are floor plate limits as well, as per the West End OCP. Not sure if it's possible to to contain all that square footage inside the height restrictions.

What would the $ per buildable sq foot be for this site?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Rules are written by people, so if they decide on what they want to do on the heritage point, they can. If they cannot, they are no different from a lame duck, and perhaps this is what the City of Vancouver is all about. Sugarcoaters like yourself are what makes the City this way, because in your world, no matter what happens, it's always good and fair, nice and dandy.

The City operates within a set of rules written by the Province of British Columbia. You can find them in the Vancouver Charter. The Province decides if the City can unilaterally protect a heritage building. They have decided not to give the City that power. Therefore the City can't do it. Is that simple enough for you to understand? I'm not arguing for, or against the protection of the heritage part of St. Paul's, I'm explaining that it will be up to Concord as owner whether, and how much of the existing building stays - not the City. It's not sugar coating - it's fact.

[logan5]

Not that I'm on Vin's side, but I thought that certain buildings could be protected...

Under the Vancouver Charter, Council has the power to protect our valuable heritage sites from demolition or unsympathetic alterations.

https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/heritage-conservation.aspx

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The City operates within a set of rules written by the Province of British Columbia. You can find them in the Vancouver Charter. The Province decides if the City can unilaterally protect a heritage building. They have decided not to give the City that power.

Nice of you to explain that for everyone else who is not aware of the situation, instead of always castigating Vin whenever he posts something.

[SpongeG]

turn it into a shopping mall!!

[logan5]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

turn it into a shopping mall!!

I'm somewhat on board with that. My idea is to convert the St. Pauls section into a shopping galleria, similar to this...

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logan5

Not that I'm on Vin's side, but I thought that certain buildings could be protected...

https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/heritage-conservation.aspx

I can't think of a single example of where they've successfully done that - it's always a negotiation with an owner that allows them greater density (potentially transferred off site) in exchange for the protection of heritage.

If you read the Charter, the City can temporarily protect heritage buildings, but any attempt to limit an owners rights to development must be compensated. That's not going to be feasible - it'll be a negotiation My guess would be that Concord will agree to protect the exterior of some of the heritage building - the Burrard St frontage, obviously.

Here's what they can theoretically build now:
◾Site Area: 292,235 SF, or 6.7 acres
◾Existing Zoning: DD – Downtown District (Sub Area G)
◾Permitted Density: 6.0 FSR (office not to exceed 5.0 FSR), or 1,753,410 SF (under current zoning)
◾Allowable Height: 300 ft (with discretionary increase to 450 ft)
◾View Cones: View cone C1 (Laurel Landbridge to the Lions) bisects the site and likely limits much of the site to at or near the 300 ft. limit (30-storeys for residential).

So a bonus of 250,000 sq. ft. to preserve the facades could see them get to 2 million sq ft, or about 6.8 FSR, without trying to break through the viewcone.

[officedweller]

From April 2015 with a map of the viewcone:

Originally Posted by officedweller

http://www.vancouvermarket.ca/2015/04/13/how-much-is-the-st-pauls-hospital-site-worth/

http://www.vancouvermarket.ca/2015/04/13/how-much-is-the-st-pauls-hospital-site-worth/

You might just see the 1912 building preserved (whether just facade or more):


http://heritagevancouver.org/top10-watch-list/2013/6-st-pauls-hospital-burrard-building/

St. Paul’s Hospital: Burrard Building (1912-13, 1930s)

Significance
What is the significance of the Burrard Building?

1894
The original St. Paul’s Hospital was a 25-bed, 4-storey wood frame building designed and constructed by Mother Joseph of the Sacred Heart. An accomplished carpenter and the first woman architect of the Pacific Northwest, Mother Joseph was responsible for more than 30 hospitals, schools and homes for those in need. The Sisters of Providence had acquired the St. Paul’s site, then a piece of wilderness on Burrard Street, for health care purposes. The Hospital cost $28,000 and opened in 1894, just eight years after incorporation of the fledgling City of Vancouver. In the years that followed, the Sisters would build twelve more buildings on the site.

1912
In the Edwardian-era boom of 1912 the original building was demolished to make way for a new reinforced concrete structure finished in the Second Renaissance Revival style with brick, terra cotta and granite. Now known as the Centre Block of the Burrard Building, the cross-shaped floor plan accommodated 200 patients and cost $400,000. The architect was German-born Robert F. Tegen, who had worked in architectural offices in New York and other eastern cities before moving to Portland. Tegen’s earlier work for the American Sisters of Providence made him a natural choice to design the new Vancouver facility. The terra cotta came from Gladding, McBean & Company of Lincoln, California.

1931–1939
In 1931, the north wing was added, followed by the south wing in 1939. Both were designed by architects Gardiner & Mercer, and demonstrate remarkable consistency with the design of the original building. Construction photos show the robust concrete construction of the historic buildings.

1979–1988
In the 1970s, more land was acquired to the south and the ten storey Providence Buildings, designed by Unecon Architecture, were constructed. Phase 1 opened in 1979, Phase 2 in 1988.

St. Paul’s Hospital holds heritage significance as a landmark for health care in Vancouver. Founded by Mother Marie Fredric and the Sisters of Providence at the request of Bishop Paul Durieu, for whom the Hospital is named, it has been in continuous operation at this site since 1894.

St. Paul’s Hospital is listed on the Vancouver Heritage Register in category “A” but is not a designated heritage building and is not protected by legal statute.

http://heritagevancouver.org/top10-watch-list/2015/2-stpauls-hospital-burrard-building/


http://heritagevancouver.org/top10-watch-list/2015/2-stpauls-hospital-burrard-building/

You can see a chunk was added to the front of the 1912 building replacing the stairs.
That section would likely be removed in any restoration.


http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Plans...centre+Paul+Hospital/11317660/story.html

************

By way of reference (and I know it's a different scenario since Providence Health Care is exiting the site), but the VGH Precinct Plan (if it is still current), proposes to preserve and restore the 1906 Heather Pavilion at VGH with green space around it.
I doubt the view cones would allow that much open space at St. Paul's though, but there could be a relaxation of height limits outside the view cone in exchange for green space under the view cone.


https://donvaughan.wordpress.com/landsca.../vancouver-general-hospital-master-plan/


https://www.facebook.com/notes/vgh-ubc-h...s-historic-heather-pavilion/58972716161/

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Vin

Concord must retain the heritage structure in its entirety. Any less will be an abomination. The City can assist by making it MANDATORY for them to do so, and then get rid of the stupid View Cones here.

Simple.

Not to confront, but to clarify, when you say Concord must do you mean that they must do this by law? ... or that it is morally imperative for them to do so?
The statement you make seems to blur a little, in my perception. If everything we wanted "had to be" then we'd all be pretty fat & happy. But reality isn't that way.
(Or hadn't anyone noticed?)

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

Nice of you to explain that for everyone else who is not aware of the situation, instead of always castigating Vin whenever he posts something.

After he personally insults him.

[Migrant_Coconut]

It IS mildly irritating that Vancouverites learn in school about the fundamental checks and balances necessary for a Western democracy... and then grow up and blame Council for not acting like an oligarchic Asian city-state.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The City operates within a set of rules written by the Province of British Columbia. You can find them in the Vancouver Charter. The Province decides if the City can unilaterally protect a heritage building. They have decided not to give the City that power. Therefore the City can't do it. Is that simple enough for you to understand? I'm not arguing for, or against the protection of the heritage part of St. Paul's, I'm explaining that it will be up to Concord as owner whether, and how much of the existing building stays - not the City. It's not sugar coating - it's fact.

Has the City ever bothered fighting for that right? Nah, don't think so: never heard a peep from them regarding any heritage protection. Doesn't matter who makes the rules, society moves to create better rules, and not just accept the status quo.

By the way, I looked it up:
https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/heritage-conservation.aspx

Heritage management plan:
Under the Vancouver Charter, Council has the power to protect our valuable heritage sites from demolition or unsympathetic alterations.

What do you have to say for yourself?

Originally Posted by SpongeG

turn it into a shopping mall!!

I second that! If Concord has even a shred of conscience they would keep the heritage building and convert it into a mall. There is a mall in Amsterdam which was a heritage build, and it looks beautiful!
Front:https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3739443,...w3i79vZUOvjbXfrqefl9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Side: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3732042,...pxjwW_ofyhIBWjDqcAIqw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Plaza
It wasn't always a shopping centre: used to be a post office building.

Originally Posted by logan5

I'm somewhat on board with that. My idea is to convert the St. Pauls section into a shopping galleria, similar to this...

Wow, nice to have you agreeing for a change.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Not to confront, but to clarify, when you say Concord must do you mean that they must do this by law? ... or that it is morally imperative for them to do so?
The statement you make seems to blur a little, in my perception. If everything we wanted "had to be" then we'd all be pretty fat & happy. But reality isn't that way.
(Or hadn't anyone noticed?)

The law here is pretty backward when it comes to heritage protection. Hence it is more of a moral obligation than anything else, unfortunately.