The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Oh but not pointless to them. They love muddying the water.

“They”?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by giallo

Sigh....

• Video Link

I've had idiots in a passing car throw me a bottle while I was on foot (as well as screaming some incoherent stuff that I didn't even all get, likely insults).

Didn't affect me very much. There are idiots out there, always were, always will be, I knew that already and can't do much to change that.

If I'd been Asian I'm sure they'd have added a "— chink!" for good measure. Wouldn't have changed much. (I don't subscribe to the "OMG it's now a racist hate crime, much more grave!" viewpoint; it's the same thing, it's just idiots using whatever insult is available that happens to match their random target.)

If I had pinged their gaydar I'm sure they'd have added a "— —!", if I'd been a woman I'm sure they'd have added a "— —!", if I'd been black I'm sure they'd have added a "— —!", if I'd been fat I'm sure they'd have added a "— lard-—!". Not exactly personal... not such a big deal (IMO). An insult's power to hurt you is only proportional to the esteem you have for the person it comes from, and in that case, the correct amount is "absolutely none".

I agree with the teen in the video, though my message to them would have been slightly different: you're just losers who need to try to bring down others to feel slightly less bad about how much of a loser you are. I'm sorry for you.

[wg_flamip]

Well if that's not just the picture of privilege right there.

This violent incident isn't about the experience of the person it happened to but rather my feelings about what I would do and feel in a hypothetical situation with similarities confined to parameters that suit my argument and are limited by my experience. Watch me spew slurs that aren't about me just to prove how well I'd take them!

[savevp]

Privilege, perhaps, but that doesn't/shouldn't nullify lio's point that this ought not to be a significant news story, if it is.

To expand on that, this is an example of personal biases and racism on a personal level. Even if Black Lives Matter or any of the groups had a coherent plan to address systemic racism, is there any possible way to rid society of personal biases? Even the wokest angel harbours thoughts.

No one is immune from those. In polite society, you'd expect someone not to act on their racist thoughts, but as the culture war rages (yesterday around pronouns, today around statues), it's likely an increasing amount of yobbos will take it in their heads to chuck bottles out car windows and the like. This news story is unfortunate, but also not news.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by wg_flamip

Well if that's not just the picture of privilege right there.

Did you ever stop and think maybe it's the other way around? That I'm successful because I'm thick-skinned and can shrug these things off rather than let them demoralize me, instead of suggesting the only reason I can afford to act thick-skinned and not wallow in self-pity is that I'm apparently "privileged" in the first place?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by savevp

Privilege, perhaps, but that doesn't/shouldn't nullify lio's point that this ought not to be a significant news story, if it is.

To expand on that, this is an example of personal biases and racism on a personal level. Even if Black Lives Matter or any of the groups had a coherent plan to address systemic racism, is there any possible way to rid society of personal biases? Even the wokest angel harbours thoughts.

No one is immune from those. In polite society, you'd expect someone not to act on their racist thoughts, but as the culture war rages (yesterday around pronouns, today around statues), it's likely an increasing amount of yobbos will take it in their heads to chuck bottles out car windows and the like. This news story is unfortunate, but also not news.

Plus, any time someone wants to insult someone else (which is something that occurs from time to time and that we haven't been able to prevent since the dawn of humanity, and likely never will), among the insults available to the opportunistic insulter, one of the obvious low-hanging fruit is looks/appearance of the target.

You think you're privileged because you're a white cis hetero WASP smart rich good-looking man? And that this makes you immune to slurs? Wrong. Move to the cradle of Canada / second main province / second main city, and watch your colleagues call you a "— square head" behind your back if they don't like you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't try to discourage this kind of behavior, I'm saying we will never be able to fully eradicate it, and that given that fact, we should try to learn to not let it destroy our self-esteem whenever it happens, or read too much into it. Let's stop being fragile little things.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by lio45

I've had idiots in a passing car throw me a bottle while I was on foot (as well as screaming some incoherent stuff that I didn't even all get, likely insults).

Didn't affect me very much. There are idiots out there, always were, always will be, I knew that already and can't do much to change that.

If I'd been Asian I'm sure they'd have added a "— chink!" for good measure. Wouldn't have changed much. (I don't subscribe to the "OMG it's now a racist hate crime, much more grave!" viewpoint; it's the same thing, it's just idiots using whatever insult is available that happens to match their random target.)

If I had pinged their gaydar I'm sure they'd have added a "— —!", if I'd been a woman I'm sure they'd have added a "— —!", if I'd been black I'm sure they'd have added a "— —!", if I'd been fat I'm sure they'd have added a "— lard-—!". Not exactly personal... not such a big deal (IMO). An insult's power to hurt you is only proportional to the esteem you have for the person it comes from, and in that case, the correct amount is "absolutely none".

I agree with the teen in the video, though my message to them would have been slightly different: you're just losers who need to try to bring down others to feel slightly less bad about how much of a loser you are. I'm sorry for you.

I have brought it up 3 times on this forum to no response that I as a white male I have had 3 very scary “racial” incidents in Vancouver.

One was driving one day when a car or Iranians came up next to me saying they had a — and were going to shoot my white —. This was for no reason and they tailgated me until by chance we went through a police roadblock and I told the police what was happening.

Second was walking with my Japanese girlfriend (now wife) in South Van at night and a group of South Asians said they were going to — her “Chink” —. That was scary as —.

And then the big one where outside of a night club where my brother was beaten so bad by a group of South Asian men he had to stay in the hospital for a week.

But you know what, college campus shitheads are telling is now that only white people can be racist now due to the new definition of racism!

Not denying that there are systematic problems when it comes to race and other minority issues in culture (where in the world doesn’t have that) and that we shouldn’t try to work against that, but the PC left has gone so far off the deep end that they are evening turning left leaning people such as me sour to their cause.

I bet all three of those major incidents could be talked away as non racist by some blowhard SJW.

I am sure this will be ignored again.

Also being Italian heritage is quite the interesting quagmire in that up until only a few decades ago you weren’t really white enough to have the white privilege but now you are too white to not be part of the “always privileged.”

[lio45]

I really think we have to uncouple the fact that people will on occasion insult other people, with the perception that there's a "systemic" problem there.

Consider an — who wants to insult a smart, rich, highly-educated, tall, handsome, ~30 years old cis WASP man who's in great physical shape and has a perfect body, and who happens to be homosexual. What angle do you think he's going to use for his insult?

The real question here is: can you be successful in life in this society while being gay? Can you aspire to becoming mayor? CEO of a major company? Prime Minister? The answers are yes, yes and yes. We're a ~0% homophobic society, "systemically".

For another example, consider how intense the teasing of a "carrot head" kid can be at school. It can be pretty bad. Again, the important question is, can a red-headed man become Prime Minister? Is there actually a glass ceiling there or not? The clear answer is "no". Doesn't mean no one will ever tease you or insult you.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I have brought it up 3 times on this forum to no response that I as a white male I have had 3 very scary “racial” incidents in Vancouver.

One was driving one day when a car or Iranians came up next to me saying they had a — and were going to shoot my white —. This was for no reason and they tailgated me until by chance we went through a police roadblock and I told the police what was happening.

Second was walking with my Japanese girlfriend (now wife) in South Van at night and a group of South Asians said they were going to — her “Chink” —. That was scary as —.

And then the big one where outside of a night club where my brother was beaten so bad by a group of South Asian men he had to stay in the hospital for a week.

But you know what, college campus shitheads are telling is now that only white people can be racist now due to the new definition of racism!

Not denying that there are systematic problems when it comes to race and other minority issues in culture (where in the world doesn’t have that) and that we shouldn’t try to work against that, but the PC left has gone so far off the deep end that they are evening turning left leaning people such as me sour to their cause.

I bet all three of those major incidents could be talked away as non racist by some blowhard SJW.

I am sure this will be ignored again.

Also being Italian heritage is quite the interesting quagmire in that up until only a few decades ago you weren’t really white enough to have the white privilege but now you are too white to not be part of the “always privileged.”

Your brother's case is actually MUCH worse than a meaningless "insult of opportunity". Now that's an actual racist incident.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by lio45

Your brother's case is actually MUCH worse than a meaningless "insult of opportunity". Now that's an actual racist incident.

Tell me about hit, tell HIM about it.

Yet we have only ever heard crickets.

Even on this forum you are the first to ever respond to that incident.

Couldn’t imagine the response if the races were reversed.

This is a big part why I am done with “woke” political —.

I heard it’s at the point now where some companies have people come in and to pass the course employees must confess their “internal racism.” This — is getting creepy and near cult like status. Hell, it even comes with original sin being white and or male these days.

People keep saying it’s just the “extreme fringe” but that fringe has a huge sway in post secondary institutions and the entertainment industry.

Also you always see videos of white people being racist — in the media, but there are many incidents I have seen of many other ethnicities doing the same that don’t get the same publication (not doing whataboutism, but have noticed a bias in what incidents are picked up by the Guardian, Huffington Post, etc... and which are not). And the rare time a non white person being racist is publicized, their race is often not mentioned in the headline. Such as the black woman yelling at Mexicans to go home, the Asian guy yelling at two black men to leave the neighborhood, or even the fact the 2 of the 4 cops involved with the George Floyd incident aren’t even white! (Let me rephrase that, as victims 2 of the 4 wouldn’t be white, the same way Zimmerman became fully white after becoming a perpetrator.)

[savevp]

Metro-One is hardly alone in his examples. I myself spent three harrowing years as one of two white people in a school in Brampton in the '90s. We were daily targets, and experienced even physical attacks a couple times. But, we moved on.

I didn't have Twitter at the time but would like to think if I did, I wouldn't have logged on to wallow in the pity of the virtuous woke crowd. I certainly wouldn't have expected airtime on the CBC. Not that either option would be available to me as a white male. I'd like to think my first hand education in stoicism has been valuable in my career and life. Racism exists on all sides, and people of all races rise above it regularly. Systemic interpersonal racism exists too, including anti-White. For cases like the news story from above, either people deal with it and overcome, or they turn to complaining and self-pity. Like interpersonal racism, it's a personal choice.

To be clear, I'm not referring to racial violence or that type of thing. Rather more the CBC staffer who couldn't handle Wendy Mesley using a certain word or the folks who become traumatised by the existence of the Monarchy. I believe we've entered a 'boy who cried racism' phase where moderate people are being driven away by increasingly ludicrous demands. My wife, who thinks Jagmeet Singh is too conservative, has reached a point of exasperation with BLM and their ilk. It's not even progressivism now, they just love the power they've been given and the freedom to attack the civilisation they inhabit.

[Metro-One]

Exactly, I also want to add that in now way do I want to wallow in being a victim, just want to fight against the fucked direction the modern left is moving with identity politics and social justice, to the extreme now where they are preaching thy only white people can be racist. — that! This type of —, along with countless accusations of “cultural appropriation” etc... is only further dividing people and making racial relations worse.

I am worried where this will end up.

It’s actually to the point where I feel my half Japanese son will have a better life in Japan racially (despite all of Japan’s classic racial problems) than Canada where he will be taught all sorts of — about identity and being a victim etc...

To be honest, growing up as a child in a very open household, in the end it was the left that taught me racism and bigotry. Quite ironic actually.

As a white half Italian child I grew up watching Fresh Prince and Family Matters, yes they dealt with racial issues, but those were secondary to just being about family, and that’s how I saw them. To me the fact they were black was never ever an issue. I guess these days watching such shows is cultural appropriation?

I would hate to see how those shows would be made today...

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by rousseau

If, as is common for those on the "Palestinian side," this is used to suggest that the Palestinians have a greater claim to Israel than the Jews do, can this logic be extended to suggest that Europeans have a greater claim on North America than the indigenous peoples do?

Because the analogy is striking.

(South America doesn't fit so neatly into the analogy due to the majority mestizo population)

Of course not. Only White people have agency and therefore only White people can be regarded as moral agents capable of choosing between right and wrong.

Keep in mind two basic rules before you get cancelled and lose your livelihood:
- Only White people and White-adjacent peoples (including Jews) can be held responsible for their conduct
- Muslims can never do anything wrong, ever

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I guess where we disagree is the original insinuation. Whereas Palestinians have been marginalized on their own territory (rather like our Natives), the Quebecois have a geographically coherent, viable entity where they are the overwhelming majority.


But I can see that people would rather split hairs and argue semantics, which is pointless.

Well if Quebec was terrorizing Canada then maybe Quebec, too, would have to be restrained through force. In fact, Canada declared an emergency when the FLQ was engaging in relatively minor (relative to radical Jihadi terrorists in Palestine) forms of terrorism.

Palestinians made their bed, now they should sleep in it.

They were given many chances to accept generous partition proposals but they refused. Instead, they allied with their fellow Arab Muslims to gang up on Israel multiple times, with the stated goal of throwing the Jews into the Sea. Each time, they got their deservedly destroyed and each time, understandably, the partition proposals became less favorable.

Arab Muslims have like 30 countries to choose from. Almost all of those countries participated in a silent ethnic cleansing of Christians and Jews over the past several decades.

Unfortunately Western liberal oikophobes refuse to acknowledge this ethnic cleansing.

[Acajack]

Wow. All of this happened whiIe I was lounging by the pool this afternoon!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wow. All of this happened whiIe I was lounging by the pool this afternoon!

Well I hope you feel bad about it! Most BIPOC people in this country don't have pools.

So privileged

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Well I hope you feel bad about it! Most BIPOC people in this country don't have pools.

So privileged

— de marde...

[p_xavier]

Anyone else (speaking as a minority) actually feels after all of this thread that basically racism is just anger at people who follows bad stereotypes?

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by lio45

Did you ever stop and think maybe it's the other way around? That I'm successful because I'm thick-skinned and can shrug these things off rather than let them demoralize me, instead of suggesting the only reason I can afford to act thick-skinned and not wallow in self-pity is that I'm apparently "privileged" in the first place?

Given your response to the word "privilege", I'm guessing you might not be as thick-skinned as you'd like to believe. The delusion that you would be thick-skinned in a circumstance you've never experienced and never will experience is part of your privilege. For you, it's a hypothetical, a thought exercise.

I'm going to share a personal experience with you. Before you read it, I need you to understand that this isn't an argument for me. I'm not trying to win or score points. Tone is lost in this medium, so I'm asking you to keep the spirit with which it's intended in mind.

In your post up-thread, you casually used a slur that's been hurled at me countless times. People who've spat that slur at me have, on several occasions, accompanied it with violence or the threat of violence. So when someone yells that word at me in the streets, my response is emphatically not self-pity; rather, it's a visceral response to a very real potential threat to my safety.

I have a lot of privilege myself. There's a lot I don't understand, a lot I can't really ever understand completely, a lot that is and always will be to me observational or hypothetical rather than experiential. That's what privilege is. It doesn't mean I haven't had challenges in life for reasons x, y or z. It doesn't mean I'm immoral, amoral or morally less than someone without access to those various forms of privilege. It does, however, challenge each of us to cultivate empathy, humility and an awareness of our own limitations.

[savevp]

To tie the above post in with Metro-One's comments on experiencing anti-White racism, which kicked off the day's discussion here... Perhaps the issue isn't the existence of privilege but the assumption that all X race have privilege and all Y race are victims.

I was a white kid who was — fearful for my wellbeing for a couple years of school and who faced intense racism, mostly from Sikh and Arab kids. Do I qualify as having relevant experience or is it hypothetical because I am 'privileged?' You'll pardon the scepticism I seem to share with Lio about the concept of privilege.

And while I can empathise with you, wg, about the visceral reaction certain terms may trigger, I also sympathise with the lone white kid who would get picked on trying to join lunchtime basketball games at the community centre in Rexdale or Surrey. And I sympathise with that kid when he grows up and is told he's some kind of oppressor and his experiences are invalid.

That kid is me, and countless others, and it's why I struggle mightily to accept the sudden tendency to divide the world on racial lines and categorise into victims and oppressors. No race is monolithic, no racial group contains a unanimity of experience, and I don't think people should be using someone's race as an excuse to silence and demean them. I'd call that racism myself.