The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by someone123

Well your location says Vancouver, that one is directly taken from the BLM Vancouver demands, and you say you have never read it before, or somehow missed it.

I am not sure how we could come up with a better, more objective example of not being informed.

Well, their demands don’t say that “Black criminals can only be judged by blacks; black patients treated by black hospitals with black staff.”

Either you’re making that up or interpreting their words in some unclear way.

https://blacklivesmattervancouver.com/vancouver-dismantle-systems-of-violence/

[someone123]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Well, their demands don’t say that “Black criminals can only be judged by blacks; black patients treated by black hospitals with black staff.”

That one was from CHAZ/CHOP. But it is good that you're now googling and reading the platforms of the groups you have claimed to support for a while.

I would gently suggest that if you read a number of these platforms, it's clear that somebody might be against racism yet not be 100% supportive of the demands of all of the activist groups (which are not consistent enough for it to be possible to meaningfully support all of them). So it makes perfect sense for there to be debate about which demands are good or bad. Such debate need not be driven by white supremacy or white fragility.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'll match you that and raise you with an "all white people are racist".

It's amazing how you can't see that you are a radical ideological zealot, who accomplishes nothing more than pushing people away, and harden opinions. But, then again, maybe that is your intent, because, after all, if an accommodation could be reached, then you would have nothing left to rail against.........

I’ll raise you that with “all people are racist when they have been raised in a white supremacist state”. Because it is white supremacy, the power and the problem then falls under the main responsibility of white people.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by someone123

That one was from CHAZ/CHOP. But it is good that you're now googling and reading the platforms of the groups you have claimed to support for a while.

I would gently suggest that if you read a number of these platforms, it's clear that somebody might be against racism yet not be 100% supportive of the demands of all of the activist groups (which are not consistent enough for it to be simultaneously possible to meaningfully support all of them). So it makes perfect sense for there to be debate about which demands are good or bad.

Ok so you were lying or wrong and now making a baseless claim that that means I hadn’t read their platform? What a convoluted joke.

As for your second point, I agree. The nature of that debate, however, is not sheltered from racial issues, such as denial and inability to listen to the marginalized groups most affected.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

And cue the All Lives Matter..

It's always been my innate position, even before I vaguely learned recently that there does exist somewhere a movement called that. It's crystal clear that it's the only way to attain a colorblind, non-racist society someday.

When people insist on continued segregation, they're contributing to making society MORE racist, not less.

Say we're discussing any societal change, for example, the eventual introduction of an UBI. You think the best way is to have Black Canadians vocally support a movement called UBI For Blacks whose goal is to have the government introduce a special UBI only for Canadians with black skin? I would totally oppose that for the exact same reason I greatly prefer ALM to BLM. If an UBI is a good thing, then push for an UBI, not for UBI + Racial Segregation.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Ok so you were lying or wrong and now making a baseless claim that that means I hadn’t read their platform? What a convoluted joke.

Ehh. You quoted lio who quoted the BLM Vancouver one (which Pavlov posted). It's there in the thread if anybody cares enough to look.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

That one was from CHAZ/CHOP. But it is good that you're now googling and reading the platforms of the groups you have claimed to support for a while.

And it was discussed in this very thread, and I think dreambrother808 might even have replied to it at the time, I'd have to check... (I recall for sure he was active in the thread then, so in any case, for someone who keeps insisting that others should "inform themselves", he's not exactly impressing me...)

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by someone123

Ehh. You quoted lio who quoted the BLM Vancouver one (which Pavlov posted). It's there in the thread if anybody cares enough to look.

You’re making even less sense now. I quoted Lio on a claim that you said is one of BLM Vancouver’s demands. I said it wasn’t. You now say it was CHOP instead.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by lio45

And it was discussed in this very thread, and I think dreambrother808 might even have replied to it at the time, I'd have to check... (I recall for sure he was active in the thread then, so in any case, for someone who keeps insisting that others should "inform themselves", he's not exactly impressing me...)

And here come all the tactics to smear and exhaust. What a display of moral vacuity.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's always been my innate position, even before I vaguely learned recently that there does exist somewhere a movement called that. It's crystal clear that it's the only way to attain a colorblind, non-racist society someday.

When people insist on continued segregation, they're contributing to making society MORE racist, not less.

Say we're discussing any societal change, for example, the eventual introduction of an UBI. You think the best way is to have Black Canadians vocally support a movement called UBI For Blacks whose goal is to have the government introduce a special UBI only for Canadians with black skin? I would totally oppose that for the exact same reason I greatly prefer ALM to BLM. If an UBI is a good thing, then push for an UBI, not for UBI + Racial Segregation.

This is essence is my issue with this leaderless movement. I want true racism to be greatly reduced, but that does not come with special privileges for some that "hit the birth lottery". Special rights for some based on genetics is not the ways to go (we already have a failed experiment of this in Canada). Equality of opportunity is something to strive for not mandates and segregation. I am a white guy so you know, take my opinion with a grain or salt, but I have lived for some time in areas where I was the minority (south America and presently working in the far north.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

You literally said that the status quo is working and that the problem is no racism but militarization.

Yes. And the facts indicate that this is true.

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I pointed out on previous pages where you presented clearly racist ideas about pre-Colombian Indigenous people. If you don’t want to be called racist, don’t act like it.

It's racist to call human sacrifice savage? You sure you want to keep digging?

If it makes you feel better, I would also characterize the Japanese brutality in Nanking in 1937 and the Holocaust as savage as well. Actually, who wouldn't? And Columbus parading the dead bodies of the natives in the Dominican on the streets? Savage as well.

Thing is, though, all war is savage. There is a clear difference between savagery during war and ritual savagery like human sacrifice.

But sure...I'm the racist.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

You’re making even less sense now. I quoted Lio on a claim that you said is one of BLM Vancouver’s demands. I said it wasn’t. You now say it was CHOP instead.

The one demand that Pavlov and someone123 discussed (and that I quoted as an example of something idiotic that even "ally" Pavlov admits is idiotic) is from BLM Vancouver. This was always super clear.

I added two other examples of Official BLM Idiocy (they're from Seattle, as mentioned) to illustrate why I dismiss them as unhinged nuts not worth listening to.

Similarly, if you want to convince me that Canada has to work on generational inequity, if you are seriously demanding that all Boomers get arrested and guillotined and their wealth given to Millennials, don't be surprised if I don't listen and dismiss you as an idiot, even if the situation you're fighting is something that I agree should be addressed.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

And it was discussed in this very thread, and I think dreambrother808 might even have replied to it at the time, I'd have to check... (I recall for sure he was active in the thread then, so in any case, for someone who keeps insisting that others should "inform themselves", he's not exactly impressing me...)

Yeah, I'm not normally one for the "gotcha" style thread archaeology but dreambrother808 is unusually uncharitable in how he interacts with other forumers.

If I'm going to be called a racist or liar I'd like to at least get the easily-confirmed facts somewhat straight.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by lio45

If you started something like All Lives Matter and had ideas that weren't crazy ("abolish the police"), then I'd likely be on board.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Also, I don’t know who’s been bitchmoaning about the Seattle CHOP, but those three shootings were all by white supremacists.

I'm shocked. Shocked.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by someone123

Yeah, I'm not normally one for the "gotcha" style thread archaeology but dreambrother808 is unusually uncharitable in how he interacts with other forumers.

If I'm going to be called a racist or liar I'd like to at least get the easily-confirmed facts somewhat straight.

You guts are literally inventing your own fantasies. The denial of the psyche is powerful when threatened.

I’m so mean when I say someone is racist for saying something racist. Oh poor guys...

The “rules” in your mind are almost... parliamentary.

[bolognium]

i can't believe people are still responding to dreambrother

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Yes. And the facts indicate that this is true.


It's racist to call human sacrifice savage? You sure you want to keep digging?

If it makes you feel better, I would also characterize the Japanese brutality in Nanking in 1937 and the Holocaust as savage as well. Actually, who wouldn't? And Columbus parading the dead bodies of the natives in the Dominican on the streets? Savage as well.

Thing is, though, all war is savage. There is a clear difference between savagery during war and ritual savagery like human sacrifice.

But sure...I'm the racist.

I’ve already explained what was racist but keep living your fantasy.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm shocked. Shocked.

Precisely proving the point that when "the police gets abolished", then it's much easier for any opportunist to shoot anyone else for any reason...

You don't see how the fact that in a short-ish time frame there already were several shootings in the police-free zone proves our point regardless of who shot who and motive?

Google "1969 Montreal Police Strike" and get back to me, I'm curious to see if you'll still think it's a good idea after you learn it's been tried even in the Land of No Second Amendment.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

And here come all the tactics to smear and exhaust. What a display of moral vacuity.

Wait, it's possible for you to get exhausted? We should be so lucky...

Friendly Advice: if you want your experience in this thread to result in something positive, what you should do is go see your BLM Vancouver buddies and explain to them that you had interactions with a diversified sample of highly educated Canadians of at least upper middle class, you know, the sort of people you typically need on board when you want political change in this country, and that their reaction to your current approach was very unfavorable, and you should probably re-think it.