Ideas/Visions for Ottawa, Canada's Capital

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We all know why Ottawa was never a waterfront city. Downtown faced cliffs and waterfalls, and the Rideau Canal was built as a military canal, which restricted use along its shore-line. The waterfalls made them industrial sites. Navigation was very limited and what little there was became obsolete as soon as railways came on the scene.

How do we invigorate our waterfront when there has been so little history to make use of the waterfront other than for green-space or in very limited locations, for industry?

This is true almost everywhere. At least most colder industrial cities. The way to invigorate it is just do it. The aversion to anything private in Ottawa makes this difficult but still doable.

[On Edge]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The short answer is.. they won't. We have committed all our resources, both financial and political, into building an urban transit system for the least urban parts of the city. And we have built political institutions that are overtly anti-urban. Four years of O'Brien and now too many years of Watson Club in charge are baking anti-urbanity into the fabric of Ottawa even more than it already was before (and it was bad before.)



And transit, more and more, gets relegated in the priority whenever we rebuild any of our main streets, and is treated as expendable.

Increasingly, if you're in Ottawa, and you want to be urban, your best bet is going to be to move to a city that knows and thinks it's a city, and acts like it.

The odd fixation on bike lanes over transit shows how clued out our planners and leaders are. Somebody read somewhere that bike lanes mean urban, as in Amsterdam and Copenhagen. They forgot to turn the page in My First Book of Urban Planning to note that lively urban places prioritize transit first, in subways, streetcars, etc.

[Aylmer]

Although they're both related to mobility, the question of bike infrastructure and transit infrastructure are actually different in important ways. Transit infrastructure is generally a transportation question - capacity, speed, service. Bike lanes and sidewalks are mainly about safety.

The idea that people build bike lanes out of an aesthetic preference is a strawman that can't be taken seriously. Instead, think of bike lanes like sidewalks. No one questions whether the sidewalks on Elgin should be turned into a bus lane. This is true even in places where a bus lane would have a much higher throughput than the sidewalks. But that's because bus lanes are a transport question, and it's accepted that a sidewalk is necessary for safety.

The problem is that there's always been a missing middle ground for modes which are faster than walking, but still vulnerable. Bikes, scooters, motorized wheelchairs and other mobility aids all fall into this category. They're not safe on roads, but they don't fit on sidewalks either. With the increasing uptake of all of these modes, we're expanding what we consider to be the minimum elements of safety on streets.

Transit infrastructure will always be essential to the functioning of a city. But that doesn't negate the fact that it's more important for someone to get to work alive than to get there fast.

[Truenorth00]

Well at least Ottawa talks about being a 15 min city while expanding the suburban boundary....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-first-glimpse-official-plan-1.5256386

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Although they're both related to mobility, the question of bike infrastructure and transit infrastructure are actually different in important ways. Transit infrastructure is generally a transportation question - capacity, speed, service. Bike lanes and sidewalks are mainly about safety.

The idea that people build bike lanes out of an aesthetic preference is a strawman that can't be taken seriously. Instead, think of bike lanes like sidewalks. No one questions whether the sidewalks on Elgin should be turned into a bus lane. This is true even in places where a bus lane would have a much higher throughput than the sidewalks. But that's because bus lanes are a transport question, and it's accepted that a sidewalk is necessary for safety.

The problem is that there's always been a missing middle ground for modes which are faster than walking, but still vulnerable. Bikes, scooters, motorized wheelchairs and other mobility aids all fall into this category. They're not safe on roads, but they don't fit on sidewalks either. With the increasing uptake of all of these modes, we're expanding what we consider to be the minimum elements of safety on streets.

Transit infrastructure will always be essential to the functioning of a city. But that doesn't negate the fact that it's more important for someone to get to work alive than to get there fast.

I think your analysis is at best half true and is equally a straw man. Sidewalks already exist. Where they don't exist we don't generally add them at the detriment of transit. So a walking and bike path along the 417 would make it safer to walk and cycle along that route but the volume of cars that would be displaced and the alternative route that exists means we don't even consider that. While not as extreme a bike lane on Montreal Road or even Beechwood is similar. By your get there safe logic bikers can use the Rockcliffe Parkway. Even with a bike lane on Montreal there will be numerous dangerous crossings. The dozens of bikers who might save a minute or two and feel a bit safer will slow down the hundreds of transit riders who depend on the route. Meanwhile the 150+ days a year in Ottawa when only crazy people bike the bike lane will sit mostly empty.

Money and space is limited so it is always a trade-off.

[Blackburnian]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Montreal station is actually useless for Blackburn. Transit in Blackburn is concentrated as an east west corridor on Innes that connects to Blair.

There is a bus route that connects to Montreal station (the 28) but it's far less frequent than the 25 and during weekdays daytime it runs as a long slow winding route through Blackburn. From the community core, it's a 9 minute trip to Blair on the 25 but a 16 minute trip to Montreal on the 28. And that's not even factoring in the frequency difference. So even if you're going east to Orleans it's faster to connect at Blair.

The 28 is often more convenient around morning and afternoon rush, as 25 will often be packed with people headed for/from orleans. Also in winter especially I much prefer walking to my nearby busstop for the 28 than walk the 8-ish minutes over to innes road and wait for the 25, in fact most of the year (until covid changed the 28 schedule to hourly most of the day, which is now back to the normal 20-30 min intervals)

Originally Posted by CityTech

During evening and weekends the 28 is a lot better as it runs as a straight line on Bearbrook, making the travel times faster. But even then, it's only 1-2 minutes faster to Montreal than Blair, and the 25 is still way more frequent.

I feel the schedule is definitely going to change with the opening of montreal stn, if a more frequent 28 comes through the hamlet, (even if its coming to and from beacon hill) I can imagine many transit riders (students and government workers) here taking advantage of that.

Originally Posted by CityTech

I suppose they could adopt the straight line routing all the time and use the time savings to make the 28 a frequent route but even then Montreal will only be better than Blair for trips to northern Orleans.

I think there actually used to be two routes down Bearbrook road, one that was more direct, and the one that snakes around Blackburn

Originally Posted by CityTech

tl;dr - the addition of Montreal station won't make Blackburn any more transit accessible than the construction of Blair station already has.

I do agree it won't make much difference for us, but time will tell i guess.

It will making biking to and from the train easier(not always a bike rack on every bus), and with the apparent bike storage facilities (if theres enough) I could see montreal stn be an intermodal station for beaconhill and (maybe some) blackburn residents (though the trip up the hill on st.joseph may be a challenge)

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I think your analysis is [...] is equally a straw man.

I... think I've made my point.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Transit infrastructure will always be essential to the functioning of a city. But that doesn't negate the fact that it's more important for someone to get to work alive than to get there fast.

It's not just about getting to work.

And we can get bikists to and from "work" without continuing to make local transit in the urban core slower, less convenient, more convoluted, and indirect. But those solutions are never, ever, EVER enough for the bikists.

[Acajack]

Regarding Montreal Station vs. Blair Station for Blackburn residents, I agree that while Blair offers more stuff around it, for a lot of people who aren't interested in shopping and such, and simply want to get to and from downtown, Montreal Station will be a better option provided that OC Transpo changes the routes to and from the Hamlet to make that work. (Which I expect them to do.)

It's barely over a five-minute drive (or 3.5 km) from the heart of the Hamlet to the future location of Montreal Station, with relatively few stoplights on the route.

[Kitchissippi]

Whenever I see this old quarry in Carlington Park, I think "hmm, giant outdoor wave pool"



from archiexpo.

Or more ambitiously, something like URBNSURF in Melbourne. It could draw an adventurous tourist crowd.

[LRTeverywhere]

I believe in the winter it is a massive snow storage area, it could be a wave pool in the summer and skiing in the winter!

[HighwayStar]

Around 7 or 8 years ago a water slide park was proposed for exactly that hill and area…. NIMBYs put a full halt to it in record time…

[Harley613]

When my Dad grew up in Fisher Park in the 1960's people used to push old abandoned cars off the edge of the quarry into the water. I wonder if any are still down there?

[Multi-modal]

If the Carling LRT is ever built, I'm guessing that snow-dump has a 90% chance of becoming the maintenance and storage facility for the trains. In this scenario they should probably build housing or something on top of the train depot though.

[McKellarDweller]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Whenever I see this old quarry in Carlington Park, I think "hmm, giant outdoor wave pool"

Nice! I've always fantasized about that former ski run just east of this being an awesome place for a snowboard/ski terrain park with snowmaking, a half pipe, jumps/tabletops/rails etc, with lights and a lift. Probably not a strong business case for something like that in Ottawa, but it would be cool AF.

[Acajack]

Isn't there already a ski hill there? Ann Heggtveit Ski Hill? There used to be, anyway.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Isn't there already a ski hill there? Ann Heggtveit Ski Hill? There used to be, anyway.

Many years ago in Carlington Park. After skiing was gone, there was tubing for a year or two. I remember tubing with friends

[Kitchissippi]

It's still a popular tobogganing hill. I took this video last winter, great view of the city skyline from up there.

Video Link

[OTSkyline]

Would love to revive this thread from the dead since it's been a few years since it was most active.

Here are 2 new initiatives I saw which had me thinking "hmm cool, why not in Ottawa"?

New Urban Rooftop Skating Rink with Views

https://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2021/11/skyskate-toronto/


New Large Outdoor Colorful Patio / Plaza ... If I'm not mistaken they were serving drinks and also had put up a projector showing sports games & the like

https://storeys.com/downtown-parking-lot-converted-patio/

[AR-OTT]

Originally Posted by McKellarDweller

Nice! I've always fantasized about that former ski run just east of this being an awesome place for a snowboard/ski terrain park with snowmaking, a half pipe, jumps/tabletops/rails etc, with lights and a lift. Probably not a strong business case for something like that in Ottawa, but it would be cool AF.

This would be so cool. Subbing the lift for a t bar or rope tow and losing the halfpipe I think could actually make it business viable if it was managed by the right people. Rail jams and of course a pond skim in the spring would be a lot of fun.

Maybe the T bar could share access with a tubing track to improve the business case.