Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I have heard rumors that many residents in Strathcona are going to stop paying their property tax as a protest and several businesses are planning a class action lawsuit against the city.

The threat is more than a rumour

Some Strathcona residents are considering withholding their property taxes to show their dismay at Vancouver’s handling of the growing homeless camp at Strathcona Park and its effect on their neighbourhood.

“The community feels very much feel abandoned by our elected representatives,” said Jamie MacLaren, a lawyer spearheading the initiative.

“The health and safety conditions of the community have deteriorated since the camp located in Strathcona Park. But even before that, it’s been a few years that there have been significant issues (in Strathcona), an upward trend in property crime and health and safety issues here.”

...

Both Lewis and MacLaren have sympathy for the homeless in the park. But they would like government to find real homes for them.

The idea behind withholding property tax is to organize Strathcona residents, which include homeowners, renters and the camp residents to apply pressure on all levels of government for a sanctioned and fully-supported camp somewhere in the city, said MacLaren.

“But not on park property that is quite scarce in the city right now.”

Lewis said the residents association met with representatives of the city and province Monday, including provincial ministers Shane Simpson and Melanie Mark.

“We sincerely hope our elected officials are listening,” she said. “(But) my sense is that they’re in no hurry to do anything.”

“I do object to the thought that the park board or city doesn’t care about Strathcona Park,” park board chair Camil Dumont said. “I think it’s quite an important park and something that has been highly on our radar. Very well used and well appreciated space.”

Strathcona Park was probably being used more than ever before at the start of the pandemic, with hundreds of local residents using the park during sunny days. But once the homeless camp set up on the southeast side of the park on June 16, neighbourhood use declined significantly.

...

The park board’s Dumont said any solution to the homeless camp issue will probably have to come from senior levels of government.

“Realistically the park board is not in the housing business,” he said.

“B.C. Housing is a provincial authority, and the city has a play in there to make as well. We all have to work together to figure out what to do.”

[Metro-One]

Man the Parks Board sounds like a rat.

“Housing is not our business”

Well it sure seems to be now that you have decided not to enforce your 7am curfew and allow permanent camps to set up and grow.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by rofina

I'm going to be very politically active this next election cycle. This is such a joke, I have so much to say, but I cant even type it out because I'm so disappointed and aggravated with the leadership we have.

The city has leaders? Mayor Kennedy has been hiding ever since being elected and there is zero leadership. Drug use is completely out of control in Vancouver.

This past Sunday I saw a junkie shooting up heroin at the back door of St. Paul's wearing a hospital gown and having an intravenous injection attached to his other hand. I guess he was on a break!

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Klazu

The city has leaders? Mayor Kennedy has been hiding ever since being elected and there is zero leadership. Drug use is completely out of control in Vancouver.

This past Sunday I saw a junkie shooting up heroin at the back door of St. Paul's wearing a hospital gown and having an intravenous injection attached to his other hand. I guess he was on a break!

Last time in Van last year I saw a guy over dosing right next to a kids playground in Yaletown with kids watching.

I could never imagine kids witnessing this in Japan.

I also saw human shit on the ground in a few places.

I actually feel embarrassed thinking of travelers seeing this.

When my in-laws visit Canada I might actually completely avoid taking them to downtown Vancouver. Just spend the time in Nelson and the Okanagan. Maybe taken them to the North Shore.

Not to add insult to injury, but a year ago or so a Japanese TV show went to Vancouver to do a travel bit, instead they ended up making a 10 minute piece highlighting the homeless problem. It was so embarrassing. Vancouver, a city 1/15th the size of Tokyo has a homeless problem beyond their comprehension...

[s211]

The cynic in me can almost guarantee that nothing will get done. You can thank cancel culture for that. Nobody wants to risk their job, livelihood or family by speaking up. Not when the SJWs use their CERB cheques to sharpen their pitchforks and knives.

Society is rotting. How ironic that the word social somehow got mashed with justice.

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Last time in Van last year I saw a guy over dosing right next to a kids playground in Yaletown with kids watching.

I could never imagine kids witnessing this in Japan.

I also saw human shit on the ground in a few places.

I actually feel embarrassed thinking of travelers seeing this.

When my in-laws visit Canada I might actually completely avoid taking them to downtown Vancouver. Just spend the time in Nelson and the Okanagan. Maybe taken them to the North Shore.

Not to add insult to injury, but a year ago or so a Japanese TV show went to Vancouver to do a travel bit, instead they ended up making a 10 minute piece highlighting the homeless problem. It was so embarrassing. Vancouver, a city 1/15th the size of Tokyo has a homeless problem beyond their comprehension...

Completely different paradigm they're speaking from. Japan has notoriously strict drug laws, and on top of that a criminal conviction rate of well over 99%. It's just almost literally impossible to "casually get into drugs" in the society. On top of that there is general societal pressures to conform to standards, and just a general respect for public spaces. It's not a perfect system by any means, just some of the reasons why things are different imo.

Surprisingly, I actually found it cheaper (albeit not easier) to find housing over in Tokyo. Famous for being land-challenged with tiny hotel rooms and capsule rooms, the rental market is rather robust. There's a whole assortment of issues related to renting and xenophobia, but apples to apples comparison. Finding a decent flat, accessible by transit to "downtown", is super reasonable on a modest income. Can't say the same for Vancouver.

That's not to say, homeless do not exist in Tokyo or Japan in general. You just need to look extra hard to find them.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by s211

The cynic in me can almost guarantee that nothing will get done. You can thank cancel culture for that. Nobody wants to risk their job, livelihood or family by speaking up. Not when the SJWs use their CERB cheques to sharpen their pitchforks and knives.

Society is rotting. How ironic that the word social somehow got mashed with justice.

Hence my question of how many people are actually willing to sign/speak up/donate.

Worse case for me I get laid off or something - luckily that's not a game changer for me like it could be for many people. And ultimately if this is the permanent path we have set, I'm out of here in 24-36 months anyway.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Klazu

The city has leaders? Mayor Kennedy has been hiding ever since being elected and there is zero leadership. Drug use is completely out of control in Vancouver.

This past Sunday I saw a junkie shooting up heroin at the back door of St. Paul's wearing a hospital gown and having an intravenous injection attached to his other hand. I guess he was on a break!

Its ridiculous. All of it is ridiculous.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by rofina

To be completely honest;

1. Self interest - I live in East Van, Hastings Sunrise - ish for reference. The spill over effect is real, and conditions are deteriorating across the City. B&E's, theft from cars, stolen bikes, etc. I would lie if I said that being more affected personally isn't a problem. Ignoring COVID - our building has gone from averaging 3-5 break in a year to one a month over the last 24 months or so.

2. This is becoming embarrassing. We can deal with this, there are real solutions but leadership is content passing the buck.

3. Guilt - I see the mental conditions and the mental decay in some of these people on a daily basis. I think it finally hit me emotionally that I'm complicit in enabling this tragedy by remaining silent. We have been fed this notion that somehow leaving people to rot on the streets and literally die is compassionate. Its literally perverted our views of what compassion is.

4. I don't want to be hypocrite. Too many of my friends, acquaintances, etc in the past left Vancouver for reasons that in my view could have been affected by them voicing their opinions in more meaningful/firm ways. I made life choices that make me a little less susceptible to conventional pressures.

5. We see where this ends - San Fran/LA. I don't want an App to tell me locations of human feces in the City. I want a city that has no human feces to worry about. I don't want typhoid and cholera outbreaks, I don't want open air stolen goods markets to become normalized.

These are not impossible goals - and before it really becomes completely untenable someone needs to speak up about this ongoing failure.

There is enough naivety left in me to feel that there are enough kind hearted people to care or at least enough self interested people to want more positive change before its actually too late.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The problem is, it is scary to speak out against it, because it seems once you do all those supporting voices on forums such as this seem to disappear, and then you left alone to hang out to dry against the social justice mob.

In this day and time it will always be scary to speak out. One of the main reasons why corruption gets away with its doings is that good people stand by and say nothing. However if you wanted to convey a message more influentially then all you have to do is use video content. Sometimes you can't just tell people that something's wrong, you have to show them.

Originally Posted by Sheba

The threat is more than a rumour

Good for them. Let's welcome these crooked politicians into the age of accountability starting with their pocket books!

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by scryer

Good for them. Let's welcome these crooked politicians into the age of accountability starting with their pocket books!

Your comment makes no sense. Taxpayers refusing to pay their taxes doesn't hurt any politicians 'pocket book'. It just means the City spends more money putting a lien for the unpaid taxes on the homes of the people refusing to pay. That costs the time of lawyers, and those costs are then paid collectively by all the City's taxpayers. I would also question you calling politicians 'crooked', and suggesting there's 'corruption' That suggests you think they're personally breaking a law, or somehow benefitting financially. Unless you can prove that, you might find a more accurate word. It doesn't help an argument to make false accusations.

As you're implying that the politicians aren't doing something you think they should be doing, then 'ineffective' might fit. Generally, the place that politicians face accountability is in an election. Getting press coverage about issues between elections is the other way of getting politician's attention - which is probably what the Strathcona residents threatening to withhold taxes are intending. (As property taxes aren't due until September, they haven't actually done anything yet).

[Prometheus]

If a complete about-face on policy does not take place immediately, Vancouver's historic core (which we should be protecting as a national heritage site, not sacrificing to failed policies) will go up in smoke or come crumbling down any day now, and this dreadful situation will continue to spread unabated throughout the rest of the city, to say nothing about the thousands of lives made worse or destroyed by the prevailing approach.

Anyone who continues to defend the prevailing policies (or any form of doubling down on the status quo), which have had their time and failed miserably, bringing us to this wretched state, the results are on you. The apologists own this and what happens next.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

The apologists own this and what happens next.

The apologists must think that they're still in the right, which boggles the mind.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Your comment makes no sense. Taxpayers refusing to pay their taxes doesn't hurt any politicians 'pocket book'. It just means the City spends more money putting a lien for the unpaid taxes on the homes of the people refusing to pay. That costs the time of lawyers, and those costs are then paid collectively by all the City's taxpayers. I would also question you calling politicians 'crooked', and suggesting there's 'corruption' That suggests you think they're personally breaking a law, or somehow benefitting financially. Unless you can prove that, you might find a more accurate word. It doesn't help an argument to make false accusations.

As you're implying that the politicians aren't doing something you think they should be doing, then 'ineffective' might fit. Generally, the place that politicians face accountability is in an election. Getting press coverage about issues between elections is the other way of getting politician's attention - which is probably what the Strathcona residents threatening to withhold taxes are intending. (As property taxes aren't due until September, they haven't actually done anything yet).

If you found that my post didn't resonate with you, you are more than welcome to say that as this is a forum for discussion.

Be offended if you like (I could care less) but I'm not going to tolerate some random digital stranger trying to police my posts and opinions by telling me what I should write. My opinions are mine and I will do with them what I please.

If you seriously think that the government vote to allow overnight camping in parks, that the city government's refusal to enforce bylaws that are there to protect the majority of the population (tax payers and working residents), the lack of arrests since the money laundering investigation in BC started in 2018, the BC government's willingness to spend $5 million on VIRTUAL mental health appointments that the homeless population would have trouble accessing, that 4.7 million dollars are anticipated on being spent on just urban planning (when Urban planners gross approximately $87k per year; and when it is just likely that they will just be putting up a colourful website with a box for public input due to the pandemic), and when the same policies on the DTES that have been employed for the last 30 years hasn't created a lick of positive change (and IMO makes the DTES a convenient place to virtue signal for); if all of this comes from an un-corrupted government body in your opinion then you are more than welcome to share your thoughts on that on this forum . Just know that even though I don't take umbrage from a different opinion, I would never under any circumstance try to muzzle or twist someone's vocabulary to try and sugar coat their voice when it comes from a place of authenticity.

Now let's get back to talking about the Strathcona favela...

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Anyone who continues to defend the prevailing policies (or any form of doubling down on the status quo), which have had their time and failed miserably, bringing us to this wretched state, the results are on you. The apologists own this and what happens next.

I agree. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Your comment makes no sense. Taxpayers refusing to pay their taxes doesn't hurt any politicians 'pocket book'. It just means the City spends more money putting a lien for the unpaid taxes on the homes of the people refusing to pay. That costs the time of lawyers, and those costs are then paid collectively by all the City's taxpayers. I would also question you calling politicians 'crooked', and suggesting there's 'corruption' That suggests you think they're personally breaking a law, or somehow benefitting financially. Unless you can prove that, you might find a more accurate word. It doesn't help an argument to make false accusations.

As you're implying that the politicians aren't doing something you think they should be doing, then 'ineffective' might fit. Generally, the place that politicians face accountability is in an election. Getting press coverage about issues between elections is the other way of getting politician's attention - which is probably what the Strathcona residents threatening to withhold taxes are intending. (As property taxes aren't due until September, they haven't actually done anything yet).

You are missing the point at best, and changing what the conversation should be about at worse.

We are so far past discussing semantics its not even in the rear view anymore.

This is the time for action, we still have a hope to make that positive action.

The next step after this will be desperate acts of violence against the homeless and ill when people start to go for the pitch forks to defend their property and rights.

I been preaching about the "Trump" vote and why people took the hook line sinker he threw out - desperation and promise of action. Its not complicated or new why populism works.

We are talking about the city descending into a drug fulled, lawless, feces covered, hole and you're talking about using the wrong word to describe the situation.

I don't care if its incompetence, corruption, ignorance, anything.

Fact is - we have government.
Fact is - things are getting measurably worse by EVERY standard.
Fact is - no one can justify defending status quo.
Fact is - if leadership is not to blame, then why bother having leadership?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by rofina

To be completely honest;

1. Self interest - I live in East Van, Hastings Sunrise - ish for reference. The spill over effect is real, and conditions are deteriorating across the City. B&E's, theft from cars, stolen bikes, etc. I would lie if I said that being more affected personally isn't a problem. Ignoring COVID - our building has gone from averaging 3-5 break in a year to one a month over the last 24 months or so.

2. This is becoming embarrassing. We can deal with this, there are real solutions but leadership is content passing the buck.

3. Guilt - I see the mental conditions and the mental decay in some of these people on a daily basis. I think it finally hit me emotionally that I'm complicit in enabling this tragedy by remaining silent. We have been fed this notion that somehow leaving people to rot on the streets and literally die is compassionate. Its literally perverted our views of what compassion is.

4. I don't want to be hypocrite. Too many of my friends, acquaintances, etc in the past left Vancouver for reasons that in my view could have been affected by them voicing their opinions in more meaningful/firm ways. I made life choices that make me a little less susceptible to conventional pressures.

5. We see where this ends - San Fran/LA. I don't want an App to tell me locations of human feces in the City. I want a city that has no human feces to worry about. I don't want typhoid and cholera outbreaks, I don't want open air stolen goods markets to become normalized.

These are not impossible goals - and before it really becomes completely untenable someone needs to speak up about this ongoing failure.

There is enough naivety left in me to feel that there are enough kind hearted people to care or at least enough self interested people to want more positive change before its actually too late.

Great points, and thanks for sharing! It is indeed sobering what is happening in this city. Speaking up is always a great step forward.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The threat is more than a rumour

I'm glad there are more like-thinkers these days. Funny that the threat of withholding paying taxes is now real in Strathcona, and I'm really glad about this too. I think downtown folks should also stop paying taxes unless the City cleans up Granville, Davie and East Hastings Streets.

Yesterday morning on my daily walk to work, I saw open drug use beside the newly acquired Howard and Johnson Hotel on Granville Street near Davie. There are also a lot of junkies at the back alleys and the newly constructed (already looking old and vandalized) bicycle parking cage beside the H&J hotel. What a disgrace. The province bought the property for the homeless using tax payer's money and then both them and the City just leave the area to decay?


For those living in or concerned about the Yaletown neighbourhood, this might be worth checking out:

https://www.facebook.com/greateryaletown/

Petition:
https://www.change.org/p/city-of-vancouv...-a262-4418-b849-755ad7b6237c?signed=true

[MIPS]

This seems to be escalating faster than I expected. Lets hope this is one-off.

Vancouver city councillor being threatened caught on video
A man in the Strathcona neighbourhood of Vancouver was caught on camera Friday threatening to stab a Vancouver city councillor.

In the video, provided by Strathcona resident Kimberly Allen who lives in the 800-block of Hawks, Vancouver city councillor Pete Fry is threatened by a man, believed to be a resident of the homeless encampment at Strathcona Park.
Allen says she asked a man to stop using drugs right outside her house, and he came at her. Fry, who lives in the neighbourhood and was out walking his dog, stepped in.

In the video, the man tells Fry he would “f—ing stab you, so quick” and accuses him of being a pedophile.

...

In an interview Friday, Allen said the man was just about to “shoot up” on her doorstep so she asked him to move on, and he stood up and leaned right into her, which scared her, and called her “a f—ing hoe.”

“I literally jumped out of the way,” she said. Then Fry “put his body” between her and the drug user, she said.

- https://vancouversun.com/news/vancouver-city-councillor-being-threatened-caught-on-video

[Vin]

Sadly, nothing is going to happen in this backward City unless there is collateral damage, like somebody actually got stabbed to death. All the overdoses and homeless deaths so far mean nothing. The City needs to enforce the laws and clear out everyone now. Go into the shelters and clean up, or go to jail: pick one. A park or sidewalk should never be a housing option.

[MIPS]

I was trying not to remind people quite grimly that it took a murder at the last camp before things really got taken seriously and even then, VPD didn't want officers going in without being in groups for their own safety.
A homeless camp in a first world country should never be allowed to become that dangerous. They can become large and I guess that's pretty much a slum by that point but if you're starting to become New York in the 70's it's time to consider a new plan.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by MIPS

This seems to be escalating faster than I expected. Lets hope this is one-off.

It's definitely getting fun around here. I've had two car break-in and a theft in 3 months, not to mention chasing off a few people casing my house in the middle of the night. I'm not sure what the optimists in the crowd were hoping for, but it's been pretty much as expected.

I like Pete, and I'm sad this happened to him, but it's somewhat of a relief that a higher profile incident happened which hopefully will prompt some action.