DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[tommyboy733]

I found RiNo Art Park has unceremoniously opened! At 35th & Arkins, it includes the adaptive reuse of an industrial shell (distance center right) with lots of cool features.


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Cause nearby, Rev360 is wrapping up and i think its turning out really good.

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Some light activity continues at the Current. Looks like utility work. No excavation yet.

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[twister244]

Wow, nice find on the RiNo park.... I totally forgot about that and didn't realize they were already finished with it. From the pic, looks pretty cool. Will have to check it out next time I am over there.

[TakeFive]

It's a Done Deal

Central Park will replace Stapleton as the northeast neighborhood’s name

-----------

Originally Posted by tommyboy733

I found RiNo Art Park has unceremoniously opened! At 35th & Arkins, it includes the adaptive reuse of an industrial shell (distance center right) with lots of cool features.

Cause nearby, Rev360 is wrapping up and i think its turning out really good.

Some light activity continues at the Current. Looks like utility work. No excavation yet.

Thanks for posting all these great 'neighborhood' photos. Fun fun.

[jbssfelix]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I've got a crazy but good idea. There has to be a way to dedicate something to John Mosley.

From what I understand, the iconic Stapleton Air-Traffic-Control Tower was meticulously renovated. Why not create a City-owned non-profit to purchase the historic control tower and create a quasi-museum and restaurant (which could be leased out). Call it "Moser's Place"

Perhaps they could commission the Denver Botanic Gardens to create/maintain some of the exterior space - which could also promote the Botanic Gardens. The only hitch would be the necessary cost to add an elevator up to the tower which could be used as a bar or rentable meeting space. On the plus side $millions have already been spent on the existing renovation.

I think this is a wonderful idea, and I would be 100% behind this...especially since I'm not sure what in the world could successfully fill the unique space that used to be Punch Bowl Social.

[i4isoar]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

It is just an architectural flourish that doubles as a way of screening the rooftop mechanical.

Originally Posted by jbssfelix

Guessing they're probably hiding mechanicals behind the glass facade. Aka like the Independent in Austin...but uh less fugly.

Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. Though it is a pity none of our skyscrapers here have any rooftop observation decks, I could see that as a hugely profitable business venture (complete with rooftop bar) - in which case, a 25ft glass parapet would be the perfect safety barrier, so that drunk visitors can't simply climb over it.

And yeah, I agree, that parapet on The Independent looks terrible - and I'd even go so far as to say The Independent as a whole looks pretty terrible. I'll happily take another 1144 15th or 1999 Broadway over The Independent any day (though I actually quite like The Austonian, and if someone ever just copied-and-pasted that building into Denver, renamed it "The Denverite", etc., I think that would be a pretty respectable addition to the skyline).

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

I think we should honor Mosley. But I don’t want to live in Mosley.

Yep. Mosley as a person might be a hero and someone who's achievements are worth celebrating, but Mosley as a place just sounds terrible and uninspiring. I can picture it now: "where do you live?" "Mosley." "Mostly where?" "Mosley!" "Yes, mostly where?"

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Central Park is about as non contentious as you can get. It’s a welcome change. Central Park Blvd runs right through the middle of the neighborhood and is how motorists enter from I-70. The A-line stop is already called “Central Park”. And to top it off, we have a massive park situated in the middle of the neighborhood named “Central Park”. This is a no brainer. People in City Park love their association with the park. So, eventually, will Central Park.

My personal conspiracy theory is that the voters chose something else, but the city fathers rigged the election to favor "Central Park" so that they didn't have to spend extra changing the street signs, the RTD maps, etc.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Stapleton is a massive neighborhood. I'm surprised Northfield hasn't been split off already. Split in two, they would still be pretty large neighborhoods.

Now that you point it out, I think the best plan would have been to just split up Stapleton into 4 or 5 smaller neighborhoods, and then name those ones "Central Park", "Northfield", "Skyview", "Concource", "Mosley", "McClane", "North Aurora", etc. That way, everyone wins. Based on that map, it looks like Stapleton/Central Park is easily bigger than the CBD, DUS, Civic Center, Cap Hill, Auraria, etc. combined, so it could just as easily have been subdivided into an equivalent number of neighborhoods.

[CONative]

Mosley has already been honored with a public K-8 school named after him and his wife in Aurora.

BTW, Central Park is NOT a done deal yet. Step 1 has just been completed to determine the community vote. The SUN official vote is still to come at the end of the month and then the MCA and city has to do their part to adopt the name. There is still a possibility that people at the SUN meeting do not vote for what the community voted for -- which would just be scandalous and wrong after the whole process. Not a done deal if there are any unforeseen kinks.

Also, there are already 12 sub-neighborhoods within Stapleton/Central Park (Eastbridge, Central Park North, Central Park West, South End, North End, Willow Park East, 29th Ave, Westerly Creek, Bluff Lake, Beeler Park, Conservatory Green, Wicker Park) that are all about 2000-3000 residents on average. They have their own FB groups and such, and it also correlates with the 12 HOA/MCA delegate representative borders. Dividing the larger neighborhood organization (one north and one south) would be difficult and probably not worth the trouble with the HOA/MCA and all the governing/operating principles.

[TakeFive]

Props for Progress

I can still recall the kerfuffle (by some) over destroying this and that as apposed to a vision that improvements could actually mean better.

Tentative public reopening date set for City Park Golf Course
July 30, 2020 Lily O'Neill - BusinessDen

Lily's a new face to me; does anybody know how to pronounce "Lily"?

A reminder of what was done.

The course was closed in November 2017 for $45 million worth of improvements spurred by the need for water detention areas to help protect nearby neighborhoods from flooding. The project included a new layout for the 18-hole, par-71 course, a full driving range, a four-hole course for the First Tee of Denver youth program and a new clubhouse with event space.

The new 22,1555-square-foot clubhouse has a 10,840-square-foot basement for cart storage designed by Johnson Nathan Strohe. It features a west-facing patio and floor-to-ceiling windows with views of the mountains and Denver skyline — “one of the best in the city,” Rethlake said.

How did it turn out?

Rethlake said. “We’ve done a great job of blending the old with the new, and some of the lifelong players of the golf course that have checked it out love it. I’m excited to give everyone the chance to play on it and get their feedback.”

Additionally, renovations involved opening a 102 inch pipe to create a stormwater detention area and a water quality channel that snakes through the golf course and adds water elements to at least four holes. “Before we only had one water feature,” Rethlake said.

Green space is good. Improvements to flood control is good. New trees is good. New water elements is good. What's not to like?

Has anybody been here?


Credit Lily O'Neill/BisinessDen

Did somebody previously mention Choice Market’s? This new one is at 2200 E. Colfax Ave. Interesting article and concept.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by CONative

Also, there are already 12 sub-neighborhoods within Stapleton/Central Park (Eastbridge, Central Park North, Central Park West, South End, North End, Willow Park East, 29th Ave, Westerly Creek, Bluff Lake, Beeler Park, Conservatory Green, Wicker Park) that are all about 2000-3000 residents on average. They have their own FB groups and such, and it also correlates with the 12 HOA/MCA delegate representative borders. Dividing the larger neighborhood organization (one north and one south) would be difficult and probably not worth the trouble with the HOA/MCA and all the governing/operating principles.

It's always a little cute when suburbanites pretend like they live in actual places with distinctive identities, not soulless bits of sprawl. I am sure Northridge and Westridge ("neighborhoods" of Highlands Ranch) are as distinctive as Central Park North and Central Park West are. Except at least they had a ridge.

Should've just handed this to the residents of Stapleton, would've greatly simplified the process: https://denverinfill.com/2006/09/guide-to-suburban-denver-subdivision.html

[rds70]

‘We’re in purgatory’: Carmen Court owners speak out ahead of Landmark hearing: https://businessden.com/2020/08/03/were-...ers-speak-out-ahead-of-landmark-hearing/


Proposed development:

[twister244]

If folks in the city are so keen on designating that condo building as historic, then there needs to be a dollar figure to reimburse those owners for the money they would have received from Hines in a sale. To step in an prevent the owners of the units in that building from collectively selling is beyond insane. Nothing wrong with making a building historic if there aren't innocent bystanders or unintended consequences. However, seeing as Hines's design looks fairly good here, I will plant my flag in the category of being opposed to the designation, unless there is proper compensation to the owners. This is coming from a fellow condo owner as well....

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by twister244

If folks in the city are so keen on designating that condo building as historic, then there needs to be a dollar figure to reimburse those owners for the money they would have received from Hines in a sale. To step in an prevent the owners of the units in that building from collectively selling is beyond insane. Nothing wrong with making a building historic if there aren't innocent bystanders or unintended consequences. However, seeing as Hines's design looks fairly good here, I will plant my flag in the category of being opposed to the designation, unless there is proper compensation to the owners. This is coming from a fellow condo owner as well....

Source


City inks deal with affordable housing developer for 84 homes in Baker
Aug 3, 2020 By David Sachs/Denverite

420 W. Cedar Ave.


Courtesy Department of Housing Stability via Denverite


Denver Architecture Foundation Launches Free Audio Tour of Downtown Denver
August 3, 2020 By Mile High CRE


Historic Sugar Building, courtesy of DAF via Mile High CRE

On Aug. 4, Denver Architecture Foundation (DAF) is releasing two significant audio tour journeys, free and accessible at denveraudiotours.org, featuring 24 locations historically significant to Denver and highlighting more than a century of the Mile High City’s architecture and cultural history. This project was paid for in part by the History Colorado State Historical Fund.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Does anyone know if the Front Range Growth Cap made the November ballot?

[The Dirt]

It did not, but it'll be back next time around.

[twister244]

Dirt beat me to it - https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/Initiatives/titleBoard/index.html

WITHDRAWN

Honestly though, I think if it were brought back again, it would face headwinds. Maybe communities closer to the foothills would be for this, but many folks across the FR are probably against this sort of measure. I think the majority of folks understand this is an inherently stupid idea....

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by twister244

Dirt beat me to it - https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/Initiatives/titleBoard/index.html

WITHDRAWN

Honestly though, I think if it were brought back again, it would face headwinds. Maybe communities closer to the foothills would be for this, but many folks across the FR are probably against this sort of measure. I think the majority of folks understand this is an inherently stupid idea....

Except the voters in Lakewood didn't think that...granted it was a botched election the week of July 4th when only old timers are still at home, but still, it passed. I'm moving to Switzerland if the damn growth measure passes one day. I'll take the Colorado of Europe over Colorado if my neighbors are really that cruel and selfish, even if my new locale prevents me from buying a home.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by twister244

Honestly though, I think if it were brought back again, it would face headwinds. Maybe communities closer to the foothills would be for this, but many folks across the FR are probably against this sort of measure. I think the majority of folks understand this is an inherently stupid idea....

Do you really think so? If it passed in Lakewood, I don't see why not in the rest of the Front Range. Lakewood is diverse place which I think is a good representative sample for the rest of the metro. It's got blue collar folks, semi-urbanites priced out of central Denver, typical suburbanites, decent Latino community. It's not a wealthy, lefty or exclusive Golden / Boulder type place.

I think pre-2020 it would have had a good chance of succeeding. However, it seems the Great Awokening has brought things like red-lining and NIMBY housing policy more into the national conversation, and so it might get more pushback now.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Do you really think so? If it passed in Lakewood, I don't see why not in the rest of the Front Range. Lakewood is diverse place which I think is a good representative sample for the rest of the metro. It's got blue collar folks, semi-urbanites priced out of central Denver, typical suburbanites, decent Latino community. It's not a wealthy, lefty or exclusive Golden / Boulder type place.

I think pre-2020 it would have had a good chance of succeeding. However, it seems the Great Awokening has brought things like red-lining and NIMBY housing policy more into the national conversation, and so it might get more pushback now.

Interesting comment. Checking it seems that Lakewood is more Dem-progressive than I realized. My dated recall is that west of Kipling it becomes more 'suburban' with a more 'independent-protective' profile. Zoning density isn't necessarily a partisan issue; it may be more non-partisan.

I can see where Lakewood would have a reactionary response to Denver; I can see more sensitivity to crime rates and homeless issues. Primarily, I'm not surprised that they simply want to 'preserve' what they have.

If Lakewood would simply define 'areas of change' allowing for more density and mixed use as an 'exception' to the growth limitations, chances are many would have a more favorable view. For example, allow more density 'X' distance from light rail. "Oh, in that area? Well that's fine."

[TakeFive]

It's very predictable that there will be post-pandemic changes in attitudes

Space-Starved Buyers Flock To Master-Planned Communities
July 29, 2020 By Dees Stribling, Bisnow National

In only a few months, the coronavirus pandemic, along with a side of unexpected social unrest in some places, has made people rethink urban living. That new fear of density has been boosting master-planned communities.

"This is the kind of thing we're seeing," Layne said. "A couple from a northeastern city Googled master-planned communities and one of the results was Bridgeland. Sight unseen, they leased an apartment here, and are now planning to buy a house. They thought now was the time for that kind of change."

The interest in master-planned communities in states like Nevada and Texas is more than just a reflection of the pandemic, Summerlin President Kevin Orrock said. "People are still looking to get away from high-tax, high cost-of-living places," he said. ""That isn't going to change."

This is why I often rant about not having unnecessary business-unfriendly taxes or excessive red tape requirements. When people are younger but maturing at some point they will assess their own budget priorities. When business chooses to expand and/or relocate costs are paramount - along with certain non-cost priorities.

The natural evolution of Millennials

Once one passes the age of 25 years old on their way to 30, typically a lot of growth in 'maturity' takes place. Many will have found the partner of their dreams and decide they want a family; they want to buy their own place.

When just out of curiosity they decide "Let's just go check it out" and drive out to the suburbs to find fenced in back yards for their children and pets they quickly fall in love. Others will decide "Nah, I don't won't to live this far out." Everybody is different.

Metro Denver is growing rapidly; is growing up and maturing

While we don't focus here on industrial-warehouse development it is the one segment that hasn't skipped a beat. It's still (relatively) HOT. While it will never reach the size of Phoenix, for example, Denver is large enough to support and have its own 'logistics' capacity. Ofc yesterday's 'warehouse' is today's 'fulfillment' center or just-in-time access to key industries or just provides better access to everyday nuts and bolts, celery and tomatoes.

There's a lot of 'industrial' development out east including nearby to I-70 and E-470. These industries provide solid, stable job opportunities even if nothing like tech-bro status. More affordable 'sprawl' only make sense for this part of the economic engine.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Do you really think so? If it passed in Lakewood, I don't see why not in the rest of the Front Range. Lakewood is diverse place which I think is a good representative sample for the rest of the metro. It's got blue collar folks, semi-urbanites priced out of central Denver, typical suburbanites, decent Latino community. It's not a wealthy, lefty or exclusive Golden / Boulder type place.

I think pre-2020 it would have had a good chance of succeeding. However, it seems the Great Awokening has brought things like red-lining and NIMBY housing policy more into the national conversation, and so it might get more pushback now.

I do actually. I don't think Lakewood voters are representative of the majority of folks who vote on this. You don't see massive new subdivisions going up all over Lakewood (despite how much growth the Nimbys there would like to claim). Yes, they've had some growth over the last decade, but nothing compared to Denver, Aurora, and other suburbs to the South, East, and North. Voters in those areas are more likely to have bought a new construction house and understand why putting a cap on growth would actually be detrimental to affordability. As much as folks want to think the entire FR is super liberal/progressive like the the Bay Area, Seattle, etc, we really aren't (see how Denver voted on the camping ban). We lean more libertarian here, and I feel like most of the NIMBY attitude is clustered closer to the foothills where folks got into a house a long time ago and don't want their quiet cul-de-sac with views being disturbed.

Maybe I am wrong here and off-base, but there's enough diversity in attitude/culture from one community here to the next that I simply don't believe that Boulder/Lakewood/Golden are anywhere close to representative of the entire Front Range.

[mhays]

I disagree that a rooftop observation deck would be hugely profitable.

Would it be popular? Maybe. The world is full of lightly-visited observation decks.

It would very likely be expensive if it had a couple dedicated elevators. Alternatively these visitors could mix with the office crowd, which would have its own challenges in security, insurance, and so on. A bar or restaurant could bring the office workers in, but a good observation deck lets you walk around the whole perimeter with your kids. Meanwhile it's hard to get people to keep coming back to an expensive place with a long elevator wait. And office workers don't throng expensive places either.

In short, this stuff is difficult and not a slam dunk regardless of the type.