CF Pacific Centre Developments

[logan5]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Again, come back in 50 years and all this stuff you call ugly will be heritage and beautiful like that factory.

We are in an architectural dark age where everything is clad in cheap tacky glass. These buildings will never be worth any level of heritage designation.

Your statement is the equivalent of saying that Justin Beiber will be seen in the same light as Mozart, given enough time.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by logan5

We are in an architectural dark age where everything is clad in cheap tacky glass. These buildings will never be worth any level of heritage designation.

this is true i think as well. though i also question the longevity of these new buildings. will people really want to replace these curtain walls on a building that is 50/60yrs old? maybe on an office tower, but i don't see a strata wanting to do it.

we haven't really gotten to the point of needing to replace curtain walls, yet. i imagine it will be coming up in the next 10-20yrs soon though for most of yaletown.

anyone know how long a standard curtain wall lasts?

[TwoFace]

One of my rentals is 16 years old and we just voted to proceed with sealant replacement next summer.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

You can see the same forces leading to the redevelopment or 'updating' of existing buildings.
Whenever anyone says 'that looks dated' it should raise a red flag.

Exactly, hence my constant frustration whenever any significantly built and interesting buildings are slated to be torn down, especially those that are unique and can one day become Vancouver`s heritage structures. We have already lost quite a few recently, and I blame squarely on the City`s archaic development policies.

Originally Posted by officedweller

The building was added on to multiple times, so apparently the interior spaces did not flow well (would be crazy to see a floorplan!).
Apparently that was also a reason for the new build rather than adding on again.

If there is no demand for more room, then there wouldn't be any additions to the existing structure.

So much for the claim that Vancouver "did not need more hotel rooms" at a time when it was still a backwater. Isn't that kind of stupid reasoning also used today, such as emergency vehicles getting stuck on the viaducts, or that they would come down in a jiffy when there's an earthquake.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

this is true i think as well. though i also question the longevity of these new buildings. will people really want to replace these curtain walls on a building that is 50/60yrs old? maybe on an office tower, but i don't see a strata wanting to do it.

we haven't really gotten to the point of needing to replace curtain walls, yet. i imagine it will be coming up in the next 10-20yrs soon though for most of yaletown.

anyone know how long a standard curtain wall lasts?

Funny, you should go to any old European city and see their structures able to withstand centuries of wear and tear, conflicts including the two World Wars, or even natural disasters. And of course, we are Vancouver we couldn't even handle a beautiful 90-year-old heritage building. I suggest stratas to start saving up.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

And of course, we are Vancouver we couldn't even handle a beautiful 90-year-old heritage building.

Which 90-year-old heritage building? The hotel that was demolished on the CF Pacific Centre site (that this thread is about) was 33 years old when it was demolished in 1949 and hadn't been used as hotel since 1939. And that second Hotel Vancouver (completed in 1916) replaced one built in 1888, and a very fancy Italianate 1893 addition - so those were both less than 30 years old when they were torn down.

[Feathered Friend]

Originally Posted by Vin

Funny, you should go to any old European city and see their structures able to withstand centuries of wear and tear, conflicts including the two World Wars, or even natural disasters. And of course, we are Vancouver we couldn't even handle a beautiful 90-year-old heritage building. I suggest stratas to start saving up.

It's important to point out that the cities that bore the worst of the world wars, didn't have many / any surviving structures. (Let alone the human cost)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Warsaw#Warsaw's_rebuilding

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Which 90-year-old heritage building? The hotel that was demolished on the CF Pacific Centre site (that this thread is about) was 33 years old when it was demolished in 1949 and hadn't been used as hotel since 1939. And that second Hotel Vancouver (completed in 1916) replaced one built in 1888, and a very fancy Italianate 1893 addition - so those were both less than 30 years old when they were torn down.

I was saying if it survived till now, wouldn't it be 90 years old? It's even more criminal to tear down a 30-year old building when it has lots of life left in it, especially when there isn't a lot in the city that has anything close to its grandeur and elegance.

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

It's important to point out that the cities that bore the worst of the world wars, didn't have many / any surviving structures. (Let alone the human cost)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Warsaw#Warsaw's_rebuilding

You do know that's not the point of the discussion here right?

[officedweller]

Pic by me yesterday.

Georgia paved and lined.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Pic by me yesterday.

Georgia paved and lined.

I assume they are going to switch to the other side of the road now?

[officedweller]

I suppose so, unless they did the other side a few years ago. I remember the sidewalk in front of TD Tower being torn up but can't remember if they did the roadway too.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I suppose so, unless they did the other side a few years ago. I remember the sidewalk in front of TD Tower being torn up but can't remember if they did the roadway too.

They booked until November 2020 for roadwork and an article mentioned they would do it in two phases with the north side and south side being closed alternately.

From Google Maps it look like just the sidewalk along Georgia and Howe Street in 2012.

[officedweller]

Thanks!

[officedweller]

By me today:

Working on the south side of Georgia now.

[officedweller]

Pic by me today.

Hoarding is up around the site now.
North sidewalk still not open but should be soon (?)

[officedweller]

Pics by me this evening.
You can see the thickness of the concrete slab under the roadway.

[bluefox]

It's funny, now that the rotunda is gone you really notice how the cladding of buildings on the north side of Georgia mirrored the other side of the street with the TD tower and old Eatons/Sears building. I never actually took in that white urinal tile being on that side because the rotunda was so prominent.

[officedweller]

It wraps all the way down to Dunsmuir.
Cadillac Fairview also tried to hide it over the Four Seasons driveway with a tacked-on canopy.
... and has removed all of it on the Granville side - replaced with white and patterned spandrel and white marble.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The hotel was closed in 1939, and eventually demolished in 1949. The IM Pei plans were drawn up in 1966, once Eatons brought Cadillac Fairview into the mix. Doesn't seem like anybody was in much of a hurry to do anything. However, it's good to have, on the record, that you would have prefered that they hadn't built the only Downtown mall that we have.

Come on, if they were to preserve the original hotel building, the mall can go somewhere else, like any other cities in the world that respect their heritage structure do. I'd rather prefer it that way. I'm always amazed how you stick to the status quo like a dried up super glue.

[officedweller]

The Pacific Centre and Robson Square projects were the mega-project of their day.
It wasn't just a question of placing a mall somewhere.
It was about revitalizing a deteriorating downtown core.

A special Act was passed by the BC legislature to authorize the City entering into certain leases for the underground parkade and probably the Howe St. tunnel.

https://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/consol17/consol17/00_68072_01

... and that was after a very controversial expripriation by the City (or Province?) to assemble the lands for the private developer.
The "public interest" referenced below being the revitalization of the downtown core.

In Ingledew’s Ltd. v. City of Vancouver, Ingledew’s Ltd. challenged the City of Vancouver’s
expropriation of Block 42 for the Pacific Centre development. While the challenge succeeded
on the argument that the provisions in the development scheme regarding parking were
uncertain and could not be severed from the entire redevelopment scheme, the Court rejected
a number of other grounds on which the expropriation was challenged, including the argument
that the City was effectively loaning its expropriation powers to the developer that had been
selected by the City to undertake the redevelopment of Block 42. The Court deferred to the
City on the issue of whether the redevelopment of the block by a private developer was in the
public interest. ...

https://www.younganderson.ca/assets/seminar_papers/2018/Expropriation-201.pdf

PS - here are some pics of the Gruen and Pei proposal for Block 42 and 52.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jmv/albums/72157668492616146/