The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[Hawrylyshyn]

Thanks for sharing that article! I've started reading it and looks very insightful

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by someone123

I am familiar with incels. Incel means involuntary celibate and the group tends to be heterosexual males who complain about their lack of partners.

This is actually the opposite of what I was talking about; I was posting from the perspective of women.

I also didn't say that women won't have dating partners. I said that some heterosexual men seem to be leaving the dating pool or have diminishing economic prospects. The dating market is one of match-making; any diminishment of the pool will tend to reduce the average quality of the match that is made. So outcomes for heterosexual men have an impact on heterosexual women too.

Here is some data:


Source

I make no assertion about the reasons why fewer men are having 🞵🞵🞵 or working (one example of a suspected factor in the article above is that more young people are living with parents). I merely observe that this has an impact on heterosexual women looking for partners. So it does not make sense to view men and women, on the whole, as completely disparate groups that have separate unrelated social trajectories, and to pit them against each other as "teams".

Sorry I set off your incel detector.. you might need to recalibrate it.

This seems like a way more intense trend than it appears as we've become more 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 liberal.

I'd also suspect it is likely that single women with kids are increasing the women without 🞵🞵🞵, while there isn't the same equivalent on the male side.

Regardless DNA is pretty daming. It's something like 2 to 1 ratio between male to female reproductive success in prehistoric times.

Seems the only control on this is organized religion/larger 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 norms.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by Architype

How can you determine whether that is a value judgement or not based on your own cultural beliefs? The subject of human sacrifice in the bible is given serious consideration and debate, and we take the bible as an accepted prototypical standard of moral guidance even today. How can you separate the accepted civility of collateral damage in warfare or pandemic from that of a form of accepted human sacrifice?

I mean isn't mass ritual cannibalism? Especially for Catholics believing in transubstantiation. A bit spooky for sure from the outside looking in.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Well what are these solutions? I'm not hearing any, it's all just arguing about whether systemic racism exists or not, and perhaps importing some US specific solutions to the Canadian discussion, adding little value.

Simply because people lover to 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵.

I'm also curious as to whether anyone has any suggestions on how to stop systemic racism.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by cabotp

I'm also curious as to whether anyone has any suggestions on how to stop systemic racism.

According to BLM Canada's list of "demands" the solution is mostly a series of public apologies from politicians (including all elected officials in Toronto as well as seven specifically named council and school board officials), reparations to victims of police-involved killings, and the naming and shaming of specific police officers. Also guaranteed residency for all illegal migrants and a completely open border. And then various platitudes about intersectionality with Muslims including revoking the Barbaric Cultural Practices Act.

Does any of this tackle systemic racism? Almost certainly not, but it does satisfy the desire for race-based vengeance BLM seem to thrive on.

These "demands" as well as the extreme anti-capitalist, anti-Western demands of other BLM groups are why I find it all but impossible to consider them a group seeking legitimate solutions.

To be fair, my views may be coloured by a violent physical assault I suffered by BLM Toronto members whilst attempting to access Toronto police headquarters, and by the fact Sandy Hudson, one of their leaders, successfully avoided prosecution for massive fraud by insinuating the legal process against her was racially motivated
(https://thevarsity.ca/2017/10/12/utsu-settles-lawsuit-with-sandra-hudson/).

[Architype]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

I mean isn't mass ritual cannibalism? Especially for Catholics believing in transubstantiation. A bit spooky for sure from the outside looking in.

^Symbolically. Transubstantiation aside, human sacrifice, even literal in the case of the central figure, is the crux of Christianity. BLM however, has not found its personal savior yet.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Well what are these solutions? I'm not hearing any, it's all just arguing about whether systemic racism exists or not, and perhaps importing some US specific solutions to the Canadian discussion, adding little value.

At the very least, a significant amount of the energy associated with this seems to be expended spewing hate at a specific demographic based on their skin tone.

Normally this should be verboten in this day and age, but since it's under the cover of a fight for racial justice, and the assumption that "they're *all* racist anyway", it passes muster and they get away with it.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by savevp

According to BLM Canada's list of "demands" the solution is mostly a series of public apologies from politicians (including all elected officials in Toronto as well as seven specifically named council and school board officials), reparations to victims of police-involved killings, and the naming and shaming of specific police officers. Also guaranteed residency for all illegal migrants and a completely open border. And then various platitudes about intersectionality with Muslims including revoking the Barbaric Cultural Practices Act.

Does any of this tackle systemic racism? Almost certainly not, but it does satisfy the desire for race-based vengeance BLM seem to thrive on.

No.

A reality is there will always be observed racism in the outcomes of different visible minorities in Canada, so long as we have immigration from everywhere and as long as the world has inequality between regions. Since the richer regions of the globe are generally whiter, it's a mathematical certainty that the less white residents of Canada will be poorer. If we shut the borders for 1000 years then the observed inequality of races would likely wash away, but since we are continually letting browner people in who tend to come from poorer countries, it's inevitable that the statistics will be showing the non white population to be poorer.

The best we can do is ensuring that every kid has the best chance possible of achieving their maximum potential regardless of their family's income. That's my solution to systemic racism. All the other issues will be lessened if we do that.


Edit, a disclaimer since people will probably pre decide my motives: I fully support immigration, including from poorer, browner regions of the globe. It makes Canada better.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by savevp

According to BLM Canada's list of "demands" the solution is mostly a series of public apologies from politicians (including all elected officials in Toronto as well as seven specifically named council and school board officials), reparations to victims of police-involved killings, and the naming and shaming of specific police officers. Also guaranteed residency for all illegal migrants and a completely open border. And then various platitudes about intersectionality with Muslims including revoking the Barbaric Cultural Practices Act.

Does any of this tackle systemic racism? Almost certainly not, but it does satisfy the desire for race-based vengeance BLM seem to thrive on.

These "demands" as well as the extreme anti-capitalist, anti-Western demands of other BLM groups are why I find it all but impossible to consider them a group seeking legitimate solutions.

To be fair, my views may be coloured by a violent physical assault I suffered by BLM Toronto members whilst attempting to access Toronto police headquarters, and by the fact Sandy Hudson, one of their leaders, successfully avoided prosecution for massive fraud by insinuating the legal process against her was racially motivated
(https://thevarsity.ca/2017/10/12/utsu-settles-lawsuit-with-sandra-hudson/).

BLM Toronto has some really interesting people associated with it.

Here is another one:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/yusra-khogali-twitter-the-star-1.3529105

https://torontosun.com/2017/02/11/black-...wcm/2748a714-f567-4344-8c08-decfe73d1e52

So did she get "cancelled" because of these two incidents?

Nope! She got a leadership award from the city!

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/03...a-khogali-demands-government-action.html

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The thing is there's a history of (mostly) white women calling the cops on minorities for minor infractions, always with the plausible deniability of, "I'm not racist. I just really, really care about the rules."

Read this account from a 911 operator on how often they get these calls. Having these people charged would be a good start on cutting down on this kind of behaviour.

It shouldn't matter, though. Just like it's not supposed to matter if Demographic X is significantly more involved in crime than Demographic Y. Cops shouldn't treat Dem X people differently based on stats showing them more likely to be criminals.

If you follow the same logic, calls from "Karens" involving people with darker skin tones than them shouldn't be assumed to be racist and frivolous and therefore dismissed out of hand.

Every one needs to be assessed on its own merits of lack thereof.

I don't have the entire story to what happened in Barrhaven and neither does anyone here I am pretty sure.

But one thing I am sure of is that every single altercation between people of a different skin colour does not have racist implications. Far from it in fact.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Since the richer regions of the globe are generally whiter, it's a mathematical certainty that the less white residents of Canada will be poorer. .

This has been the case historically, but not sure if it will continue into the future as we continue to demand higher education and financial solidity to immigrate here.

We are already seeing certain non-European immigrant sub-groups that are more affluent than the Canadian average.

I am too lazy to look for more details about multiple groups but I do know that in the U.S. for example people of Nigerian origin are more affluent than the U.S. average and more affluent than whites.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The thing is there's a history of (mostly) white women calling the cops on minorities for minor infractions, always with the plausible deniability of, "I'm not racist. I just really, really care about the rules."

This "calling the police on black people" thing is starting to look like a lazy fill-in-the-blanks narrative that is never so clear cut as the salivating journalist hucksters want it to be.

I Googled. I found:

But Flom — who’s pregnant and was visiting the park with her kids — alleges that the face-off began when she “told [Garcia and a friend] they’re not supposed to be smoking [weed] and [Garcia], jumped off [her seat], ran in my face. She didn’t care I was pregnant, or that I had two little kids.”

Flom claims Garcia called her a “🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵” and ranted aggressively at her. She said that she called the police not because of the weed, but “about the woman being in my face.”

Flom added that Garcia recorded for 45 minutes, but only posted “tidbits” of the tape.

“She put her narrative on it to make me look like a racist,” she claimed. “She twisted the entire thing like she’s some poor girl sitting alone on a bench and I’m white trash, harassing her for no reason.” She demanded that Garcia “post the whole” video unedited.

https://pagesix.com/2020/06/01/restauran...911-call-video-twisted-the-entire-thing/

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

BLM Toronto has some really interesting people associated with it.

Here is another one:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/yusra-khogali-twitter-the-star-1.3529105

https://torontosun.com/2017/02/11/black-...wcm/2748a714-f567-4344-8c08-decfe73d1e52

So did she get "cancelled" because of these two incidents?

Nope! She got a leadership award from the city!

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/03...a-khogali-demands-government-action.html

I love how she tries to claim that tweet is being used to take legitimacy from the movement as if it started with solid foundations.

BLM is a which hunt organization, always has been. The initial premise that people are turning a blind eye to the deaths of young black men,holds absolutely no water. when you realize these people are directly avoiding the topic of young black men killing young black men.

Regardless this is a symptom of a problem not the cause. Globalization/internet has removed political barriers which is radically increasing the rise of new barriers.

People see what other people have and they want it. You get people in newbrunskwick killing people over the 2nd amendment Natives in Ontario blocking green transit lines to support environmental protests in BC etc.

The internet has created a society of window shoppers. Politics has become so contentious directly because people are more interested in the politics of other regions than they are of the ones at home. When people see other anglosaxon democracies get something they want it to.

It creates a situation where people believing they want modest amounts of progress are actually turning into extremist. For me the whole atlantic bubble thinger really brought that home. My leftist relatives were outraged a bunch of quebeccers were in the province. My mom was even actively questioning how a bunch of Asians come to st john's from new Brunswick.

Regional politics and our window shopping activities are so radically out of step with eachother.

I also wonder how much this is a product of detachment. In newfoundland I'm relatively left of center, and soon as I leave the province I turn center right. I always assumed it was cultural(middle class in newfoundland although I associate more with working class folk in ontario).

But I really think its my lack of attachment to the region that creates this mentality. When I'm in Ontario it's hard for me to reason why we can't copy the politics of the American midwest, because I view the areas as more or less the same culture.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So did she get "cancelled" because of these two incidents?
[/url]

Actually she was in the community, but the SSP feel good about themselves for finding faults yet only listening to mainstream media would never know it. Doesn’t fit the narrative.

Anyways, I’ll let y’all continue to out-brain each other on how much you think you know.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It shouldn't matter, though. Just like it's not supposed to matter if Demographic X is significantly more involved in crime than Demographic Y. Cops shouldn't treat Dem X people differently based on stats showing them more likely to be criminals.

If you follow the same logic, calls from "Karens" involving people with darker skin tones than them shouldn't be assumed to be racist and frivolous and therefore dismissed out of hand.

Every one needs to be assessed on its own merits of lack thereof.

Exactly, otherwise the alternative is an officially racist society where you don't have to follow mandatory social distancing rules if you happen to be dark-skinned.

If that person did something that deserves police intervention, then they should be on the receiving end of that, regardless of their race. The rules that Karen reeeeally cares about probably exist for a reason; if not, let's abolish them.

I also don't think it's a good idea to penalize people for reporting stuff to the cops that turns out to be not as big a deal as they thought, it seems that it's the opposite of what we should be encouraging (i.e. it'll result in people minding their own business and never officially "seeing" any crimes even if committed in front of them). But yeah, to address the issue that Truenorth00 brought up, every citizen could be allowed a number of strikes (a few every couple years, say), and after you've used up all your free bogus calls, you're starting to get billed/ticketed every time you call the cops yet again for no/little reason.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

This "calling the police on black people" thing is starting to look like a lazy fill-in-the-blanks narrative that is never so clear cut as the salivating journalist hucksters want it to be.

I Googled. I found:

It's become quite apparent that if I (or several on us on here) were involved in an altercation with a minority person - which can happen just as it can with a non-minority person - and that the minority person was the instigator or aggressor, that we would be assumed to be guilty virtually automatically. And that any video evidence would be edited* so as to make us look bad - or with even worse intentions in mind.

*Not necessarily by the minority person in question, but more likely by someone with an agenda.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

Actually she was in the community, but the SSP feel good about themselves for finding faults yet only listening to mainstream media would never know it. Doesn’t fit the narrative.

Anyways, I’ll let y’all continue to out-brain each other on how much you think you know.

Sorry, am I understanding you correctly? She was "cancelled" by the BLM community?

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sorry, am I understanding you correctly? She was "cancelled" by the BLM community?

By the greater activist community. Not everyone involved in the concept of Black lives matter is part of BLM. Plenty of the former were critical of donations to BLMTO even though it’s mostly reformed at this point. I know it’s confusing for those looking for a million reasons to discredit.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

I mean isn't mass ritual cannibalism? Especially for Catholics believing in transubstantiation.

As Architype pointed out, only symbolically. Kinda like how killing a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 just because you can in Grand Theft Auto is "murder".

Yes, it's murder, just not murder in real life

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

By the greater activist community. Not everyone involved in the concept of Black lives matter is part of BLM. I know it’s confusing for those looking for a million reasons to discredit.

It's not about looking for reasons to discredit. But this person has proactively provided enough reasons herself for her to be discredited by people.

Regardless, would someone from a different demographic who had said the things she said about other groups have been given a city leadership award barely two years later?

That is the real question.

Anyway, it doesn't exactly sound like she's been fully "cancelled". (Not that I necessarily think she should. Again, I am only following the contemporary view to its logical conclusion.)