Ideas/Visions for Ottawa, Canada's Capital

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I don’t know of anything outside the Greenbelt that fits the bill (centre of Kanata - I’ve never been?), but a number of central neighbourhoods are there or have the potential to get there, istm. The Glebe/Landsdowne/Ottawa South; Westboro/Hintonberg; Little Italy; Beechwood Village; Old Ottawa East (moving in right direction); Montreal Rd Vanier (potential); Montreal Rd/St Laurent/Montfort (a big stretch, but potential). Even TrainYards, had they delivered on the original concept, but it’s now more opportunity lost. Looking further into the future, one might suggest Merivale, but I don’t see that happening for decades.

You had a career in the public service (mostly) in Ottawa and you have never been to Kanata?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

In the case of Carleton University, is it because the campus in so insular, surrounded by water and greenspace and not interacting much with the neighbouring communities.

And this is where the architects learn their trade.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Both universities are principally commuter schools. Students drive/transit home to the suburbs after class.

That's the same of pretty well all urban universities in Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's honestly far more than I thought. Very surprising stats.

Carleton has even more out of towners than uOttawa.

The francophone element at uOttawa favours a large local contingent to some degree.

Carleton has lots of GTA types.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Canada has a handful of highly prestigious universities with a significant student population from out of town. Queen's is one of them, uOttawa and Carleton unfortunately are not.

Fun fact: even the NON-prestigious universities in Canada have significant student populations that are not only from out of town, they are from out of COUNTRY.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's not too far from what is currently proposed for the Market area. King-Edward could only revert to this if a new bridge (or less likely, a tunnel) is ever built.

There is nothing stopping King Edward from being rebuilt like that now, other than the fact that it was just rebuilt within the past decade to the same stupid highway geometry that it already had.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You had a career in the public service (mostly) in Ottawa and you have never been to Kanata?

There's not much reason for the vast majority of people who don't live in Kanata to ever set foot in Kanata.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You had a career in the public service (mostly) in Ottawa and you have never been to Kanata?

Well, I’ve driven past it a few times. TBH, most of what’s beyond the Greenbelt is a mystery to me. I was to a restaurant in Stittsville once and I’ve twice been briefly to Barrhaven. I was also out to Trim Road once, years ago, but the nosebleed got so bad that I had to turn back.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

There's not much reason for the vast majority of people who don't live in Kanata to ever set foot in Kanata.

The only reason I went to Kanata was to go to a hockey game or concert.

Once (if?) they relocate the arena to the core of the city, there would be almost nothing you need in Kanata that you couldn't get elsewhere.

[Acajack]

I don't expect inner city Ottawans to all know Kanata like the back of their hand, but if one has lived in the area for, say, 20 years (or even 10), I'd expect you to have had at least a couple of occasions to go to most of the major suburbs.

Even if it's just because someone you were close to from work had a baby shower in 2002 and they or their friend hosting lived in Kanata, or someone gave you a gift certificate for the spa at Brookstreet, or you went to a store at Rideau and the product you needed is out of stock, but the Kanata Centrum location has one and if you wait for them to transfer it it will take a week so you decide to drive there, or you bought something on Kijii and they live out there...

At least to me, life is so multi-faceted that I get drawn to all sorts of corners of the region that I wouldn't normally go to the trouble of visiting otherwise.

I guess that's not the case for everyone.

(Plus I do like exploring.)

[kwoldtimer]

Almost 40 years in my case, but I’ve had very little social interaction with suburb people. Any socializing would involve them coming in to town. In general, Manor Park, Ottawa South, and Westboro (and the river) would define the outer limits of my Ottawa, with rare exceptions.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't expect inner city Ottawans to all know Kanata like the back of their hand, but if one has lived in the area for, say, 20 years (or even 10), I'd expect you to have had at least a couple of occasions to go to most of the major suburbs.

Even if it's just because someone you were close to from work had a baby shower in 2002 and they or their friend hosting lived in Kanata, or someone gave you a gift certificate for the spa at Brookstreet, or you went to a store at Rideau and the product you needed is out of stock, but the Kanata Centrum location has one and if you wait for them to transfer it it will take a week so you decide to drive there, or you bought something on Kijii and they live out there...

At least to me, life is so multi-faceted that I get drawn to all sorts of corners of the region that I wouldn't normally go to the trouble of visiting otherwise.

I guess that's not the case for everyone.

(Plus I do like exploring.)

The visiting of friends and family, I get.

It's just that the suburbs really don't lend themselves to 'exploring', the way a more built-up areas do.

Everything is so segregated and cocooned unto its own thing, especially in very new suburbs like Kanata. You have industrial parks, malls/shopping and housing at such scale and segregation to make exploring a pain, even on something like a bicycle.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

The visiting of friends and family, I get.

It's just that the suburbs really don't lend themselves to 'exploring', the way a more built-up areas do.

Everything is so segregated and cocooned unto its own thing, especially in very new suburbs like Kanata. You have industrial parks, malls/shopping and housing at such scale and segregation to make exploring a pain, even on something like a bicycle.

Perhaps I should not have mentioned exploring. That's just me. I know most people don't explore that much and probably not in the ways I do.

Still, I would think that just by virtue of living in Ottawa for a reasonable period of time, "life" would bring you to Orleans, Kanata or Barrhaven once in a blue moon. For reasons of the nature I already cited.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Almost 40 years in my case, but I’ve had very little social interaction with suburb people. Any socializing would involve them coming in to town. In general, Manor Park, Ottawa South, and Westboro (and the river) would define the outer limits of my Ottawa, with rare exceptions.

I have never noticed that people in Ottawa-Gatineau workplaces self-segregate based on area of residence. They do often self-segrate based on language (anglophone-francophone), life paths (kids vs. no kids) and even ethnicity in some cases. Of course, where people live does have some effect on where people live, though it's far from being seamless. I know childless gay couples in the burbs, and families who live downtown.

[lrt's friend]

A long video on transit with Jarrett Walker. Some interesting points where we may be making mistakes. About an hour in, he talks about 'beta' transit technology that causes major problems and I immediately thought of the Confederation Line. Ottawa is the beta tester city for these new trains, the first in the world for this model. Ottawa residents lose by being the beta tester and Alstom is the benefactor when they get the many bugs out and sell it to other cities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cS8ePs7cbs&list=PLb7XoHVL28kFesP4kKGu63NxJczaMFY9L&index=7

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Fun fact: even the NON-prestigious universities in Canada have significant student populations that are not only from out of town, they are from out of COUNTRY.

Yeah I don't think it's even highly correlated. Carleton has a few excellent programs. U of Ottawa is not in the the first tier with McGill Queens etc but has climbed into the solid second tier for a lot of programs. They both are strong in the International and Public Administration areas naturally being in the capital.

24k students and only 7k in residence is a major presence. If we are online only
this fall we will notice their absence in the core and the rental market will as well.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I don’t know of anything outside the Greenbelt that fits the bill (centre of Kanata - I’ve never been?), but a number of central neighbourhoods are there or have the potential to get there, istm. The Glebe/Landsdowne/Ottawa South; Westboro/Hintonberg; Little Italy; Beechwood Village; Old Ottawa East (moving in right direction); Montreal Rd Vanier (potential); Montreal Rd/St Laurent/Montfort (a big stretch, but potential). Even TrainYards, had they delivered on the original concept, but it’s now more opportunity lost. Looking further into the future, one might suggest Merivale, but I don’t see that happening for decades.

Honestly, Blackburn Hamlet might fit the bill. It's not fancy looking, but it's a pretty complete community for a suburb. The shops and services are almost all concentrated around the community's central intersection of Innes and Bearbrook. Grocery store, convenience store, fast food, restaurants, the pub, pharmacy, dentists, doctors office, library, and arena are all right there. The entire community, save for maybe a handful of crescents at the northernmost extreme, is within a 15 minute walk of that intersection. And there's a lot of diversity of housing types too, lots of townhouses/rowhouse developments and an apartment tower in addition to detached houses. This allows a mixed population of different types of people - families with kids along with empty nesters, students, young professionals, childless couples, etc, rather than the monolithic parents with kids households in the newer suburbs.

And the higher density areas are concentrated closer to that central intersection too - the areas along Glen Park and Orient Park closer to the core area are all townhouses, while the northern areas more distant to it are all detached houses.

And transit is pretty good too - the 25 has high frequencies throughout the day and runs late into the evening and runs in a straight line down Innes, providing fast, frequent bus service all day within a 10 minute walk of almost all the community, passing right through the community core. It's only a 10 minute ride from the community core to Blair station.

I think part of the Hamlet's success is that the NCC owns all the land surrounding it, so nobody can build a big "Smart Centre" type thing at the entrance to the community that 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 commercial activity out of the neighbourhood retail areas, like you see in most suburbs. Plus the good transit makes it a popular living choice for transit-dependent people which keeps a captive market for the shops and services at the central core and limits the number of people just driving out to the super box complexes in Orleans or by the 417, again keeping the neighborhood retail alive.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Honestly, Blackburn Hamlet might fit the bill. It's not fancy looking, but it's a pretty complete community for a suburb. The shops and services are almost all concentrated around the community's central intersection of Innes and Bearbrook. Grocery store, convenience store, fast food, restaurants, the pub, pharmacy, dentists, doctors office, library, and arena are all right there. The entire community, save for maybe a handful of crescents at the northernmost extreme, is within a 15 minute walk of that intersection. And there's a lot of diversity of housing types too, lots of townhouses/rowhouse developments and an apartment tower in addition to detached houses. This allows a mixed population of different types of people - families with kids along with empty nesters, students, young professionals, childless couples, etc, rather than the monolithic parents with kids households in the newer suburbs.

And the higher density areas are concentrated closer to that central intersection too - the areas along Glen Park and Orient Park closer to the core area are all townhouses, while the northern areas more distant to it are all detached houses.

And transit is pretty good too - the 25 has high frequencies throughout the day and runs late into the evening and runs in a straight line down Innes, providing fast, frequent bus service all day within a 10 minute walk of almost all the community, passing right through the community core. It's only a 10 minute ride from the community core to Blair station.

I think part of the Hamlet's success is that the NCC owns all the land surrounding it, so nobody can build a big "Smart Centre" type thing at the entrance to the community that 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 commercial activity out of the neighbourhood retail areas, like you see in most suburbs. Plus the good transit makes it a popular living choice for transit-dependent people which keeps a captive market for the shops and services at the central core and limits the number of people just driving out to the super box complexes in Orleans or by the 417, again keeping the neighborhood retail alive.

Interestingly enough, in the outer east end (Orleans, Beacon Hill) Blackburn Hamlet is seen as a slowly declining area.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Interestingly enough, in the outer east end (Orleans, Beacon Hill) Blackburn Hamlet is seen as a slowly declining area.

Not surprising. All the things I mentioned as attributes (mixed housing types, neighbourhood-focused retail, good all-day transit) are seen as negatives by the suburban types.

[J.OT13]

Hoping Blackburn's proximity to Montreal station sparks renewed interest in the area. I would love to see some medium density development along Innes, creating something resembling a traditional main street.