Social Housing in Vancouver - The 14 Sites

[SeymourDrake]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

A major blow to the potential health and vibrancy of that end of Granville Street. That area already hangs in the balance. And with an additional homeless building possibly being planned for the empty lot adjacent to this new Howard Johnson homeless project, we could be witnessing the beginning of a second Downtown Eastside. Vancouver's first historic entertainment district (East Hastings) has been destroyed by policy. Maybe Vancouver's second and last is next.

That's a bit dramatic... are they homeless if they have a place to live? If they have mental health issues aren't they better off being accessible in one building.

Some of you make it sound like caring for our most vulnerable part of our population is a bad thing?

That area is not dangerous at all. I walk the streets late at night, bike even more. Never had any problems. I own multiple properties in that area and have never had issues where the police had to be called.

What's more damaging to a Neighborhood?

1. Drug Users
2. Drug Manurfacturers living in $5 Million Condos
3. Homeless
All in the same Neighborhoods

If the area is so bad, why are there not more homeless in Emery Barnes Park? Right now on average there are no homeless people living in this park.

Finally a lot of Granville looks run down not because of the homrless people in the area but because you have a gathering place for Drinking, drug use and organised crime. Add to the fact the buildings are not kept up in a lot of sections along the street.

To say it's could be a 2nd DTES is laughable.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by SeymourDrake

To say it's could be a 2nd DTES is laughable.

and that is what people said about the DTES back in the day. that there was no way it could get worse. and news flash, it is much worse than it was 20yrs ago. by a lot. and that's from someone who used to work down there all the time in the 90s who's been there in the last year.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by whatnext

On the other hand it is two more affordable hotels removed permanently from the room inventory. Short term not an issue, but long term it just continues Vancouver's slide into playground for the wealthy.

And I have to agree with Prometheus, I was at Granville and Davie for the first time in months and the whole area felt much sketchier than before. I'd be curious to see B&E stats for the area.

All of downtown exudes that vibe right now. It's almost like most people that bring vibrancy to the area are working from home now.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by officedweller

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-government-vancouver-hotels-homeless

$430k per room.. wow.

I'm sure they could have purpose built for less. They already have the land.

Ron.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

$430k per room.. wow.

I'm sure they could have purpose built for less. They already have the land.

Ron.

But this provides immediate shelter. As usual with these kinds of assessments, the building is nearly worthless and the value is in the land. Long term I'm sure it will be fine as an investment.

With respect to Granville St, those few blocks haven't really gotten better or worse in the last 20 years IMO. The problem with a "club" district is that it's a drunken mess at night, and a wasteland during the day, as most of the clubs almost board up during the day.

Now a number will probably go out of business.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

$430k per room.. wow.

I'm sure they could have purpose built for less. They already have the land.

Ron.

There are several non-market buildings under construction. There are a few more approved that have yet to start construction. I'm not aware that BC Housing owns any land that they could build on immediately. These hotels can be occupied very quickly, and unlike SROs they each have a bathroom. The Howard Johnson, built as the Hotel Martinique comes with a low-rise component and a vacant site next door that are will be a future development site, so the price per room is less than the total amount paid, divided by the number of rooms. Given current construction costs, the cost for new build probably wouldn't be very much less.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

A major blow to the potential health and vibrancy of that end of Granville Street. That area already hangs in the balance. And with an additional homeless building possibly being planned for the empty lot adjacent to this new Howard Johnson homeless project, we could be witnessing the beginning of a second Downtown Eastside. Vancouver's first historic entertainment district (East Hastings) has been destroyed by policy. Maybe Vancouver's second and last is next.

We don't have to wait. The City has already turned Granville street into one. Wait for it to spill onto Howe and Seymour as well. There are certain pockets around Seymour, Howe and Hornby Streets which are essentially DTES.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-government-vancouver-hotels-homeless

$75mil taxpayer money down the drain. Thank you, Victoria.

Now I can't wait for the sugarcoaters, apologists and bleeding hearts to comment on this.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

$75mil taxpayer money down the drain. Thank you, Victoria.

Now I can't wait for the sugarcoaters, apologists and bleeding hearts to comment on this.

They paid for prime land. It will have value.

Remind me what your solution is again?

[s211]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

$430k per room.. wow.

I'm sure they could have purpose built for less. They already have the land.

Ron.

IIRC, that heritage hotel in the DTES retrofitted as social housing was significantly higher per dwelling unit. Can't recall the name of the project at the moment.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

They paid for prime land. It will have value.

Remind me what your solution is again?

I'm sure many of the City-owned "prime land" in the DTES have value too. Yeah, perhaps in the early 1900s. Granville Street is now DTES, so do you seriously think this is "prime land"? I would call it a write-off.

Solution? Go to the DTES thread to view the discussions.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

I'm sure many of the City-owned "prime land" in the DTES have value too. Yeah, perhaps in the early 1900s. Granville Street is now DTES, so do you seriously think this is "prime land"? I would call it a write-off.

Solution? Go to the DTES thread to view the discussions.

It's land in the downtown core...

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

$75mil taxpayer money down the drain. Thank you, Victoria.

Now I can't wait for the sugarcoaters, apologists and bleeding hearts to comment on this.

Well, assuming Atira Women's Society (the non-profit that will run both of these buildings) only houses women at risk of homelessness... you've essentially just said you don't support 173 new units of social housing for women facing or at risk of homelessness and gender-based violence.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

They paid for prime land. It will have value.

Remind me what your solution is again?

I'm pretty sure his solution was "build a mall".

[s211]

Originally Posted by s211

IIRC, that heritage hotel in the DTES retrofitted as social housing was significantly higher per dwelling unit. Can't recall the name of the project at the moment.

Found it:

https://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Housing/2009/01/07/Pennsylvania-hotel-reopens/

Back in 2009, you could buy a going-concern standard apartment building for far less, on a per-unit basis.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by s211

Found it:

https://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Housing/2009/01/07/Pennsylvania-hotel-reopens/

Back in 2009, you could buy a going-concern standard apartment building for far less, on a per-unit basis.

I know the Tyee swings way left. But do you have evidence of what a standard apartment building would go for?

As the article claims:

(At an average of $326,000 per unit, the Pennsylvania apartments were only slightly more expensive than new construction, and include not only the renovation of the historic façade but also revenue-generating retail and restaurant spaces on the ground floor.

There was also a bunch of upgrades, wheelchair accessibility, etc.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

All of downtown exudes that vibe right now. It's almost like most people that bring vibrancy to the area are working from home now.

And then there's this yesterday. Great advertisement for coming downtown!

Nearly-naked man climbs on car in downtown Vancouver intersection
DH Vancouver Staff|
Jun 25 2020, 1

A semi-clothed man made it difficult for a driver to make a left turn at Granville and Davie recently by climbing onto the hood and roof of the vehicle.

In a video posted to Twitter Wednesday, the shirtless man whose pants are also riding low can be seen jumping on the hood of a dark blue SUV while the driver honks at him.

The man kneels on the hood for a few seconds and slaps the windshield before climbing onto the roof of the car...

...“The 30-year-old man appeared to be high on drugs and was acting erratically and aggressively toward patrons passing by,” she said.

Officers detained the man under the Mental Health Act and brought him to a nearby hospital, Visintin said...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/naked-man-car-intersection

[s211]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I know the Tyee swings way left. But do you have evidence of what a standard apartment building would go for?

I no longer have the data, as this goes back to 2008-9. At the time, I seem to recall a decent quality going concern rental building was $200-$250K a unit. That could be off, but I remember a huge delta between market and what they paid per unit to renovate.

AND the reno project more expensive than new construction, which supports an even greater delta for an existing building back then.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by s211

I no longer have the data, as this goes back to 2008-9. At the time, I seem to recall a decent quality going concern rental building was $200-$250K a unit. That could be off, but I remember a huge delta between market and what they paid per unit to renovate.

AND the reno project more expensive than new construction, which supports an even greater delta for an existing building back then.

The Pennsylvania restoration was more expensive per unit to complete than buying an apartment building because it was a heritage building that was in a poor state. Part of the restoration re-constructed the long lost witches hat roof, for example. You can argue that public agencies shouldn't buy up heritage hotels and restore them, but there have been many more acquired and completed over the years since then, as it has remained a BC Housing priority to carry out a high quality restoration, rather than a cheaper quick fix.

These days apartment buildings cost more like $500,000 a unit or more in Vancouver, [like this for example] but buying those buildings doesn't help solve homelessness as they're usually fully tenanted. A cursory look suggests there are very few buildings currently available in the market

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

They paid for prime land. It will have value.

Remind me what your solution is again?

If they had zoned up the West End, they'd have plenty of room to trade monetary CAC for social housing. Same thing with the Cambie Corridor.

Shame that the property next to it, 1186 Granville St, wasn't part of this deal. Would actually allow for some redevelopment.