Vancouver Infill & Lowrise Updates Discussion

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by logan5

As for Wesbrook Village, it's still not a place you would see very many people after hours, but at least there was more effort put into the overall design. There is a good variety of materials and colours in the surrounding buildings, and the design treatment of the sidewalks and roadway are of a higher grade than normal. Being on the West Side and in UBC, the standards are much higher than usual. Certainly much better than the Cambie development that brings tacky spandrel glass into the pedestrian realm. And yes, that is urban blight.

I have not hosted an Open House in ages, so hmm from a developer perspective, would the Ellsworth be "urban blight"?

[Anorak]

Originally Posted by giallo

I agree. I lived on 18th and Heather, and loved the lived-in vibe of Cambie Village, but this is the price of progress, unfortunately. The Cambie Village we know and love was never going to survive having a 2 billion dollar skytrain underneath it as land prices have skyrocketed due to the addition. If it's any consolation, we probably won't have to stare at those blank walls for too long. I'm sure another development with a similar height is on the books right next to it.

Another thing that's worth mentioning is that these new developments actually do a lot to save small businesses through more customers. Average household size in Vancouver has been dropping for a while now, so the SFH neighborhoods just can't support the businesses alone anymore.

Look at Point Grey. Despite being directly adjacent to a 50,000 student university the retail there has really been suffering. The Starbucks by the old Safeway just closed, and the Kins did as well a few months ago, to name a couple.

[officedweller]

Yeah, the Canada Line construction showed that Cambie Village doesn't rely on just the neighbourhood residents within walking distance.
WRT Point Grey Village, there are now many competing businesses on Campus, so they too can't survive on just neighbourhood residents.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Commercial height restrictions from outdated District Schedules, YES. This is fixed in rezoning, which many don't go through, but it's also fixed dramatically in the recent C-2 changes before Council now.

Yeah, definitely an improvement!

[rofina]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Cool laneway infill: something that doesn't require a subscription for everyone. I'm biased but my fav is MA+HG's and Smallworks

Love, love, love all those. Love that they exist. Kudos all around - great execution and beautiful design.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think there is a disconnect between what architects want with "clean modern design" and what businesses want with "character".

A restaurant like Tractor may work in a glass and concrete shell, but others wouldn't and many diners don't want to eat in a minimalist setting (think school cafeteria).

Looking at The Heights, many critics would decry the new mixed use buildings as tacky pastiche, but they add character and are occupied.
4365 E Hastings St
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6mze2JQukAjotVXa6

Also see Dubh Linn Gate pub that added stone cladding to the modern glass and brick exterior of the Central office building on Main St.
BC-99A
https://maps.app.goo.gl/FZbPUksyRV318RcW8

I think I recall that in Vancouver, building height restrictions on arterials resulted in claustrophobic low-ceiling'd retail spaces (ie Broadway where Lumiere used to be)

I actually think the new builds along The Heights are some of the best in the region. All very different, all with character, its the closest I can think of to use as an "example" of whats "good."

[officedweller]

Agreed. Many tall ceilings and there's different styles - Mediterranean, mass timber columns, modernist,...

[whatnext]

Interesting the discussion about CRUs. I came across what I consider to be the almost perfect, vintage form on Macdonald and of course they're about to be demolished! And Gryphon's overpriced Westbury is still chugging towards completion across the street.

[IMG]IMG_8323 by whatnextyvr, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_8322 by whatnextyvr, on Flickr[/IMG]

[officedweller]

It was in the news a few years ago about those units, how they were non-conforming uses, and that the new building wouldn't have the same retail space. I would think that has presumably changed.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by rofina

Love, love, love all those. Love that they exist. Kudos all around - great execution and beautiful design.

most of them look nicer than the principle houses.

here's a good look at one

• Video Link

I really like this one

• Video Link

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Interesting the discussion about CRUs. I came across what I consider to be the almost perfect, vintage form on Macdonald and of course they're about to be demolished! And Gryphon's overpriced Westbury is still chugging towards completion across the street.

If anything the Westbury would help the shops across the street as I think it replaced a car repair shop and will add some well-off customers.

So is it the size of the CRU or the aesthetic that makes the Macdonald units so pleasing? Not suprising they would tear it down for a more... "useful" building as currently you can build a larger, taller building.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

If anything the Westbury would help the shops across the street as I think it replaced a car repair shop and will add some well-off customers.

So is it the size of the CRU or the aesthetic that makes the Macdonald units so pleasing? Not suprising they would tear it down for a more... "useful" building as currently you can build a larger, taller building.

Its character. Without knowing a single thing about that row of CRU's I would imagine a series of artisan shops, a nice deli, maybe a niche bike shop.

They evoke a very inviting feeling, no doubt. Great character.

I will say the best example of new build character executed in Metro Van in last decade + is easily;

https://goo.gl/maps/njdnju3fbdpUtLEQ7

The build form is beyond excellent. Scale is great. Brilliant variety - that development should be handed award after award and used as a model for how to build with soul.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

If anything the Westbury would help the shops across the street as I think it replaced a car repair shop and will add some well-off customers.

So is it the size of the CRU or the aesthetic that makes the Macdonald units so pleasing? Not suprising they would tear it down for a more... "useful" building as currently you can build a larger, taller building.

I was thinking the small street front, generous windows (including clerestory) and inset door. It doesn't get any better than that. Perhaps the Edwardian examples were nicer with their higher ceilings but the modern plate glass bland fronts can't compete.

I'm not sure what will take their place though you're right, more housing will be welcome, but it would be nice to see this kind of retro CRU.

As an aside, anyone know why that lost little commercial strip exists? Was there a streetcar turnaround on Macdonald near King Ed?

[GenWhy?]

These are all definitely tricky elements of the business. Again not sure what could prevent a tenant from taking over 3 of 4 CRUs even if they were all designed at 25 wide units. Unless that was a by-law... which seems heavy-handed. I think the recent C-2 commercial height bonus of 5 feet will solve the other items. Types of tenants and aesthetics will unfortunately be up to the whims of the market and architect/developer.

[GenWhy?]

Pardon the spam, but the MIRHP Program is really important for renters. July 9 is the public hearing for a 28-storey rental building on Broadway with 53 income-tied rents.

If you can or wish, write a letter on this project as it goes to Hearing July 9th. If you recall, the Hastings-Boundary ones got a lot of flack for being too tall. MIRHPP units rents are 30% of a persons income and if a person moves out the rent of that unit restarts with a new tenant.

https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applications/2538birch/index.htm

[SpongeG]

this sort of relates

Vancouver city councillor hopes to bring back corner stores
https://www.citynews1130.com/video/2020/...illor-hopes-to-bring-back-corner-stores/

.............


City of Vancouver to explore reviving corner stores in neighbourhoods

Kenneth Chan | Jun 25 2020



Corner grocery stores played an important role in Vancouver’s residential neighbourhoods decades ago, before the prominence of large chain-owned stores and the municipal government’s practice of discouraging new additional businesses.

Most of the corner stores that remain today are in ageing structures, such as Le Marche St. George in Riley Park-Little Mountain, the Federal Store on Quebec Street in Mount Pleasant, the Wilder Snail on Keefer Street in Strathcona, and West Side Market on West 16th Avenue in Point Grey.

These businesses are in structures built a century ago, with the youngest being the 1940-built Federal Store.

...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-corner-stores

[rofina]

The business add excellent vibrancy and character to neighborhoods. They are a great social gathering place, and a pleasure to have in general with their unique character.

I cant see a single reason not to encourage more of this.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by rofina

The business add excellent vibrancy and character to neighborhoods. They are a great social gathering place, and a pleasure to have in general with their unique character.

I cant see a single reason not to encourage more of this.

Other than basic economics.

As quaint as they may be, they can never match the prices of larger chains. Canadians are notoriuosly cheap, look how many will drive miles across town to save 2 cents a litre on gas.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Other than basic economics.

... and that's from the perspective of both the shopkeeper and the customer.

I expect that the vast majority of current corner store owners (typically older people who bought the building and started the business a generation ago) are doing it to keep themselves busy, help customers and neighbours, rather than for making much money. It would be different for someone starting such an enterprise.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Other than basic economics.

As quaint as they may be, they can never match the prices of larger chains. Canadians are notoriuosly cheap, look how many will drive miles across town to save 2 cents a litre on gas.

Sure, I don't doubt that economics of running one of these are tough.

This is all the more reason to have the city stay out of the way. Lets not add bureaucracy where none is needed.

If we have a hope of making it through the next 100 years we need to start actively decentralizing our supply chains.

Mega corporations, mega farms, mega everything will be the downfall of us. We need bio diversity and economic diversity. Too much is going to too few.

As insignificant as it seems, reviving small shops like this is key to community success, to centralize people around small neighborhood gathering points, allowing more resources to remain in the community.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I don't think anybody's naysaying a revitalized local supply chain; what they're saying is it'll likely need outside help as long as the global supply chain still exists alongside it.

You also need people to seriously cut back on consumption, which is a big part of why we need everything done like that in the first place.