Canadian Maps and Graphics

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by jamincan

The problem with dot maps is that it shows all density above a certain amount the same.

Whether it's a dotmap or color shading of an area to portray population density, it's definitely hard to get it perfect.

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Who knew that passing through a city was stalking... Good thing Lio didn't stop in Toronto on his drive across the country - wouldn't want to have to worry about a "stocker" here!

Haha, I wonder if 100% of SSP forumers that are or have ever lived in Toronto have Lio blocked because of his incessant harassment to their community too, like 100% Maple Creek's SSP forumers population has

I won't feel threatened for a second even if I still lived there and even if I was still a teenager I still wouldn't call stranger danger on anyone on SSP, I know that in reality people's behaviour online would likely be different in person.
The unfortunate thing is it wouldn't have been hard to arrange for someone from visitor centre in town or even the museum to roll out the red carpet for anyone interested in visiting town had I known.

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I've never seen a nice looking Sears store anywhere in western Canada.

But Lio, there is a nice park across the street from sears that would contribute to the vibe you're looking for.

The unique thing is right beside that Sears centre in town was one of the best cafes and looked great after the building was renovated.

On SouthWestTV news there's a segment, I think middle of this particular episode, about the Star Cafe's history.


http://otime.ca/2018/08/20/rattlesnake-program-keeps-visitors-and-snakes-safe/

Originally Posted by isaidso

In all fairness, Maple Creek isn't playing the 'cowboy culture' card; it's the culture of that region. Cowboys/ranching was prevalent throughout the West.... and still is. Maple Creek could look just like Tombstone if they removed all the crap vinyl siding, etc.

I think people maybe think Maple Creek is suppose to keep up appearances for the benefit of tourists like as if it's a WestWorld version of an amusement park or something (if tourists want animatronic automatons to entertain you in old west fashion go to the Tunnels of Moose Jaw couple hours down the highway instead).

In reality there's a lot of reasons buildings were built the way that they were in town and other towns in Saskatchewan as a whole. There're still quite a few brick buildings still in town.
Redcliff, AB is not that far from Maple Creek and it was I believe the biggest brick manufacturer in Western Canada until a tornado destroyed the plant and the business moved to Med Hat before finally shuttering. With transportation of goods by railway decreasing through the years, transportation of brick became more expensive especially compared to wood.

As far as rejuvenating current buildings, there have been some projects in Maple Creek like the million dollar renovations to the Commercial Hotel in the 2000s but a flash flood caused damage to a lot of the town including this project's viability.




What did get done renovated looked great though.







It's not like Prairie towns don't try to have curb appeal but a lot of rural towns are just trying to keep businesses profitable.

https://www.swiftcurrentonline.com/local/maple-creek-named-a-national-communities-in-bloom-champion

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Haha, I wonder if 100% of SSP forumers that are or have ever lived in Toronto have Lio blocked because of his incessant harassment to their community too, like 100% Maple Creek's SSP forumers population has

Your ignore list is a mile long, it's definitely not just me

The unfortunate thing is it wouldn't have been hard to arrange for someone from visitor centre in town or even the museum to roll out the red carpet for anyone interested in visiting town had I known.

How were I supposed to to let you know if you have me on ignore...?

BTW, the fact that Maple Creek has become (in)famous in SSP's Canada Section is strictly your own doing. After all those years of discussing this town (even though mostly jokingly), since I was going to pass nearby, I figured, I can't not check it out. As you may have noticed, there are other SSPers who mentioned they were seeing pics of famous Maple Creek for the very first time!

It's a perfectly fine Prairie town IMO... but still one that could easily be greatly improved, in terms of aesthetics (and other such chichi notions). I have to say that I greatly preferred Tombstone, Arizona (I loved my visit, spent two days there) to Maple Creek.

The unique thing is right beside that Sears centre in town was one of the best cafes and looked great after the building was renovated.

As you could see from my photothread, I checked this building out. It's for sale, and I'm always interested in new real estate The listing says it was built in 1898, so, it's been a witness of almost all of Maple Creek's history.

(The Star Cafe doesn't exist anymore, as I'm sure you know. That building is vacant now.)

I think people maybe think Maple Creek is suppose to keep up appearances for the benefit of tourists like as if it's a WestWorld version of an amusement park or something

No, the point was definitely more like "why would you want to look ugly when you could instead look nice with only a little bit of effort?"

For example, the old core of Quebec City looks nice not only "for the benefit of tourists", but actually for the benefit of absolutely everyone who likes nice cities, locals included. If the entirety of the old core looked like that ex-Sears building in Maple Creek, no one would benefit from that - we'd all be losers.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

On SouthWestTV news there's a segment, I think middle of this particular episode, about the Star Cafe's history.

Something that has always fascinated me: buildings that are old enough that they were built in a different jurisdiction.

They're pretty rare. If I bought that one in Maple Creek (it was built in the North-West Territories; that building predates Saskatchewan), it would only be my second such building (joining my Lévis duplex that predates Quebec, having been built on British soil in the colony of Lower Canada).



(BTW, still think it's way too pricey.)

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

Something that has always fascinated me: buildings that are old enough that they were built in a different jurisdiction.

There are still French-era buildings in NS, which means (on paper) pre-1713 (although the British captured some areas before then) in peninsular NS. For example de Gannes-Cosby House in Annapolis Royal was built in 1708.

[lio45]

Yeah, they exist, but good luck trying to get one of those...

I did at one point consider a French-era built multiplex in the Lower Town of QC (stone building, 5 stories, built in 1750) but the cap rate wasn't very good. I cannot imagine making a viable business case for acquiring/operating any Nova Scotia building dating back to New France!

I've always dreamed of having a French-era building some day; I absolutely love old buildings. The most realistic way of achieving this would be with a country house on Orleans Island (there are some from the 1600s; first half of the 1700s are even more common; there's always a handful for sale at any given time, I'm sure it's the case now). From a Vancouver point of view, they're actually pretty damn affordable - probably half the price of the cheapest, smallest, moldiest set of four walls and a roof currently for sale within Van city limits right now.

[MolsonExport]

It will henceforth be stockers in Maple Creek. Added to the SSP lore along with stagnant, landlocked Montreal. And Miketorontonialisms with his bus routes. And the number of things to do in Okotoks. And the Miltonization of the universe (and that date in 2096 when Milton is bigger than Tokyo).

What became of that famous thread full of SSP Canada "chestnuts"? Remember the whole blow up about how world famous the Calgary Stampede was? "Anyone on the planet that hasn't heard about the Calgary Stampede is just plain ignorant" said some now banned forumer (J.Will, I recall).

[lio45]

I might cross the country again before too long, this time I'll be putting Okotoks on my check list. I'll take a few pics of the downtown (if there even is one) and, obviously, try to find a few things to do there.

Stocker Alert for Okotoks!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yeah, they exist, but good luck trying to get one of those...

I did at one point consider a French-era built multiplex in the Lower Town of QC (stone building, 5 stories, built in 1750) but the cap rate wasn't very good. I cannot imagine making a viable business case for acquiring/operating any Nova Scotia building dating back to New France!

They are more curiosities that you can visit rather than investment opportunities. However, a lot of these buildings were in disrepair at one point and got promoted by enthusiast owners (in the 80's there were tons of decrepit very historic buildings). In some cases nobody remembered the origin of the building. There was a 1699 French mission building in Avon NS like this. There are probably other old underappreciated buildings around.

Real estate in almost all of Canada is pricey now. It has all crept up, even if it's not as extreme as Vancouver. Then again some cities do have investment opportunities even if the base prices are high, e.g. the plain wooden box might sell for $350,000 but then fetch $550,000 after a nice restoration.

Here's an example from Lunenburg, NS. $750,000 (sold in 2013 for $265,000; maybe this is an absurd list price?): https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/21763912/166-pelham-street-lunenburg-lunenburg (I guess a bit more suited for the real estate thread.)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Remember the whole blow up about how world famous the Calgary Stampede was? "Anyone on the planet that hasn't heard about the Calgary Stampede is just plain ignorant" said some now banned forumer

Wasn't that Allan83? (Whose main claim to fame, IMO, will always be "everyone who's honest will have to admit that the Alberta Tarsands are the cleanest form of energy known to man".)

[lio45]

Looking forward to being a "Stockotoker", next time I cross the Prairies!

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's a perfectly fine Prairie town IMO... but still one that could easily be greatly improved, in terms of aesthetics (and other such chichi notions). I have to say that I greatly preferred Tombstone, Arizona (I loved my visit, spent two days there) to Maple Creek.

...

No, the point was definitely more like "why would you want to look ugly when you could instead look nice with only a little bit of effort?"

For example, the old core of Quebec City looks nice not only "for the benefit of tourists", but actually for the benefit of absolutely everyone who likes nice cities, locals included. If the entirety of the old core looked like that ex-Sears building in Maple Creek, no one would benefit from that - we'd all be losers.

Granted, I haven't visited Tombstone, but from what I see in photos, it reminds me a lot of Skagway, which I hated, btw. It looks great on the surface, but it's all skin deep and everything is just over-priced knick knacks and restaurants for the cruise ship industry. It might as well have been the Klondike section of an amusement park anywhere in the world. FWIW, Dawson City seemed to balanced this out a lot better and still manages to feel like an authentic town to me, but it also nowhere near as pretty.

When a town's economy is built on tourism there is a clear benefit to sprucing things up and making it look nice for visitors. When a town is prosperous, it's inevitable that businesses will also reflect that prosperity or lose out to the ones that do. But for a town like Maple Creek, that's really just a local hub, there's not much incentive to Disney-fy like there is in more tourist-oriented places. The proof is in the pudding - that Star Cafe would look fantastic just about anywhere, but clearly that wasn't enough to entice people from the other local coffee places that lack the curb appeal and yet still remain open.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Sad to say, that looks like every main street in every small town across Alsaskatoba. Some small towns were able to get some substantial brick buildings built back in the 1920's. But the depression, the war and then the rural exodus in the 70's resulted in what you see in Maple Creek.

Most prairie towns are utilitarian to the extreme. But there is the odd exception... I was in Morden, MB on the weekend and I was pleasantly reminded of their nice, tidy, well kept main drag (Stephen St) with a good variety of businesses. None of the buildings are architecturally amazing but put them all together and they add up to more than the sum of their parts. It's a nice, walkable strip and it's about as good as a non-tourist town gets in Manitoba. I would imagine that AB/SK have a few exceptional towns like this.

Then there are places like Gimli which are also attractive but it's mainly on the backs of tourism/cottagers so it's a bit of an exception.

Arborg, near where my dad is from, is a typical prairie town where every building that went up since roughly 1930 feels like it was inspired architecturally by sheds.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Something that has always fascinated me: buildings that are old enough that they were built in a different jurisdiction.
.)

I betcha there are buildings in Europe that were in 3-4 or maybe even 5 different "countries" during the 20th century alone.

Also people who live in the same house their entire lives but were residents of multiple "countries" during their lifetimes.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by lio45

Wasn't that Allan83? (Whose main claim to fame, IMO, will always be "everyone who's honest will have to admit that the Alberta Tarsands are the cleanest form of energy known to man".)

Ah, yes, I momentarily forgot about the immensely disagreeable Allan83, whom I believe slithered into SSP again under several aliases.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by jamincan

Granted, I haven't visited Tombstone, but from what I see in photos, it reminds me a lot of Skagway, which I hated, btw. It looks great on the surface, but it's all skin deep and everything is just over-priced knick knacks and restaurants for the cruise ship industry. It might as well have been the Klondike section of an amusement park anywhere in the world. FWIW, Dawson City seemed to balanced this out a lot better and still manages to feel like an authentic town to me, but it also nowhere near as pretty.

When a town's economy is built on tourism there is a clear benefit to sprucing things up and making it look nice for visitors. When a town is prosperous, it's inevitable that businesses will also reflect that prosperity or lose out to the ones that do. But for a town like Maple Creek, that's really just a local hub, there's not much incentive to Disney-fy like there is in more tourist-oriented places. The proof is in the pudding - that Star Cafe would look fantastic just about anywhere, but clearly that wasn't enough to entice people from the other local coffee places that lack the curb appeal and yet still remain open.

I don't really agree with you on the "Disney-fication" argument. If you think about it, anything authentic can be said to be indistinguishable from a high-quality Disney imitation. You visit a medieval French castle? "Well, it could be a Disney set." Sure... but it's not. It's the real thing. So is Tombstone. Which is why it's fantastic. It's a time capsule of the 1800s "Wild" West.

The Oklahoma town I posted about earlier... is not and has never been a tourist destination. It's the little local hub for its immediate surroundings, an utilitarian town for the farmers and ranchers of the area. How come its Main Street looks 100x nicer than Canadian Prairie towns'?

I wonder why the Star Cafe closed. Maybe there's a specific story there. (I'd have been happy to have breakfast there, on my day in Maple Creek.)

In any case... I still think this town has potential, and even more so now that you guys have made it clear that intense ugliness is the norm in the Canadian Prairies. Restore the façades so that everything looks like the Star Cafe, and you can put signs on the TCH inviting travelers to stop and check out the "Gem of the Prairies"

[lio45]

Originally Posted by esquire

Most prairie towns are utilitarian to the extreme. But there is the odd exception...

Maple Creek could be this exception, if they wanted. The town is very accessible from the TCH, it could be turned into a bit of a tourist destination. (Cowboy-themed, of course.)

This specific market niche seems completely available and up for grabs... "Non-Ugly Prairie Town"

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I betcha there are buildings in Europe that were in 3-4 or maybe even 5 different "countries" during the 20th century alone.

Also people who live in the same house their entire lives but were residents of multiple "countries" during their lifetimes.

Good point. Ironically and amusingly, it's much more rare here than it is over there. We're newer, but we've also been way more stable politically.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I betcha there are buildings in Europe that were in 3-4 or maybe even 5 different "countries" during the 20th century alone.

Also people who live in the same house their entire lives but were residents of multiple "countries" during their lifetimes.

If you find that kind of thing interesting, you might like the book "A Time of Gifts". The author walked from the Netherlands to Istanbul via Central Europe in the 1930's, which at the time has just experienced the collapse of Austria-Hungary as was dealing with Nazi and communist uprisings (he arrives in Vienna as Nazis are fighting against the police and government). Many of the places he visited were basically gone 10 years later, and many of the people died in the war. During WWII he parachuted into occupied Crete, pretended to be a shepherd, and eventually managed to capture the German commander of the island.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

Good point. Ironically and amusingly, it's much more rare here than it is over there. We're newer, but we've also been way more stable politically.

Atlantic Canada is where most of the clashes between the British and French colonial empires happened. The invasion of Quebec was the final phase of a 50 year decline of the French American colonies.

France almost invaded the English colonies. They assembled the biggest ever New World fleet in the 1740's, the Duc D'Anville expedition, but got hit by bad weather and disease. The outcome of France capturing Boston and then negotiating for a border somewhere in the modern day US that would last until the late 1700's would have only taken a very small change in events. Maybe that would have even been enough for them to keep New Orleans and the Great Lakes/Mississippi watersheds.

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by jamincan

Granted, I haven't visited Tombstone, but from what I see in photos, it reminds me a lot of Skagway, which I hated, btw. It looks great on the surface, but it's all skin deep and everything is just over-priced knick knacks and restaurants for the cruise ship industry. It might as well have been the Klondike section of an amusement park anywhere in the world. FWIW, Dawson City seemed to balanced this out a lot better and still manages to feel like an authentic town to me, but it also nowhere near as pretty.

When a town's economy is built on tourism there is a clear benefit to sprucing things up and making it look nice for visitors. When a town is prosperous, it's inevitable that businesses will also reflect that prosperity or lose out to the ones that do. But for a town like Maple Creek, that's really just a local hub, there's not much incentive to Disney-fy like there is in more tourist-oriented places. The proof is in the pudding - that Star Cafe would look fantastic just about anywhere, but clearly that wasn't enough to entice people from the other local coffee places that lack the curb appeal and yet still remain open.

I tend to agree about Skagway too, after an hour of looking in shops I was ready to get back on the boat. Tombstone and Skagway's economy are built on tourism and America has 9 times as many people to support a niche old west town popularized in tv & movies for that tourism.

Maple Creek is twice the population of those two American towns so tourism won't likely be Maple Creek's main economic driver until a continues queue of bus loads of people come to Maple Creek and spend their money, which isn't likely to happen anytime soon since most Canadians turn up their noses at the thought of vacationing in the province.

Maple Creek's slow and steady increasing visits be redeveloping it's heritage sites such as the old Star Cafe & Grill and Commercial Hotel will help build the economy but the main bread and butter of the economy in town will be that it's a agriculture & service hub for the SouthWest of the province, not any disney-fication of the place.