Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by rofina

Fence off 1/2 acre in the flats.

One building in the center - washrooms and showers. Very plain, concrete construction. say 10 showers and 15 washrooms.

But with that, we need follow through on enforcement too - no more random camps, and no more random tents. Everyone needs to set up here.

Have cops pick people up and drop them off if that's what it takes to facilitate.

This is not expressing an opinion in support or opposed to the idea. There were 614 people living on the street in Vancouver in 2019. It's probably more now. That might require more than half an acre, especially if you're adding other buildings and facilities. I'm sure the Health Authority wouldn't be happy with hundreds of people on a cramped site.

I'm not aware that the City, or the Province, owns much vacant land in the Flats. It's almost all owned by private companies and the Railways. Almost everything the City owns is developed and in use, either by tenants or as a City facility. The exception is a site on Main Street to the south of the first temporary modular housing building. SoleFood recently moved their orchard from there, and I was guessing the site might get a couple more of the modular projects. It would be a very visible site to create a tent city, and I can't see the Southeast False Creek residents being very happy, but if jamming everyone together onto a vacant site is the idea - that's pretty much all that's available.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Sort of; but not really. The rents may have been that in 2011 when Stephen Lipman first re-tenanted it, but that's not what new tenants would be paying. Six of the rooms are supposed to be restricted to below-market rents (initially $400 a month, so slightly more than welfare) - the other 36 were straight market rental, and those have gone up a lot since 2011. In 2018 the average rent for a room was $850. The low rent rooms deal only lasted 10 years, so that would have disappeared next year. The SRA designation is because the rooms are less than 320 sq. ft, although the renovations saw most have their own bathroom, which is partly why they attract a higher market rent than some other shared bathroom buildings.

So it was $850 two years ago but in their "cheapest" rents for 2018 they list Brandiz at $750 and Pender Hotel was $870.

Places that charge above the $375 shelter component of welfare are "market rental"? Or is it the conditions of the rooms?

Also the 10 year $400 rate mentions "Any rent increases will be proportional to increases to the shelter component of welfare, currently set at $375/month." How are they going to raise the rental of those six units if the shelter component is still the same?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

So it was $850 two years ago but in their "cheapest" rents for 2018 they list Brandiz at $750 and Pender Hotel was $870.

Places that charge above the $375 shelter component of welfare are "market rental"? Or is it the conditions of the rooms?

Also the 10 year $400 rate mentions "Any rent increases will be proportional to increases to the shelter component of welfare, currently set at $375/month." How are they going to raise the rental of those six units if the shelter component is still the same?

SRO rooms, as I understand it, are Single Room Occupancy. They're under 320 sq ft, often have shared bathrooms (but not always), and are regulated in the sense that the owner can't just redevelop them. The rents are usually not regulated, alhough more recent non-market, or 'social' housing often does have a rental agreement to ensure a proportion are available at, or close to welfare rates.

The intention is to phase them out, and replace them with new purpose-built non market buildings, but in the past decade or more the market has been so strong that even some market SRO buildings like the Burns Block rent at $1,350 a month, even with tiny rooms and shared bathrooms. So BC Housing when Rich Coleman was minister, and continuing since the NDP took over, have been buying hotels and SRO buildings (often built as hotels a century or more ago) like The American, to ensure the building is safe, and the rents are all, or mostly, available for people on welfare. Some will be replaced in time with newer, larger buildings. The City has been doing something similar on a smaller scale.

I think the average rent at The American in 2018 relects the mix of longer term tenants who will have below $850 rents, and newer tenants paying more. The cheapest $750 rent at Brandiz is for a new tenant. Presumably the average rent at Brandiz (which is a bit run down) will be lower than $750, reflecting lower rents paid by longer term tenants. At $750 for the cheapest room, you can see how welfare rent payments don't come close to covering a market rent, which is why the City and BC Housing have been trying to secure more guaranteed welfare rate apartments through new development like Mirabel in the West End or Strathcona Village, mentioned in the CCAP report.

The 10 year deal for the 6 rooms kept the rent at $25 over welfare rate. As the welfare rate is still $375, the rent should still be $400 but the deal would have ended next year, as it started in 2011. Then all the rooms would have been market rate once the existing tenants moved out.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Changing City

This is not expressing an opinion in support or opposed to the idea. There were 614 people living on the street in Vancouver in 2019. It's probably more now. That might require more than half an acre, especially if you're adding other buildings and facilities. I'm sure the Health Authority wouldn't be happy with hundreds of people on a cramped site.

I'm not aware that the City, or the Province, owns much vacant land in the Flats. It's almost all owned by private companies and the Railways. Almost everything the City owns is developed and in use, either by tenants or as a City facility. The exception is a site on Main Street to the south of the first temporary modular housing building. SoleFood recently moved their orchard from there, and I was guessing the site might get a couple more of the modular projects. It would be a very visible site to create a tent city, and I can't see the Southeast False Creek residents being very happy, but if jamming everyone together onto a vacant site is the idea - that's pretty much all that's available.

There are always authorities that are not happy.

You know who's not happy with the current status? 99% of Vancouverities.

You know what else the authority should be unhappy about? The state of the DTES. The amount of human feces, needles, garbage, urine, food, its beyond words.

There is always a reason why we cant do something, or someone who doesn't like it. I find it exhausting the amount of collective pontificating we do about this issue, year after year. Not enough land. Not enough space. Health Authority not happy. Wrong zoning.

Not all homeless are going to be living here. But it definitely beats having a nomadic group of 50 tents moving from one park, to another parking lot, to another park.

We don't always need to study things for years on end before trying something.

Whats the risk here? $600,000 on a washroom facility and some fencing? Probably spend that every other month cleaning up garbage on Hastings.

EDIT: I don't mean the above to be directed at you ChangingCity. Its a general comment about our Cities obsession with STUDYING over ACTION.

[whatnext]

I always find it odd that people will have zero sympanthy for the working class or lower middle class being forced out of Vancouver due to renovictions or other high-priced real estate shenanigans, yet the same offer consider it beyond cruel to force those on welfare out of the city.

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I always find it odd that people will have zero sympanthy for the working class or lower middle class being forced out of Vancouver due to renovictions or other high-priced real estate shenanigans, yet the same offer consider it beyond cruel to force those on welfare out of the city.

It's those kind of empty platitudes that stifle the discussion, and perpetuate the misery of the most vulnerable.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Maybe the plan is to tear it down and build something larger eventually? Didn't I hear that the HoJo price was high becuase of the potential to build something of higher density?

There's no reason some sites couldn't be sold later for redevelopment and the windfall used to build more facilities on cheaper land outside of Vancouver. It's time the suburbs start shouldering their fair share on supportive housing, Vancouver shouldn't have to bear the weight of it all.

I think it was just speculation.

And the Suburbs are going to just get pissed off. It's just be a distraction ploy, the focus should be on solving the homelessness problem in the first place.
People are complaining the City is wasting money buying properties at inflated prices (this one is 50% over market), but at least they're doing something about it, if expensive.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I think it was just speculation.

If that's in reference to the American Hotel site being redeveloped:

In addition to purchasing the hotel at 928 Main St., the Province has also bought the adjacent vacant site at 938 Main St., for a total investment of $17.9 million through the Supportive Housing Fund. Over the long term, BC Housing plans to redevelop the American Hotel, as well as the adjacent vacant site, to create additional rental housing in the community.

BC Housing

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I think it was just speculation.

And the Suburbs are going to just get pissed off. It's just be a distraction ploy, the focus should be on solving the homelessness problem in the first place.
People are complaining the City is wasting money buying properties at inflated prices (this one is 50% over market), but at least they're doing something about it, if expensive.

They could build more trailer container units on existing land but I assume those are just also stop gap solutions until they get funding for permanent shelter.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Sheba

If that's in reference to the American Hotel site being redeveloped:

No, it's referring to the Granville Street site. But I agree it only makes sense if the sites are being redeveloped.

Also apparently the American Hotel was about to be redeveloped, so they effectively saved it from redevelopment.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Also apparently the American Hotel was about to be redeveloped, so they effectively saved it from redevelopment.

It wasn't. The vacant site with a small burned out building next to the American was about to be developed.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It wasn't. The vacant site with a small burned out building next to the American was about to be developed.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/936-938-main-street-vancouver-bc-housing-cancelled

An approved private sector redevelopment for 936-938 Main Street has effectively been cancelled by BC Housing’s acquisition of the property and the American Hotel.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

An approved private sector redevelopment for 936-938 Main Street has effectively been cancelled by BC Housing’s acquisition of the property and the American Hotel.

Exactly. BC Housing has bought the American Hotel (928 Main), and the site next door. That has 936 Main, a burned out 2-storey building, and 938 Main, a vacant site. The site of 936-938 was going to be redeveloped as a rental building that incorporated the facade of the burned out building. Now it won't be being redeveloped with a market rental building. The American wasn't going to be redeveloped, but now BC Housing have bought the development site and the American, eventually both could be redeveloped as non-market housing.

[Vin]

In a city that is resistant to let the footprint of our downtown grow out and have more high density structures built further away, the result is that only historical buildings and structures are available to be robbed by the city and province, then turned into slums. Other cities in the world succeed in maintaining their historical stock of buildings by improving them, with viable businesses and decent residents living there, while at the same time housing the vulnerable further away where they are not exposed to all the grit and grime found in a ghetto. However this backward city and province are doing everything the opposite. We have no respect for history here, and instead have the tendency to turn the core area into no man's land. The province is like a vulture: waiting for a pandemic hit in order to snatch up the underperforming hotels, many in once beautiful historical structures. These will become slums in no time, just like those lining East Hastings street: once the prime commercial street of Vancouver's CBD.

And then we are worried about some views of the north shore mountains to be blocked for some of the most entitled people in the entire universe. Brilliant.

Ok I end my day's rant here.
Happy Canada Day everyone.

[Sheba]

Police chiefs across Canada advocate decriminalization of illicit drugs for personal use

Police chiefs from across Canada are calling for the decriminalization of the possession of illicit drugs for personal use, and for the formation of a national task force to research drug policy reform.

At a news conference Thursday morning, Vancouver Police Chief Adam Palmer, who is president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, said that more than five years into the opioid crisis, the organization is officially recognizing that substance use and addiction is a public health issue.

Being addicted to a controlled substance is not a crime and should not be treated as such,” said Palmer.

“We recommend that Canada’s enforcement-based approach for possession be replaced with a health care approach that diverts people from the criminal justice system.”

In May, B.C. recorded its worst month ever for illicit drug toxicity deaths, with 170. It was a 44-per-cent increase from the previous month, and a 93-per-cent increase from May 2019. That was in spite of the fact that in March, B.C. was the first province in Canada to provide a “safer supply” of drugs as an alternative to those sold on the street.

“Illegal drugs, organized crime and addictions to controlled substances will always exist. Given this fact, we must adopt new and innovative approaches in an attempt to reduce drug overdoses in our communities,” Palmer said.

The recommendations come out of the work of a special purpose committee that was started in 2018 to study the decriminalization of illicit drugs and how it would affect public safety and the police. The association also tasked a global studies group last year with conducting research on how police can influence public-policy changes, using decriminalization as an example.

“The work of the committee and the global studies group made it apparent that arresting individuals for simple possession of illicit drugs has proven to be ineffective. It does not save lives,” Palmer said.

Instead, the association proposes that there should be more access to health care, treatment and social services at local, provincial and national levels to help people dealing with substance use or addiction, to keep them out of the criminal-justice system. Decriminalization could include fines and warnings instead of criminal charges, supervised consumption sites and safe drug supplies.

Enforcement would be focused on organized crime, drug trafficking and illegal production and importation.

The organization is also advocating for the creation of a national task force to research drug-policy reform, focusing on a section of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act that deals with simple possession.

“The bottom line is that addiction issues should be best handled through a health-care system, and not through a criminal-justice system,” said Palmer.

The association’s recommendations have B.C. government support.

“This fundamental question that Adam Palmer, the Vancouver Police Department chief and the head of the national chiefs, outlined today is where I believe we need to go. If not now, when?” Premier John Horgan said at a news conference on Thursday.

“Anything that we can do to reduce the deaths, and to reduce the dependence and to, quite frankly, free up law enforcement to do other things, I support.”

Asked if decriminalization would free up space in police budgets, Palmer said that in Vancouver, laws around trafficking and the like are enforced, but there has been “de facto decriminalization” of simple possession of drugs for personal use for about a decade.

“We do not spend resources enforcing for possession of illicit substances,” Palmer said.

[Vin]

Everyone wants less work and not deal with the drug scourge in this country. Healthcare workers like paramedics are also asking for that too. I suppose VPD also want out now. Better that addicts get "clean" drugs and rot slowly away in situ I suppose. Vancouver has been dealing with drug crime and use, and associated mental health issues, by utilizing the "brush off" strategy for a long time. Nothing new here. DTES will just keep growing and spiral out of control, just like what you see in American cities.

[MIPS]

Tent city at Vancouver's Strathcona Park growing, no enforcement of bylaw on removing tents in the morning

A new bylaw that allows overnight camping in parks — but requires tents to be taken down by 7 a.m. — is not being enforced at Strathcona Park, where a tent city continues to grow.

On Thursday there were 311 tents in the park, which accounts for about 80 per cent of the green space in the neighbourhood, according to the Strathcona Residents Association.

he park board passed the bylaw on July 15 by a 4-3 vote, to conform to a 2009 Supreme Court ruling that said seeking refuge in public spaces when other shelter is unavailable is a constitutional right.

“This is a super-complex problem with a lot of nuance,” said Katie Lewis, vice-president of the Strathcona Residents Association. “We are supportive, but of a smaller encampment, maybe 20 or 25 tents, and not in a public park.

“The park board has told us bluntly they are not going to enforce” the bylaw, she said.

Lewis feels there is lots of blame to share out among the city, province, feds and the park board. Most of the original campers, about 30 or so, moved from a waterfront lot next to CRAB Park five weeks ago, after the port authority got an injunction ordering them off its land.

- https://vancouversun.com/news/tent-city-...f-bylaw-on-removing-tents-in-the-morning

The next civic election cycle's gonna be a fun one.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by MIPS

The next civic election cycle's gonna be a fun one.

I'm going to be very politically active this next election cycle.

This is such a joke, I have so much to say, but I cant even type it out because I'm so disappointed and aggravated with the leadership we have.

[Vin]

I think all residents around Strathcona should stop paying the City property taxes, which is due in September. No park, no taxes. Simple.

When that happens, I bet you will see quick action by the City Park board.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Vin

I think all residents around Strathcona should stop paying the City property taxes, which is due in September. No park, no taxes. Simple.

When that happens, I bet you will see quick action by the City Park board.

Or perhaps it's just time to abolish the parks board. I could get behind that, fold them into the city council just like everywhere else.